Tennis brand razors - need help deciding

After decades of trouble shaving, finding DE razors has helped tremendously. I've decided, why not try a straight now? Since I've been playing tennis longer than I've been shaving and I love the sport, I'd like to pick up a Tennis brand razor.

Someone from wicked_edge was nice enough to respond to my WTB post and give me first dibs on the butterscotch razor pictured. At the same time I'd had my eye on an auction for the other razor with the darker scales. I've got til Wednesday to decide on which, or maybe wait for a 6/8 best quality Dovo to come in stock at Straight Razor Designs.

So far I'm thinking:

1. 5/8 Butterscotch Tennis - I like that it reads "Tennis" on both the scales and blade. However, there is a crack near the pin you'll notice on the picture of the back view. There is rust on the pins and a good bit on the blade. It does come with a fresh hone and vouched for by someone that's gotten compliments from other W_E posters. It would cost me 75 shipped.

2. (9/16?) Darker scaled Tennis - This one looks like it's had the scales replaced. The only place it reads "Tennis" is on the shank. There is alot of rust on the tang and some on the spine, but otherwise it looks like the cleaner razor. This one is an auction, so I'm not sure where the price will end up.

3. 6/8 new Dovo best quality - I've heard that 6/8 is a little easier to strop and a half hollow has a little extra weight which makes newbies like myself slow down when shaving. This would be 120 shipped along with a standard strop, the initial hone and another certificate for a hone in the future.

So, I know much of this is personal preference, but I also know I know little to nothing about straight razors. So, could you help me with a few words of which you would get and why? The popular answer is to get them all, of course, but I'm trying to control the SRAD with a single purchase. I'm also curious when Straight Razor Designs might have the best quality Dovos in stock, if anyone has a guess.

No matter what razor I end up with, I'm looking forward to learning as I did with the safety razor - should be fun.

I really like Tennis razors, but I personally would not spend that much for the first, and I would not recommend a razor as small as the second for a new shaver.

Note: I'm not saying the price for the first is out of line, nor am I saying its not worth that much. I'm just saying I wouldn't spend that much on it.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I really like Tennis razors, but I personally would not spend that much for the first, and I would not recommend a razor as small as the second for a new shaver.

Note: I'm not saying the price for the first is out of line, nor am I saying its not worth that much. I'm just saying I wouldn't spend that much on it.

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I did start out with a $2.55 Chinese safety razor, then upgraded to a $37 R89. Are you thinking along the lines that I should try it out first to figure out what I want before the investment, or is there actually a risk of damaging the straight razor as a newbie?

Is Larry's $28 flawed razor more along the lines of what you're thinking for a first or where else might I look to purchase?

Nope. It's just a bit more challenging to handle a narrow razor; on your face, on the strop, and on the hones. A thinner blade makes it harder to watch the angle; a narrow tang means the blade is more likes to rotate accidentally in your hands. While not major difficulties, I see no reason to stack the deck against a new shaver. I usually recommend 5/8-6/8, leaning toward the larger end of the range.

As for Larry's razors - I have never dealt with him, but I personally would never buy anything I have never seen. Whether you would or not is up to you.

In that case, does anyone know the likelihood that Straight Razor Design may get the best quality Dovo 6/8 back in stock in the coming weeks or anywhere I could get a deal close to that good? I see others with the razor about the same price, but none with a free hone, not to mention a 2nd free hone certificate. That seems like a deal to good to pass up on a new first razor.

I've got to say I'm still thinking about those Tennis razors though.

I have only heard good things about Whupped Pup razors. Keep in mind the old saying "You get what you pay for" There is a reason those razors are that cheap. They are as claimed. "Whipped dogs" I see nothing wrong with trying one out its a small gamble, and unless I am mistaken, he offers a return policy (somebody correct me if Im wrong)
Tennis razors were a hot item a few years ago, kind of like Friodurs are today. I do think a new shaver should go with a 5/8 or 6/8 though.
Have you checked the classifieds on here?

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Originally Posted by Magpie

I have only heard good things about Whupped Pup razors. Keep in mind the old saying "You get what you pay for" There is a reason those razors are that cheap. They are as claimed. "Whipped dogs" I see nothing wrong with trying one out its a small gamble, and unless I am mistaken, he offers a return policy (somebody correct me if Im wrong)
Tennis razors were a hot item a few years ago, kind of like Friodurs are today. I do think a new shaver should go with a 5/8 or 6/8 though.
Have you checked the classifieds on here?

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Well, I mailed Larry recently and he mailed right back saying he'd keep a lookout for a Tennis for me. I've browsed the recent classifieds here, but haven't really dug through them. I guess I should put up a WTB post here as well. I'd go ahead and pick up that butterscotch 5/8 if it weren't for the crack in the scales and the rust on the blade. I'm wondering how much it's cost to have it fixed up as good as new. Anyhow, I see on auction sites that the Tennis brand pops up every week or so. I'd much rather buy from a respected forum member though.

Tennis Razors are very nice shavers. I still have a couple and won't part with them. Something about The Pre Dovo ones that is very special.

Your call on junk razors that will shave or something you want to own and take pride in.

There is a razor out there for every individual, depending on your budget and mindset. When I was 21 and had to find my first razor and it was a definite had to after a great barber shop shave, I didn't have much money, but I wanted a razor just for me and went to a Chicago Cutlery store and bought one new. Still have it today and that was 40 years ago.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Tennis Razors are very nice shavers. I still have a couple and won't part with them. Something about The Pre Dovo ones that is very special.

Your call on junk razors that will shave or something you want to own and take pride in.

There is a razor out there for every individual, depending on your budget and mindset. When I was 21 and had to find my first razor and it was a definite had to after a great barber shop shave, I didn't have much money, but I wanted a razor just for me and went to a Chicago Cutlery store and bought one new. Still have it today and that was 40 years ago.

Have fun.

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Being new to safety razors, I've enjoyed my Mühle R89 so much the last couple months. It's new and shiny and has done wonders for my shave. While browsing for a replacement to my homemade scuttle, I found an antique shaving mug for my dad. I knew he'd be in town and made a spur of the moment purchase since my daughter calls him Papa and it was inscribed on this cool looking mug. I gave him an Ecotools brush and half a tube Bigelow (Proraso) and he said it was the closest shave he'd ever had in his life. This shaving business can be more than just the utilitarian job of scraping off hair, that's for sure.

Update: Larry at Whipped Dog already found me a Tennis that I think I'll be happy with. It's another 5/8 with a blade that has never been honed and will leave me with a little more budget for the strop. Hopefully I'll learn about how to clean it up as well as I hear the rust on the blade is not fully developed.

p.s. If you like the butterscotch razor it will probably be posted soon over on Wicked_Edge if you are looking to buy. The seller has gotten some nice compliments on honing ability so it should be ready to go.

As I said! That one would be in my junk drawer but I hope you enjoy it.

Sounds like you got the schpeil and drank the koolaid.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

As I said! That one would be in my junk drawer but I hope you enjoy it.

Sounds like you got the schpeil and drank the koolaid.

Have fun.

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Nah, I got just what I was looking for - a Tennis that will clean up nicely and comes honed for under 50 bucks. To me, koolaid drinking means spending more than I want. Shaving my beard off for upcoming interviews since I'm about to wrap up a 2 year certification internship was my motivation to start safety razor shaving. I'll find the perfect shaver sometime after I'm working again and can afford it in a few months. In the meantime, I get to start straight shaving with something that performs well.

Having fun is key. I absolutely agree with you there. I can't wait to try shaving my neck with a surgically sharp blade using my left hand. Now, that sounds like fun!

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Originally Posted by RADisorder

Nah, I got just what I was looking for - a Tennis that will clean up nicely and comes honed for under 50 bucks.

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You can clean that razor up, but it won't "clean up nicely." Those big black areas are what gets left behind when active, red rust is removed. The black is a different kind of rust, often referred to as devils spit. The name comes for two reasons. It is harder to get rid of than red rust, and it always leaves pitting behind. If you get rid of the black, you'll have pitting. You can't get rid of the pitting, because there isn't enough steel on a full hollow blade. Pitting casts shadows into itself, making it look like devils spit, so even "cleaned up," it'll look about the same. Not to mention that cleaning will almost certainly dull your edge (it's just too hard to clean a blade thoroughly and not damage the edge), so you won't want to do that until you are confident in your honing or willing to send the blade out.

In other words, if would be a shame to practice cleaning and honing on a blade that is such a nice shaver, but she'll never be a looker. She's a solid, workhorse shaver (like a work truck Glen would never sell :-) ), but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

You can clean that razor up, but it won't "clean up nicely." Those big black areas are what gets left behind when active, red rust is removed. The black is a different kind of rust, often referred to as devils spit. The name comes for two reasons. It is harder to get rid of than red rust, and it always leaves pitting behind. If you get rid of the black, you'll have pitting. You can't get rid of the pitting, because there isn't enough steel on a full hollow blade. Pitting casts shadows into itself, making it look like devils spit, so even "cleaned up," it'll look about the same. Not to mention that cleaning will almost certainly dull your edge (it's just too hard to clean a blade thoroughly and not damage the edge), so you won't want to do that until you are confident in your honing or willing to send the blade out.

In other words, if would be a shame to practice cleaning and honing on a blade that is such a nice shaver, but she'll never be a looker. She's a solid, workhorse shaver (like a work truck Glen would never sell :-) ), but that's about it.

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Ah, that's a little disappointing as I was thinking the blade would clean up. I won't mess with it. That red stuff on the tang area might clean up though, right?

Red stuff comes off easy. Underneath you'll find more black stuff.

(If razors could all be cleaned up easily, the seller would just do it and sell the blade for more. Seeing the phrase "she'll clean up real easy" or any variation thereof in for sale ads is a pet peeve of mine. Note no one who actually restores razors ever says that.)

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Red stuff comes off easy. Underneath you'll find more black stuff.

(If razors could all be cleaned up easily, the seller would just do it and sell the blade for more. Seeing the phrase "she'll clean up real easy" or any variation thereof in for sale ads is a pet peeve of mine. Note no one who actually restores razors ever says that.)

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I don't think Larry gave that type of sales pitch. I mailed him asking for a Tennis and he looked through his stock and couldn't find one. He kept looking and found one two days later. What I thought about restoration was my own assumption. Here is what he said,

"The razor is a 5/8 round tip. The scales and pins are in good shape, there is good friction when closing, and the blade has never been honed.

The blade is stained as you can see in the picture. It is oxidation, rust, but I hesitate to call it rust. Stain is a better description. The reason I say that is that the metal to the touch is perfect. You cannot feel any difference in the texture of the metal as you feel the blade. If it was fully developed rust, you could feel a rougher texture, or something that was tactily different."

Even though I can't make it the prettiest thing, I'm still excited to get this as a first razor. I didn't expect it to be perfect for so cheap and it seems like a great one to get me started and beginning to learn about straights. When I found that awesome deal for a new one with hones from SRD I considered it but they were out of stock and probably just as well as it would be stretching my budget. Besides, as someone who has benefited from playing the sport most of my life, there is something cool about owning a Tennis brand razor. No buyer's remorse here. I'll find a beauty of one another day if straight shaving works for me.

Anyhow, I've learned so much about safety razor shaving from Wicked_Edge, I'm looking forward to finding out more from SRP.

That comment of mine was in no way directed towards Larry. It was just a general comment.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

That comment of mine was in no way directed towards Larry. It was just a general comment.

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Good. Just wanted to be clear that I'm very happy with his service since I chose a razor in question, sold by him. Thanks again for the comments. I've found the wet shaving communities to be very helpful. I'm sure there are some unscrupulous folks out there, as with anything, but I haven't bumped into them yet.

Oy!

Freebies for Luv man!

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Oy!

Freebies for Luv man!

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Hah, you are good. I watched one of your Stroptober videos today. It's so nice to have all this info readily available. 10 or 20 years ago the average Joe wouldn't have access to so many easy to understand guides such as these. And don't forget my above posts. I've been singing your praises on honing with razor policy and will continue to do so. It's a good thing you didn't have the best quality 6/8 in stock or I'd have stretched my budget and bought it.

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Originally Posted by RADisorder

The blade is stained as you can see in the picture. It is oxidation, rust, but I hesitate to call it rust. Stain is a better description. The reason I say that is that the metal to the touch is perfect. You cannot feel any difference in the texture of the metal as you feel the blade. If it was fully developed rust, you could feel a rougher texture, or something that was tactily different."

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In the restoration forum we call it 'rot'.

The fact that you can't feel much difference between metal and the black just means that the corruption of the blade is happening underneath the surface, where it will make an ugly big hole that is pretty much impossible to fix, once it breaks the surface. Kinda like a festering splinter underneath your skin.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

In the restoration forum we call it 'rot'.

The fact that you can't feel much difference between metal and the black just means that the corruption of the blade is happening underneath the surface, where it will make an ugly big hole that is pretty much impossible to fix, once it breaks the surface. Kinda like a festering splinter underneath your skin.

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Got it. What would the difference be, if anything, between rot and patina?

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Originally Posted by RADisorder

Got it. What would the difference be, if anything, between rot and patina?

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Both are types of metal corrosion. However, steel that has accumulated a thin coating of corrosion, ie a 'patina', over many years is not the same as metal that has corrosive pits in it. In fact the thin patina acts like a protective layer - it is stable, and with moderate care the blade will last for many, many years to come. With pitting we have corrosive elements or particles that attach at random intervals to the steel blade, forming small differences in potential between themselves and the underlying layer (blade) that spreads both outwards and downwards, as Bruno said it oftern travels just under the surface and when the surface is abraded pits are revealed that are more extensive than first thought.

You could call the bad stuff an 'unstable patina' that gives rise to pitting. The following gives an idea of the electro-chemical processes involved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=d0LUB90uDaE

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Both are types of metal corrosion. However, steel that has accumulated a thin coating of corrosion, ie a 'patina', over many years is not the same as metal that has corrosive pits in it. In fact the thin patina acts like a protective layer - it is stable, and with moderate care the blade will last for many, many years to come. With pitting we have corrosive elements or particles that attach at random intervals to the steel blade, forming small differences in potential between themselves and the underlying layer (blade) that spreads both outwards and downwards, as Bruno said it oftern travels just under the surface and when the surface is abraded pits are revealed that are more extensive than first thought.

You could call the bad stuff an 'unstable patina' that gives rise to pitting. The following gives an idea of the electro-chemical processes involved:


Regards,
Neil

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I like how the video shows how quickly a razor can begin to rust if exposed to water. I'm don't know much about knives, but I vaguely know some people do a forced patina to bring in the protective concept you mentioned.

It's fun looking around the workshop forum. There is so much new info there for someone like myself and even if I don't get into restoration much of it seems like stuff any vintage razor buyer would want to know. Depending on the cost of tools/materials I think this might be something I'd want to tinker with though. I'd love to be able to better select a great Tennis restore from auction pictures one day. Thanks for the response. I know all the info is out there, but for someone brand new the back and forth can help with the learning curve.

Between shaving with a straight for the first time and looking through the workshop forum I've got plenty to keep me busy.

Also, patina is extremely thin - you can't actually feel it - and more importantly: it is pretty even along the entire surface. I've created patina on new razors / knives by just dipping them in Ferric chloride, then rinsing them under running water and drying them thoroughly. The patina protects the surface. And esp on kitchen knives this can be a good thing.

As soon as you see distinct spots or pits, we're no longer talking about patina (which by definition is a surface phenomenon) but about rot. And as with rot in vegetables, what you see on the surface is often a lot more benign than what goes on inside. I've restored razors that had those black marks on the surface. the fact that you can't feel anything special is irrelevant. Because as soon as you start sanding or scratching, you remove the thin surface layer and you find an ugly blackpit that can be very deep and wider than the surface spot.

It's kind of like ripping the scab of a festering sore.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Also, patina is extremely thin - you can't actually feel it - and more importantly: it is pretty even along the entire surface. I've created patina on new razors / knives by just dipping them in Ferric chloride, then rinsing them under running water and drying them thoroughly. The patina protects the surface. And esp on kitchen knives this can be a good thing.

As soon as you see distinct spots or pits, we're no longer talking about patina (which by definition is a surface phenomenon) but about rot. And as with rot in vegetables, what you see on the surface is often a lot more benign than what goes on inside. I've restored razors that had those black marks on the surface. the fact that you can't feel anything special is irrelevant. Because as soon as you start sanding or scratching, you remove the thin surface layer and you find an ugly blackpit that can be very deep and wider than the surface spot.

It's kind of like ripping the scab of a festering sore.

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What you cleared up for me here is the distinction that patina usually covers the entire surface.

My first razor should arrive in the mail probably today or tomorrow. I'm wondering if I do not have that scab ripped off eventually, how long the blade will remain smooth to the touch? I know it depends on the razor.

I've been maintaining my safety razor with alcohol after use. I've got a screwtop plastic container and I'll loosen the blade, then swish it around before it goes in the medicine cabinet. I don't think the alcohol damages the razor head, but dries it and the blade. This may not work for straight razors (dry out/damage scales?), but is just a thought I'm having considering the rust problem.

I imagine the towel dry for the straight razor blade and paper towel for scales is sufficient, but wondering if anyone maintains with alcohol in any way as well.

In any case, it looks like understanding rust is one of the keys to razor maintenance and restoration.

Pics and info about Rust - vs - Patina This really shows in pics what Dylan was trying to explain to you in post #13



http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...ml#post1097633


What is the Difference between Black rust or Spider rust and the truly malicious stuff we fondly call Devil's Spit ????

The feel,

if you run yer fingernail over Black rust you can feel the damage, Devil's spit is smooth to the touch it reveals itself as you start to clean it up and you learn that the "Stain" isn't... This is how it recieved it's name

Gotta love the Tennis razors. I sold a very minty one here on the classifieds as it was just not getting the use it deserved and it freed up some room for a stone I was looking at. Regardless of which one you pick, good luck with it!

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Pics and info about Rust - vs - Patina This really shows in pics what Dylan was trying to explain to you in post #13



http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...ml#post1097633

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Nice restoration work!

I've always had some idea of what patina looked like, but I think I got confused by references to it on what looked like rusty razors on various forums. Occasionally posters outright misidentify patina and other times it is referenced in a picture where you don't really see it easily or it may be buried underneath. I really like this post in "The Rustiques Club" thread. That thing really had some grey/silver/shiny/depth underneath the red, didn't it.

Thanks again to all of you guys who restore for posting. As I'm getting interested in tinkering with honing/polishing/sanding/restoration, I realize there would be about zero chance I'd follow up if it were not for this forum.