Interesting Razor, questions

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Good evening folks. This razor found me on ebay last week. It needs a little restoring but seems to be pretty sturdy. I'm trying to make sense of the "story" of a straight razor like this. The scale, as you can see have some numbers and letters on it's front side. In my very young time as a straight razor enthusiast I've never come across writing like this on the scale. It doesn't appear to be advertising the brand or anything of the sort. On the blade there is "B & M smoke & chew" etched on. The tang has "B. Payn's Son's tobacco Co. Albany, NY" etched on one side. The other side has "K & Co M.I. Germany" etched on. The box has seen better days but reads both "B. Payn's Son's tobacco Co. Albany, NY" and "B & M Tobacco The best to smoke and chew UN***MALE" written on it. All I know is that the individual I purchased this from inherited it from their grandfather who passed away in 1926.

I'm trying to figure out the connection between the tobacco companies and the straight razor. Was this a common item sold by the tobacco shops? Was it possibly a promo item? And I also am curious about the numbering/letters on the scale. If anyone has some insight it would be appreciated. History Buffs help me out if you can.
Thank you,
RoLLo

Probably promotional. Lots of different "tobacco" razors out there. The scales denote a "service razor" I believe. Shortage of steel in wartime ment that any servicable razor left was branded such for soldiers. The blade may not be original to the scales. Most of the scales I have seen like this have English, not Geman blades

Hi Rollo, and welcome to SRP.

I don't have a definitive answer, but rather a suggestion. It could be a military-issue razor, and the numbers on the scales the regimental number (or equivalent) of the person it was issued to. :shrug:

EDIT: Tom's quick! :)

In the first half of the 1900s many tobacco companies issued coupons with their tobacco products, much like S&H stamps etc. These coupons could be redeemed for a wide line of products, including straight razors. Following is a photo of a razor produced for the Red Devil Tobacco Co.

Regards - Walt

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/r...vilTobacco.jpg

Wow you guys really dropped some knowledge on me. Thanks you for all the information.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Probably promotional. Lots of different "tobacco" razors out there. The scales denote a "service razor" I believe. Shortage of steel in wartime ment that any servicable razor left was branded such for soldiers. The blade may not be original to the scales. Most of the scales I have seen like this have English, not Geman blades

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Interestingly enough, the owner who passed away in 1926 was an Englishman who immigrated to the US. But I don't think that would explain the German blade. I presume we're talking about WWI?

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

Hi Rollo, and welcome to SRP.

I don't have a definitive answer, but rather a suggestion. It could be a military-issue razor, and the numbers on the scales the regimental number (or equivalent) of the person it was issued to.

EDIT: Tom's quick!

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Any idea how to read the numbers/letters? I may find the time to trace it back a bit more. Again, we're talking about WWI correct?

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Originally Posted by Walt

In the first half of the 1900s many tobacco companies issued coupons with their tobacco products, much like S&H stamps etc. These coupons could be redeemed for a wide line of products, including straight razors. Following is a photo of a razor produced for the Red Devil Tobacco Co.

Regards - Walt

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Very interesting, maybe a sub genre I would consider collecting. Thanks again to all three of you. And any more suggestions or information is appreciated.

So, you REALLY know who the owner was who passed away in 1926? An Englishman who immigrated to the U.S.? I would then say WWI. Could be other English service, for certain, for many decades (as the scales go).
Some research into this man would yield much. As far as I know, this practice was from the British forces. I cannot say otherwise. The history of such pieces is unknown, for the most part. However, if regiments and other units can be pinpointed to a certain cadence in the numbers, the travels of the razor during their military tenure can be recorded, and scratched in names(sometimes present) can also pinpoint individuals.
A Challenge!
Tom


My 4000th Post!

Thats a sweet looking razor, like Sharptonn mentioned i think the scales dont go with the razor, but they are cool also. The blade with K & Co was a trademark of the Kastor Co in Nyc, makes sense since they were made for an Albany Ny vendor.


A. KASTOR & BROS
New York City
Trademarks used: "Imperial Razor Company", four-leaf clover, "XLNT", "K & Co GERMANY", and others
About 1901, Kastor & Bros purchased the Camillus Knife Company of Camillus, New York. They changed the name in 1902 to the Camillus Cutlery Co. In 1947, the name Kastor was dropped completely, although they are still in business as Camillus.
ca. 1876 - 1947


Honestly its easy for me to like this razor because Albany is 20 miles from me, and you dont see many of these around, Enjoy!
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Tracing the owner of such things is certainly possible, but as Mr 4000 posts (congrats!) says, it might take some leg work.

Not too long ago someone posted pics of a WWI razor whose scales had military marking similar to this one. See here for example: http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...restoring.html

If anyone has any suggestions as to what "2 CL" stand for, I think the rest would be relatively straightforward.

Thanks again for responding. The person I bought it from stated their grandfather, the owner was an Englishman who came to the US around 1900 and passed away in 1926. Being that the blade is engraved by a Tobacco store in Albany, NY I would assume that it was not brought from England. Which brings me back to your 3,999th post stating that the blade may not be original to the scales. hmmm

Wow, two posts while I was writing this

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Thats a sweet looking razor, like Sharptonn mentioned i think the scales dont go with the razor, but they are cool also. The blade with K & Co was a trademark of the Kastor Co in Nyc, makes sense since they were made for an Albany Ny vendor.


A. KASTOR & BROS
New York City
Trademarks used: "Imperial Razor Company", four-leaf clover, "XLNT", "K & Co GERMANY", and others
About 1901, Kastor & Bros purchased the Camillus Knife Company of Camillus, New York. They changed the name in 1902 to the Camillus Cutlery Co. In 1947, the name Kastor was dropped completely, although they are still in business as Camillus.
ca. 1876 - 1947


Honestly its easy for me to like this razor because Albany is 20 miles from me, and you dont see many of these around, Enjoy!
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Wow, that's very helpful. I live about 35 miles east of Albany. That's what drew me to it as well. The ebay seller is located in Albany and still has another Albany razor for sale.

Well, if it is true he came about 1900, then it (the scales) would seem to indicate British forces prior? For certain the blade seems later installed. Should have a heavy wedge from Heiffor or Reyolds in them, IMO (Kind of a sacrilige, I suppose! :) The Brits had many campaigns the world over back in the mid to late 1800's......:hmmm: It is beginning to sound like the old guy had a new blade installed in his favorite scales!

Wow, I am amazed at how quickly you folks answered my questions. You also answered my questions that I didn't even have yet.

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Originally Posted by rollopac187

Wow, I am amazed at how quickly you folks answered my questions. You also answered my questions that I didn't even have yet.

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It's Martin.....he has that effect! ;)