Printable View
Hi All,
A lot of the books we read mention the importance of quality tools for success in shaving. For example, the first line in Chapter one of the following:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...asyw0020th.pdf
While we all agree with that advice, it got me to thinking I've never actually used a poor quality vintage razor and don't even know the name of any makes.
Do you? If so, can you tell us anything about the companies?
I'm sure poor quality vintage brands exist but they would be more rare since 'way back when' straight razors were more of a necessity than a novelty. So, they were tools that had to work. These days there are countless entrepreneurs that capitalize on the droves of men who enter this hobby, not armed with knowledge and not armed with a proper budget and they make razors that look perfectly good but are about as effective as a butterknife.
When it comes to vintage razors the primary concern will be condition.
Here's a good starting point
Brands of Straight Razors to avoid - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
Yeah, I looked at that page some years ago, but got the impression they were mostly new makers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natz
Back in the day people took pride in their work and I don't think you will ever find a poor quality vintage razor. Customers would never stand for it. I'm sure there were some defects but they would have been returned. Back in those days new razors were really shave ready. We live in a disposable world and settle for junk and poor quality. That was not the case years ago.
I remember reading an old barber manual which indicated Frederick Reynolds razors were considered low quality.
We should be so lucky to have such good low quality products today.
England and Germany both produced decidedly inferior goods during the heyday.
In Sheffield, there was an ongoing issue of poor workers producing razors and knives from iron bars in order to try and pay rent (to work in a Sheffield factory, the employees had to pay the factory owner and buy all their own tools and materials).
I'd guess that most of the badly or actively deceptively made items simply haven't survived because they were so poor. That said, I do regularly see Pakistani razors that're obviously 15 or 20 years old being sold as antiques.
Further up the quality chain are makers like I. Barber, or the many, many Rodgers (Rogers) families. They traded on having a name close to a more famous maker, and their goods probably weren't up to the same standards. But time has winnowed the wheat from the chaff there, too. Outright inferior razors were probably just thrown away. And even their 'knockoffs' were made to be useful tools. The corner cutting would've mostly been in the quality of the scales, level of polish, and/or complexity of the grind.
Also Frameback's were considered cheaply made razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
Darn! My favorite razor is a Fredrick Reynolds.Quote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
Not that I'm an expert on vintage anything, but nowadays, a guarantee means next to nothing. Back in the heyday, it did. To be sure, there are still a few companies today that stand behind their products (Dillon reloading presses come to mind), but in days-gone-by people took you at your word and if you didn't hold to it, you found yourself out of business.
My personal favorite slogan from the razor manufacturers was Genco's: "Genco razors must make good, or we will."
Something tells me that the few times people took them up on that promise, they weren't disappointed. If they would have been, I don't think Genco would have grown to be the largest US razor manufacturer.
You can look up the congressional hearings from the 1930s I believe on import tarifs. There is some discussion about inferior quality razors imported from Germany. We've talked about these in the past, but I don't have the time to look up the threads.
As far as personal experience, I've seen poor quality vintage razors. Of course, it depends on what you consider as quality, but poor grinds, mediocre edges both qualify for me.
A lot of the early 19th century sheffields are not very good either - even if they have survived without abuse the steel doesn't take a good edge. Of course, there are exceptions and I love them but the technology back there just wasn't up to snuff.
Old Sheffield and solingen steels can't compare to modern steel. Although the vintages are very nice, if I had to take one and only one into the woods, I would take my modern TI.
I don't know, I haven't been big fan of modern steel other than some customs. I keep getting c135 TIs, probably gone through close to 10 of them and it never did anything for me. I still have a silverwing or oakwing, and may be about 15 vintage and pre c135 ones. That's why YMMV.
For the woods I'll probably get one of my nice sheffields or heljestrands.
If I can take only 1 razor to the woods,,,well I guess that means I'm not coming back,,,so give me the most steel I can carry, a Sheffield full wedge. After the shave starts to pull,,,I'll just quit shaving with it & use it to fillet trout or clean squirrels with it. :beer2:Quote:
Originally Posted by bill3152
The talk of the old Sheffields got me thinking of the model of 1903 Springfield rifles that blew up receivers during WWI. They found that the armorers, tempering by eye rather than utilizing a pyrometer, were getting widely varying results depending on whether it was a sunny or an overcast day. While they had pyrometers back in the mid 1800s I would bet that the guys working in some of the cottages, even with some of the bigger firms, went by eye rather than by the gizmo.
When you get past the early 1900s, certainly after WWI, when Gillette and the DE was really popularized, I think the majority customer for straight razors were the professional barbers. Those guys quickly separated the wheat from the tares. If a company made razors that were substandard, for the primary customer base, word would spread quick IMO. So the quality had to be up to a high standard if the company was going to survive. In the 1980s, when I used to go around to barber shops in Northern N.J, looking for old straight razors, individual barbers, in their 60s and 70s, cutting hair and shaving for 50 years, told me that their favorite razors were dubl duck, FWE and that any Solingen razor would be a good one. Sheffields too, they said. This is guys from one end of Newark to another who didn't know each other.
Other than customs the only modern razors I have experience with are quite a few TI, a couple of Dovo, and a Ralf Aust. These are high quality and some are as good as any vintage razor I've had. In general I've only run across a few duds in my pursuit and I'm not always sure if that was me or the razor.
I
Perhaps you have to define poor quality ????
If you define it as "Will it take and hold an edge fine enough to shave with" then I have found very very few poor quality Vintage razors, and those could have been abused over the years to get there...
If you start to get a bit more technical, and start to define poor quality, in grinds, warps, etc: then things begin to change...
Well, I posted a link as the source of what I was asking. Here's the first chapter:Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
"First-class tools are necessary at the very outset. No matter how skillfully one may handle inferior tools, they will invariably produce poor results. Probably as many failures have resulted from the use of poor razors,
strops, or soap as from the lack of knowledge how to use them.
In order that the best possible results may be attained, good tools and skill in using flicni sliould go hand in hand.
The shaving outfit should consist of one or two good razors, a first-class strop, a mirror, a cup, a brush, a cake
of shaving soap, and a bottle of either bay nnn. witch hazel, or some other good face lotion. These constitute what
may be considered the necessary articles, and to these mav be added a number of others, such as a good hone, magnesia or talcum powder, astringent or styptic pencils, antiseptic lotions, etc. wdiich. while not absolutely requisite, will nevertheless add much to the convenience,, comfort and luxury of the shave."
And the author continues to mention it throughout the book. I think I've come accross the advice in most older shaving manuals, which is why I started thinking there must have been a lot of dudd razors floating around. In this case, I assume he means they won't take or keep an edge, or have been rushed through production. (The only vintage razor I used which I thought fitted the bill was a W&B chopper. It had a warped spine, so honing was fun, and the edge never seemed good past one shave. Perhaps that explains why it was given to me. But that was one particular razor, not a make.)
Thanks for all the info guys, I've enjoyed reading.
I have also read the same...
BUT
I also put no more weight to those old books then I do to opinions presented right here everyday, they are after all simply one person's opinion..
I do however put quite a bit of weight to my own personal experience from honing and restoring 1000's of Vintage Razors, sometimes I want to say that the bad ones have been weeded out over the years... NOS razors however temper that response, I do remember some razors that hit the market a few years back NOS that many people across the forums still brag about, yet fully 30% of them had serious steel issues in the heel..
Yet if I were to type the name the response would be "I own one and mine is great"
Take any opinion with a large grain of salt and decide for yourself
keep in mind we here look at our razors as these exalted instruments to be treated with the utmost of respect and kept in tip-top shape. For the masses in days gone by razors were common items looked at like a pencil often times abused and not properly maintained. You had to have more than one because there was a good chance eventually the poor care caught up with them.
Speaking of how the average guy might have treated a razor back then ..... Here is are a couple of ads Martin103 posted in another thread ..... two bucks and if you're not satisfied after awhile, send it back and Shumate will exchange it for another ....... Imagine a current straight razor mfg with that sort of policy. Or if your beard is 'extra wiry' for $3.00 you can get one 'specially ground for that purpose.'
Attachment 134046 Attachment 134047
Yes, shumates are definitely not 'poor quality' no matter how you judge them :)
I had one of those curvy ones and gave it as a present. No current manufacturer can touch that quality of grinding at the bargain prices you can find them on ebay.
How about "Capacity 10,000 Razors Daily" - I don't think Dovo, TI, Boker, Henckels and Revisor combined don't have this capacity at the present days.
Thanks, Jimmy. Some interesting points there: you can use it for years without honing. Quite a claim. And only real men use curved blades!
