What is the double edge learning curve for an experienced straight shaver?

Yo - safety razor experts. How long does it take to master DE technique? I do three straight passes in under 20 minutes and can barely justify a shave 18-24 hours later having spent 10-months to refine my straight technique where I felt I was doing a very good job. My prep is working, lathers are excellent, always a DFS/BBS in three passes without irritation. No razor burn or regular hints of an aftershave facefire. I've been running almost nick free for many months and finally feel comfortable answering Mrs. Moos morning questions while shaving.


Out of curiousity I got an open comb Merk 1904, stuffed it with an Astra and had several very good shaves the first week out. I quickly found the angle, removed whiskers with razor weight only and got smooth without drama. I got a little better each time. Thing is, with a straight (or a Rolls) I have a morning shave and no five o'clock shadow; when I shave at night I'm always good for 18 hours. With the DE, I can feel (and see) stubble within 12-hours. And the stubble feels pretty sharp-like. So, the shaves are very good, quick and easy but not especially long lasting.


Is this a time/technique issue, a too-mild razor issue, a blade issue or all of above. Or will a DE just not shave everyone like a straight? This isn't downside DE dissing or a deal breaker - just wondering. I probably have interest enough to try one more type of safety razor if the 1904 is just too mild for magical results. I know Feather blades and the Muhle R41 and Gillette adjustables are often recommended as height of the art.

So, before I make any changes, how long should I give the Merk to learn the game?

Great post. Similar experience here.

I picked up an SE and a DE not long ago. I shaved with what I was told was an aggressive SE. Like a duck to water. A boring 3 passes later and I was done. A very nice shave, quick and boring, though. Enjoyed the novel factor of it all. I would have tried the DE a while ago, but I'm in the throws of BHAD and have embarqed on a 7 razor series set of test... so, the DE has collected dust. I did note that the angles between a DE and an SE are definitely different. I went out and watched a video, just to be sure.

I also noticed that the stubble came back far more quickly than with my trusty straights.

Here's an informative link to some of the DE blades out there:

Choosing the Right Blade

I don't know the answer to longevity of results straight versus DE because I've never paid any attention to it. I'm only mentioning that to clarify why I am not going to address that point. I will say that I have extensive experience in shaving with many DEs and the Merkur 137C or 139C slant was my absolute go to DE until I picked up a used Ikon slant at a reasonable price. Feather blades are my choice but, as we all know, YMMV on that. Just my 2 bits.

Edit; should the above influence the OP to pick up a slant I would recommend the Merkur. The Ikon is very expensive and adjusting the blade exposure from one side to the other is a PITA compared to the Merkur. The ends of the blade are not exposed on the Ikon as they are on the Merkur. So the Merkur is easier to adjust the exposure using the ends, and it is much more reasonably priced since it is not stainless steel.

To start with I can never understand how a shave will last 18/24 hours as I have never been able to duplicate that with any type of razor. The best I can muster is 10/12 hours with either a straight or DE. I* guess everyones stubble grows at a different rate.

That said I would guess that the more aggressive a razor is the closer longer lasting the shave will be. Factor in a different blade and that might help too. That would be the easiest route to explore first by getting a sample pack of DE blades and see if a feather will get you a longer lasting shave in your 1904 than the Astras will. If that does not work you could try a Muhle R41 or slant. For me the Muhle R41 will definitely run with the straights for longevity of shave so either the Muhle R41 is a very good DE or I am just crappy with my straight razors technique.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

To start with I can never understand how a shave will last 18/24 hours ... everyones stubble grows at a different rate.

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A friend of mine recently grew a full beard over three months I couldn't have equalled in six.

So, I read the same as you and Jimmy say about the R41 and the slant as top performers. At this point, you'd say my difference is choice of razor/blade over technique?

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Originally Posted by MisterMoo

At this point, you'd say my difference is choice of razor/blade over technique?

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That would be my guess but only a guess. Try different blades first and if that alone improves the longevity of the shave you'll know it is not your technique holding you back.

Bob

1904's considered a relatively mild razor.

I've never worried about the BBS timeframe. Even if I shave with a bazillion passes and have a perfect BBS at 6am: I can feel stubble well before noon*.


*disclaimer: I did have a straight razor shave by a "pro" with a shavette where I did not shave for a week following. It burnt so badly and irritated my face so much that I think my facial hairs were terrified to show themselves. I never want to go through that pain again.

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Originally Posted by SpikedLemon

*disclaimer: I did have a straight razor shave by a "pro" with a shavette where I did not shave for a week following. It burnt so badly and irritated my face so much that I think my facial hairs were terrified to show themselves. I never want to go through that pain again.

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My first experience in 1971 as well; never been duplicated.

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Originally Posted by BobH

That would be my guess but only a guess. Try different blades first...

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I figured to work my way through the samples with an eye toward ending with the Feathers.

@JimmyHAD - the many WCS reviews on the Merkur Slant are remarkably similar. 5-stars...

I think the samplers is the way to go. By the time you are done the issue of technique vs equipment should be answered. As a straight razor shaver you will have less bad habits to overcome. Ending with feather is right too. I love the feather razor, alas I cannot get through a shave without a knick or a weaper. I have settled on the Astra as my best razor. YMMV.

As for the interesting question of which saves closer straight or DE my straight shaving is coming along slowly and I have yet to get it as close as the DE. I'm glad to hear your straight is so close a shave. I was beginning to get worried. But you give me renewed hope that my skill will come and I'll get the shave I am looking for!

RFM

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Originally Posted by ShaveDude

I think the samplers is the way to go. By the time you are done the issue of technique vs equipment should be answered. As a straight razor shaver you will have less bad habits to overcome. Ending with feather is right too.

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Thanks for that.

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...I'm glad to hear your straight is so close a shave. I was beginning to get worried.

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Getting it right isn't exactly an overnight thing. I had an easy start but it still took a long while to get relaxed and consistent. Safety razors are certainly less of a challenge for very good results.

Regarding the Merkur slant versus the R-41, I only know the Muhle by reputation. Reading experienced DE shavers saying they had to approach it with the same caution and focus they use for a straight caused me to ask myself if I needed yet another DE. So I don't know about the R-41 and I'm not likely to try one in the future. I've tried about all of the Gillettes from the 1903 double ring, I used to have the whole set from '03 to '06, to the Red Tip Super Speeds and Fatboys of the 1950s and '60s. I've still got Big Fellows, Aristocrats, and other TTOs and 3 piece Gillettes that I've shaved with. A Barbasol and some other odds and ends.

A helluva lot of Slants, branded and no-name, and tried them all. So the Merkur was the top dog until the Ikon came along. I've only had 3 shaves with it so I want to give it a few more and then go back to the 137C before I commit to say the Ikon is the winner.

But I digress, all of that blather is just to say that I have a lot of experience shaving with the contraptions, instead of a 'real' razor that folds into the scales. My favorite might be the worst one for you or vice versa. Just like with the blades, a sampler pack is the best way to go. DEs and blades optimize YMMV, just IMHO.

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Originally Posted by MisterMoo

Thanks for that.


Getting it right isn't exactly an overnight thing. I had an easy start but it still took a long while to get relaxed and consistent. Safety razors are certainly less of a challenge for very good results.

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I think that sums up the difference that I experienced .. fast start with the DE after some years with carts (I started shving in the early 60's with a Gillette Adjustable) and maybe two-three months to get really good, satisfying BBS with the DE. Same for the Injectors. I have been "training" with the straights for 5 or 6 months, still slow and not there yet.

Thinking maybe the difference is that the DE/SE motion is ingrained even with a cartridge, unless you have been using a buzzer, but the motion and the moves with the straight are foreign to prior experiences

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

the Merkur 137C or 139C slant was my absolute go to DE until I picked up a used Ikon slant at a reasonable price. Feather blades are my choice but, as we all know, YMMV on that. Just my 2 bits.

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+1 To JimmyHAD's comments
Have not had a chance to try the Ikon, but I do have the Merkur and teamed up with the Feather (YMMV) I can get a good, but not Straight quality, shave.

For comparison with the Straight and a very early AM shave I do not need to re-shave for an "event" in the evening.
With a Cart I do.
With a DE it depends, but I can get by with the slant, not with with the Weber or Super Speed (the older, non-flair Super Speeds are excellent all around TTO DE's BTW)
SWMBO is very tuned in to the scratchiness factor and when we travel together and I use a cart she is the first to note the diff.

The skill part of DE Shaving is really figuring out which razor is best for you and then which blade to use in it. After that it's knowing the right angle and to lay off the pressure. It's way simpler than the straight but not to be taken with a grain of salt. We see plenty of posts from guys who try DE's and have terrible results.