So, what IS shaving anyway?

Since I always shave with a double-edge razor, I chose this subforum to discuss my thoughts on shaving.

So, what IS shaving anyway? Basically, it is the use of a very specialized knife to cut hair off one's skin. (BTW, I shave only my face and neck, nowhere else). The knife itself, a.k.a., the blade, is a very, very sharp, thin device held in a specialized handle. The purpose of the former is to cut the hair cleanly at its juncture with the skin -- but nothing else. The construction of the handle determines the amount of knife blade that is exposed and the angle at which it cuts the hair. While blade dimensions are standard, handle dimensions are not.

Without discussing handle materials or quality, manufacturers decide the optimum blade exposure and angle that results in the best hair removal. There is, of course, another factor that figures into the equation: the human. Shaving with a double-edge razor is a skill, i.e., a learned art. The person must learn the proper angle at which to hold the razor head against the skin, the pressure applied to the razor, and both the length and direction of the cut.

Here are my personal thoughts...

The angle at which to hold the razor head against the skin is the easiest to learn. If both the upper and lower edges of the razor head contact the skin evenly, the blade will cut at the angle intended by the manufacturer. I have found that the best way to achieve this is to use a slight(!) amount of pressure while holding the handle loosely. If the handle is held to tightly, it is easy to change the angle intended by the manufacturer to an "incorrect" one. Personally, I let the razor determine the best angle by holding the handle loosely (with just enough grip to keep it from dropping).

Learning the correct stroke is not as easy. The stroke must be at a right angle to the blade without sideways movement. Unlike a conventional knife, where the cut moves along the length of the blade, a DE razor stroke must not go in a sideways direction -- or an unwanted cut may result. The blade movement MUST be at exactly 90^o to the edge! This is the part of the technique that is most difficult to learn.

The length of the stroke is not important as long as the correct angle and the correct stroke direction are both maintained. I find that my stroke length is longer while shaving my cheeks and shorter while shaving my neck. As long as I can maintain both the correct angle and direction of the stroke, I don't worry about the length.

So, those are my thoughts. You can have an interesting time thinking about them the next time you are shaving.

What are your thoughts? What IS shaving anyway?

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Originally Posted by Barbudo

Since I always shave with a double-edge razor, I chose this subforum to discuss my thoughts on shaving.


Learning the correct stroke is not as easy. The stroke must be at a right angle to the blade without sideways movement. Unlike a conventional knife, where the cut moves along the length of the blade, a DE razor stroke must not go in a sideways direction -- or an unwanted cut may result. The blade movement MUST be at exactly 90^o to the edge! This is the part of the technique that is most difficult to learn.

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That would leave out using the "Gillette slide technique" and it does not explain slant razor DEs.

Bob

I have never heard of the "Gillette slide technique", but reading about it makes me glad that I never have. It sounds dangerous!

Secondly, I think that slant razor DEs are marketing hype. I don't think that they cut any more efficiently than conventional DE razors, since the blade length (which does the actual cutting) is the same length (or very close). If there was any real advantage to a slant, [U]every[U] manufacturer would make one and conventional DEs would be hard to find.

The principle is based on the guillotine, but the guillotine is designed for one cut of a single object (a human neck) which has a lot of resistance. Razors cut human hairs, which are significantly different! :rofl2: They are much, much thinner and offer very, very, very little resistance.

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Originally Posted by Barbudo

I have never heard of the "Gillette slide technique", but reading about it makes me glad that I never have. It sounds dangerous!

Secondly, I think that slant razor DEs are marketing hype. I don't think that they cut any more efficiently than conventional DE razors, since the blade length (which does the actual cutting) is the same length (or very close). If there was any real advantage to a slant, [U]every[U] manufacturer would make one and conventional DEs would be hard to find.

The principle is based on the guillotine, but the guillotine is designed for one cut of a single object (a human neck) which has a lot of resistance. Razors cut human hairs, which are significantly different! :rofl2: They are much, much thinner and offer very, very, very little resistance.

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Well, it might sound dangerous and likely could be if you were sloppy or inattentive with your technique. I use it daily on my throat and can say it is very effective.

You can suppose all you want about how effective a slant razor is and whether it is all just hype. Until you try one you really don't know.

Bob

To me shaving is a ritual and sometimes a necessaty .

Did I spell neccesaty right? LOL

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Originally Posted by 32t

.

Did I spell neccesaty right? LOL

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I would say not. My spell check is on the fritz so I must reword some things. Things I can spell!

I use the slide when i shave my neck also. And yes, with a DE.
And IMO Ive never found the Slant razor to make my shave closer, faster. So I gave up on them after buying a few of them.

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Originally Posted by BobH

Well, it might sound dangerous and likely could be if you were sloppy or inattentive with your technique. I use it daily on my throat and can say it is very effective.

You can suppose all you want about how effective a slant razor is and whether it is all just hype. Until you try one you really don't know.

Bob

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If slant razors are so effective, why are the GREAT MAJORITY of DE razors [U]not[U] slant style? Marketers will sell whatever the market demands, and clearly regular DE razors far outnumber slant razors.

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Originally Posted by Barbudo

If slant razors are so effective, why are the GREAT MAJORITY of DE razors [U]not[U] slant style? Marketers will sell whatever the market demands, and clearly regular DE razors far outnumber slant razors.

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My only point is that you are assuming something without having tried a slant razor. You have not verified your assumption by having used a slant and that is fine if that suits you. Don't expect me or others to take that as gospel. I have and have used slant razors. I have found them, for my use, to be as effective as non-slant razors.

The whole shaving thing is very much a ymmv game where something works for one person and not another.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

My only point is that you are assuming something without having tried a slant razor. You have not verified your assumption by having used a slant and that is fine if that suits you. Don't expect me or others to take that as gospel. I have and have used slant razors. I have found them, for my use, to be as effective as non-slant razors.

The whole shaving thing is very much a ymmv game where something works for one person and not another.

Bob

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My assumption, as I stated earlier, is that conventional DE razors are what the majority of people use, judging by the amount that are offered by the vendors. If slant razors were better they would dominate the market. "Just as effective" doesn't prove anything.

I am basing my thoughts on a) having shaved my face for more than 65 years with a variety of razors and b) being a knife collector, I am aware of just how cutting something with an edged tool works. I am not asking you or anyone else to take my thoughts as "gospel". I simply believe that cutting hair from one's face with a direct downward force (as opposed to a slanting force) is all that is necessary, which is why the great majority of safety razors sold are conventional style. If you think that slant razors are as effective as non-slant razors, fine.

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Originally Posted by Barbudo

If slant razors are so effective, why are the GREAT MAJORITY of DE razors [U]not[U] slant style? Marketers will sell whatever the market demands, and clearly regular DE razors far outnumber slant razors.

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Dammit, do I have to throw away all my straights and only DE and go buy a 5-blades-cartidge Gillette whateverthefad (TM) ? Am I that mistaken? They vastly outnumber both DE and straights after all. That must be true.

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Originally Posted by BobH

The whole shaving thing is very much a ymmv game where something works for one person and not another.

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That's the gospel to which I adhere

I have no opinion regarding the rest of your editorial, since I do not feel much included in these definitions of shaving, except for the "sharp specialised blade to remove the hair without removing the skin"

But then again, in my case it's less about hair, blade and technicalities (that's what I do when I'm NOT shaving) and more about having a pleasurable time taking care of myself and my manly needs. (*)(**)

(*)Priming for greasy jokes intented, keep them as edgy as your razors folks
(**)I mean except for the 10mn after you stop the car and before you get inside, it's the only real "me time" a grown man has

[QUOTE=Aggelos;1984111]Dammit, do I have to throw away all my straights and only DE and go buy a 5-blades-cartidge Gillette whateverthefad (TM) ? Am I that mistaken? They vastly outnumber both DE and straights after all. That must be true.


That's the gospel to which I adhere

<snip>

DE means "double edge", which is the type the discussion is about. It's not relevant if many people use multi-blade plastic razors (which BTW give a very good shave)

Alright, so to sum up the answer to the question "What is shaving anyway" is
- using a DE, since this is the DE section which talks about shaving, and specifically not a slant, which are inferior since there are fewer of them. Is using an open comb shaving, or do I have to use a closed comb ?
- loosely hold the handle so that the blade rests at the correct angle as intended by the manufacturer
- whatever the length of the stroke, it has to be perpendicular to the blade

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So, those are my thoughts. You can have an interesting time thinking about them the next time you are shaving.

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Alright, color me impressed and educated, thank you for your insight, have a nice day

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Originally Posted by Barbudo

...(which BTW give a very good shave)

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Speak for yourself.

Yep, can't imagine there would any forums about shaving if it were true!
People want better than that.

You know, at one time (in modern history) everyone used a straight razor and most hated it but that's the way it was unless you wanted a full hair effect. Then Gillette invented the DE with disposable blades and folks never looked back at straights (present company excluded). Then they invented electrics and in most upper strata countries they reign supreme (but not the U.S). Of course then they started improving things and they came out with slants and better single edge and double edge razors.

So, you pick your poison and adapt it to your own individual needs. What works for one may not work the same for others. My technique may give you a terrible shave. That's why I guess I have a drawer full of De razors and straight razors.

Yea the destination is a great shave but the route to get there is where the fun is like any great journey.

So you were a convert from the new DE days, Spendur?

I knew you was old but.....;)

The disposable blades shave great. I have just taken to once a week, going through al my blades.
A week's worth for myself would bend a few DE's, I swear these Sheffields are multiplying!

Germans coming soon! :tu

To ask the question "what is shaving?" is like asking "Why is there air?" I can't believe that I'm responding to this nonsense!

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Originally Posted by Johntoad57

To ask the question "what is shaving?" is like asking "Why is there air?" I can't believe that I'm responding to this nonsense!

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Yes....'Tis a silly thread

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Originally Posted by Johntoad57

To ask the question "what is shaving?" is like asking "Why is there air?" I can't believe that I'm responding to this nonsense!

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Depending on your trade.

From what I have seen your trade has been the military. I can see where a clean shaven face would be important to you.

To lots of others around the world it isn't such a big deal or not wanted.

Shaving is sooo passé! Hardly anyone I know is clean shaven.

I asked ChatGPT to generate an image in the spirit of Magritte's "ceci n'est pas une pipe".

The damn thing told me that shaving goes against content policies. I wanted to be snarky once again, but that is the most fsckd up thing.

I'm shocked, gentlemen, shocked beyond words.
First a nobody tells me I was wrong all along.
Then a computer tells me shaving is a political issue.

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Shaving is sooo passé! Hardly anyone I know is clean shaven.

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intersting. things cycle

We are an ntersting group.

When I say intersting I settle down and ihope you underdstsand I love you all

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Originally Posted by 32t

intersting. things cycle

We are an ntersting group.

When I say intersting I settle down and ihope you underdstsand I love you all

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When I was younger the saying was "never trust a man with a beard, he's hiding something" or "beardy weirdy"
Now practically everyone has a beard or at least stubble.

Fashion comes and goes, heck the mullet is back with a vengeance!

You know, in 1698 King Peter in Russia ordered all court officials to shave their beards and Alexander The Great ordered his soldiers to shave off their beards and in 1531 King Francis of France proscribed beards period.

Throughout history being clean shaven was the way it was like it or not. What does this all mean? Search me, In 800 in England if you shaved you were fined 20 Shillings.

Just be thankful for modern times and free choice.

......Beardy weirdy. Always expanding the old vocabulary! :D

It's anarchy, I tell you, everybody and their neighbour doing insane things.
We're in the era where some people have draw on beard like the eyebrows some ladies have been sporting for years.

Is using de-make-up lotion shaving anyway?

As for beard/no-beard through history, it can somehow be linked to some sort of reason most of the time, outside of "acquired taste" or "fashion".

Alexander the great asked for his men to be clean shaven for practical and tactical war-time reasons.
First, in a scuffle a beard can be pulled. Hence it stands to reason to cut or trim it.
Then having an army of clean shaven men is a psychological advantage at that time, because of the sheer uncannyness of having seemingly pre-puberty fighters in ranks in front of you.

The catholic church has been trying to defend a "uniform" since the VIth century, but as religious people will do, there was debate between the letter of the law ("people from the Church should not be like pagans and let their hair grow") and it's interpretation ("it's ok if it's cleanly trimmed then ?")

Due to that, sporting a beard fell from grace until François 1er actually brought it back in fashion (and not the contrary).
Here the reason was a flaming log to the jaw (people knew how to party hard back then) which left a scar, and having a beard hid said scar.

And since kings and queens make fashion... (I mean there's a colour named "caca Dauphin" which actually is the color of a baby's poop and was all the rage around the French revolution)

On the other hand, at the same time, in the holy roman empire, why would people hide such strong and manly features ?
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Originally Posted by Barbudo

What are your thoughts? What IS shaving anyway?

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As I long-ago learned, shaving is "progressive stubble removal". To which I would add "performed in a methodical and deliberate manner."

The rest is "commentary".

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Originally Posted by 32t

Depending on your trade.

From what I have seen your trade has been the military. I can see where a clean shaven face would be important to you.

To lots of others around the world it isn't such a big deal or not wanted.

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I can only add one thing. If you don't shave your face, your gas mask doesn't seal properly! I'm ruined, aren't I?

Is this a trick? I feel like this is one of those things like Socrates chumping people who think they're smart or something...

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You know, in 1698 King Peter in Russia ordered all court officials to shave their beards and Alexander The Great ordered his soldiers to shave off their beards and in 1531 King Francis of France proscribed beards period.

Throughout history being clean shaven was the way it was like it or not. What does this all mean? Search me, In 800 in England if you shaved you were fined 20 Shillings.

Just be thankful for modern times and free choice.

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Well don't forget what Mosaic Law says: "You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard." LV 19:27

Also the Romans were clean shaven because to them growing a beard was for savages. In fact the word "barbarian" comes from the latin word "barbarus" meaning hairy. Barber comes from the same root.

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Shaving is sooo passé! Hardly anyone I know is clean shaven.

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Well, I guess that you don't know many people. Hardly anyone that I know is not clean-shaven.

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Originally Posted by Aggelos

Alright, so to sum up the answer to the question "What is shaving anyway" is
- using a DE, since this is the DE section which talks about shaving, and specifically not a slant, which are inferior since there are fewer of them. Is using an open comb shaving, or do I have to use a closed comb ?
- loosely hold the handle so that the blade rests at the correct angle as intended by the manufacturer
- whatever the length of the stroke, it has to be perpendicular to the blade


Alright, color me impressed and educated, thank you for your insight, have a nice day

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I agree with you totally. I use a conventional DE razor -- actually several -- and have no need for a slant type. We're just cutting hair after all.

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Originally Posted by Barbudo

Well, I guess that you don't know many people. Hardly anyone that I know is not clean-shaven.

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Really? Maybe it's an English or age thing. I'm 45 and only one of my friends is clean shaven. The building site I am currently working on has about 100 blokes, I think there's only 2 of us that shave. Everyone else has either a beard or stubble.

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Really? Maybe it's an English or age thing. I'm 45 and only one of my friends is clean shaven. The building site I am currently working on has about 100 blokes, I think there's only 2 of us that shave. Everyone else has either a beard or stubble.

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My take is that it is not just an English thing but an age thing. Older generations tend to be clean shaven and younger one not so much. I think the break line is about 50 years of age.

Bob

I've always looked at it as a social thing. Upper class business type...clean shaven.

The rest is what it is, a choice. I've chose to never shave off my stache, again. Once was enough. Looked like a skinned rat. :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by BobH

My take is that it is not just an English thing but an age thing. Older generations tend to be clean shaven and younger one not so much. I think the break line is about 50 years of age.

Bob

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Yeah, most of the blokes on site are not English :) Definitely an age thing.