1 Shave with a DE and I'm ready to quit... Help!

I've been shaving with a SR for almost a year and switched to the SR because of razor burn from traditional razors. Literally, from that day on 95% of my razor burn disappeared.

About 2 months ago, I figured I try a DE. After some research, I went with a brand new Edwin Jagger DE-89 and some Feather Black blades. After researching technique, I prepped and followed the technique for my first shave.

I have never had razor burn like that in my life. The redness and sting took almost four days to go away. Additionally, I had approximately 15 ingrown hairs on my neck the day after that shave.

Since then my DE is sitting in a drawer collecting dust.

Is a DE just not for me? Any suggestions?

I tried a couple DEs a couple times and had similar results to what you explain. I think in my case, I just didn't prep well, and did not have decent blades.

However, I concluded that DEs were not for me. I simply had no passion for them unlike my straights.

I'd suggest that if you really want to shave with a DE, there is a combination out there that you will like, but you might need to do a little experimenting.

Feather blades are wicked sharp. You might want to try a more mild blade before you give it up. If you have a Wal Mart near you, go grab a pack of Wilkinson Sword blades and give them a try. It will set you back a whopping $1.79 for 10 blades at my local wally world.

Also, blade angle and pressure are very important, along with a good lather. You should have a good handle on lathering and prep, but I felt it's important to tell you that it is just as important with a DE as a straight.

Any idea of where Derby blades fall into the sharpness scale? I got a pack as a bonus, but never tried them.

I hate them. Like shaving with a steak knife, but YMMV and all that... Some folks love them.

Come on now. Imagine for a moment that one of your lackeys came in and said I tried to make this really cool advertisement and I hated it after the first try!! It was the worst marketing attempt I ever made! What would you tell him?

I can only echo the fact that angle and pressure along with a good lather are just as important with a DE as with a straight. When I shave with a DE the only difference is that I am using a DE not a straight, everything else is the same. I get very similar results with either. OTH I have never used a DE-89 or Feather blades either. Dialed my Gillette Fat Boy in on Astra SPs and never felt the need to experiment. Possibly trying different brands of blades might help too.

Bob

DE's are just as sensitive to angle and pressure as SR's, possibly even more so due to the nature of the blades. If you have a good blade/razor combo, keep your angles consistent and pressure at zero you should be able to tame the beast. You literally have to let the weight of the head do all the work for you. If you are getting burn it's almost always due to technique. If you're getting ingrowns it's because you aren't paying attention to growth patterns and are cutting hairs below skin level.

If it sounds like I'm crapping on you, I'm not. I was plagued with all the usual problems back in my cart days, which was promptly cured when I switched to a straight. I picked up a DE further down the road and it's been all good since. I attribute my success to my straight shaving skills.

I would tell him "D@MN YOU LACKEY, WORK HARDER AND MAKE ME MORE MONEY!"

Seriously though, try the Derbies since you have them. Some people like them, don't rely on my experience alone. And focus on angle and pressure. NO pressure!

That is the set up I DE shave with except I use feather platinum blades. It was a Bugger at first very rough at first. I have to almost try to skim the razor across my face especially my neck. Those are the sharpest dang blades ever. After a while now I have the angle and the pressure down I can shave away. You can do it, use no pressure none and see how that works.

I tried feathers and still have not tried them again. Face hated the experience. I have used other blades w/o issue-Wilkinson's, Merkur, Gillette, Derby and some others. I want to try the feathers again but they scare me.

:tameshigiri:

Oh yeah, post 666

:rock:

You should try a less deadly blade, like a Derby, or Astra. Feathers have some animosity to them, not for beginners. Trust me, I have scars to back up my claim!

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Originally Posted by Silents

Any idea of where Derby blades fall into the sharpness scale? I got a pack as a bonus, but never tried them.

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They're probably the dullest of them all, but I like them, they work for me. It's like shaving with a Feather that you've used 3 times already. :)

I personally like the Derby blades when I use my DE. Feathers are my first choice than Derby's. Derby's are lot milder than the Feathers, you might just want to try them on your next shave. Good Luck!!

I have recently been in the same state of frustration as you. Same razor. I was trying too many variables. I settled on a standard hot water prep, AOS pre shave oil, Trumper cream, Jagger brush, Wally World Wilkinson Sword blades, and considerably lightened my touch. Alum and Thayers. Things have improved. I have used Derby blades and am not a fan. I have no SR experience, but in my case it was the operator and not the equipment. Maybe a less aggressive blade will serve you better.

I have no doubt that most of my issue is operator error. Im just looking for a more forgiving blade to help this operator on his journey to becoming proficient. Thanks to everyone that responded.

Silents,

Shaving with the double edge razor can have its many pleasures. To begin with, you have an excellent razor. The Edwin Jagger DE 89 is as sweet as they come. Obviously, as you and others have noted, your problem is mostly technique. The blade cannot be ignored either. Let me add my thoughts:

1. Economize your strokes. In other words, don't go over the same spot multiple times, because you are asking for razor burn. Do one stroke per spot and move on. Don't forget you have several passes, I assume three for you, to take care of that spot.

2. Beware of your angle. I shave at an approximately 20-degree angle. Obviously this various from spot to spot. Still beware of your angle.

3. Pressure is a killer. Keep it light. Don't forget, the straight and the DE shaves share many similar characteristics.

4. Stretch. No, not everywhere, but in most places on your face.

5. Avoid shaving against the grain. Some skins cannot tolerate against the grain.

6. Finally, find a milder blade. The Feather is a great blade, but it is not for everyone. Try Polsiver Iridium blades, Gillette 7 O'Clock "SharpEdge," Perma Sharp Super or Personna. The Personnas are not as sharp as the others, but they are mild and sweet blades.

Don't give up on your DE razor. It can come in handy. I shave about 98 percent of the time with the straight razor, but I am still fond of my DE razor, and especially of the Edwin Jagger.

I've only tried wilkinson sword and Astra sp blades in my EJ-89. Both work extremely well for me, when I occasionally shave w/the DE. I got wicked razor burn the 1st time I tried a DE as well, but then went with NO pressure, just the weight of the razor and can easily do a 3 or 4 pass shave now with no irritation.

JC

Consider a large Sampler Pack like I got. I'm going through them 2 blades at a time. There is a big difference in some of the blades.

I started with an EJ 8911 a few weeks ago. The first shave was brutal with rough spots and irritation, but started to improve with the 2nd. As stated by others, technique is where it starts. I also have concluded that my face doesn't like the Derby blades and my scalp doesn't like the Feathers. So far Shark blades have been my favorite. Don't give up and don't be afraid to experiment!

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Originally Posted by Silents

I have no doubt that most of my issue is operator error. Im just looking for a more forgiving blade to help this operator on his journey to becoming proficient. Thanks to everyone that responded.

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Like yourself, I found some blades to not do their job as well as I'd like; Merkur blades spring to mind. However, I gave some Wilkinson Sword blades a try. These were better, but still not quite what I was after. After reading about Tesco's "Own brand" blades, I gave those a try... and have used them ever since; although I'm currently giving Derby blades a go. It was also discovered that the Tesco own brand were in fact repackaged Israeli-made Personna blades; which are rebranded for various other stores as well.

This page here gives a sharpness rating of the most commonly-available blades out there.

DE's are a learning curve. There's no one setup that will work for everyone, it's just a case of trial and error. Get yourself a blade sampler pack. :)

Feathers chew me up. I prefer Merkur (contrary to the post above me which only proves the infamous "YMMV" acronym :)).

But I think it's a big mistake to assume that a DE is any "easier" than a straight. DE has it's own learning curve just like a straight. You probably prepared yourself for the time it took to figure out a straight. A DE is the same way. So I wouldn't quit. Consider it a challenge just like starting a straight was.

The Edwin Jagger DE-89 is a darn fine razor. You should get a blade "sampler pack". Most every vendor sells them and they will help you find "your" blade. The "your milage may vary" cliche especially applies to blades. Feathers do the same thing to my face. I use Gillettes in the green pack and Wilkinson Swords with great results. No one blade is going to appeal to everyone. Good luck.

Ok gentlemen, I went out yesterday and purchased a pack of Green Derby blades and gave it a shot today. After 3 passes, I have a good, not BB soft shave, but very good shave with minimal razor burn. On a as ale of 1 - 10 ( 10 being face on fire ) I probably have about a 2. Mostly the burn is from technique and having to touch up these spots multiple times. I'd definitely give it a few more attempts before putting the DE into the rotation or purchasing another DE. Thanks for all of the good advice!

Ok, now I'm thinking that I'd like to get a few more and have a weeks rotation of DE's. I know I'm still learning, but this is what happened with SR's too,and I own 30 SR's now .
Looking through this category, it looks like some good vintage DE's would be Gillette's Tech, Super Speed and Fat Boy. For new, I was thinking a Merkur 34C.

Any other less aggressive suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Silents

Ok, now I'm thinking that I'd like to get a few more and have a weeks rotation of DE's. I know I'm still learning, but this is what happened with SR's too,and I own 30 SR's now .
Looking through this category, it looks like some good vintage DE's would be Gillette's Tech, Super Speed and Fat Boy. For new, I was thinking a Merkur 34C.

Any other less aggressive suggestions?

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Less aggressive razor will not solve your razor burn problem. It's you technique, not the razor. Trust me, going more mild will only lower the quality of your shave. In fact, I as counter-intuitive as it sounds I would suggest going to a more aggressive razor and loading it up with a mild blade. Derbys are mild, but I do not care for their lack of smoothness. I prefer Dorco ST300 for a mild but smooth blade. Sharks are not bad, but also not the smoothest. Merkur blades are actually quite smooth and pretty mild, but they get a bad reputation for some reason. They are certainly too expensive for what they are. Astra SP are medium sharp and very smooth. Personna Super (US made Lab prep) are pretty sharp and very smooth, I would leave those for later. Getting anything like a Merkur 34C when you have an EJ DE89 is not a good idea. Pretty much the same shave. If you want to get something where you can actually experiment with aggressiveness get a Merkur Progress. One of the pest adjustable razors out there. You can adjust it mid-shave and by tiny amounts. Kind of like turning the volume up on your radio. It also is one of the very best DE shavers in safety bar style (as opposed to open comb). Se it to the lowest setting and it's as mild as a Tech. Set it higher and you can get a very, very aggressive shave out of it. Everything in between comes steplessly as in infinitely adjustable. Progress is my favorite safety bar razor and I have pretty much given up on all my other safety bar razors. EJ DE89 was my very first DE and I really like it, but Progress will out perform it and do it with almost any blade you choose to load into it. If you want to get a moderately aggressive open comb razor I recommend Gillette New Long Comb. Wonderful razor, will give you plenty of blade feel, but if you are not doing it right will burn you for sure. Basically, you want to stay with that 30 degree or less angle and no pressure. Just guide the razor along. If you do that almost any razor will work. I find mild razors almost annoying because they leave so much behind I am forced to go over areas and that causes razor burn. A good aggressive razor just takes care of business with no need to go and rework spots with more pressure. For me a mild razor cause more razor burn for the same quality of shave. All of that can be figured out using the Progress with a middle of the road blade like Astra and dialing it low or higher and seeing what happens. It's like having a range of razors without buying more than one.

Best of luck!

I went from de89 to 37c. I don't regret it a second. Keep in mind that what people call "aggressiveness" is really just efficiency. You'll get a closer shave in less passes, and that's the key to less irritations, I think. The twisted head gives more rigidity to the blade, and the automated slicing motion is very nice in the neck where, if you have an angular face, it really is a hassle to use a "Gillette Slide".

People are right, DE's make a with the grain pass easier, but they're way underrated when it comes to shaving under the grain : the require as much precision in the angle as a straight, I find. Don't be fooled by the name "safety razor".

And try Astra SP. A magic blade for many. I tried quite a few, and this one just instantly stood up from all the others. It is a sharp yet mild blade.

Good to hear the derby blades worked! They are my favorite.

It was late last night when I posted my reply and I forgot to mention one very important thing. You if you are thinking of having a rotation of DE razors, don't! Stick with one razor for a few months at least. Otherwise you'll be chasing variables for ever. Pick a good razor such as your EJ DE89 or if you must feed the RAD beast get a Merkur Progress, because you will likely not have to get any more razors after that. Stay with the same razor for like 3 months. Learn to get good shaves out of it and then you'll be able to shave with pretty much any DE razor. I think rotating a different razor every shave at the beginning is a very bad idea. EJ DE89 is a fine first razor. It's on the mild side, but is a fine tool and can give absolutely wonderful shaves. If you put the head on top of a nice heavy bulldog handle like Ikon or Weber you will be set for the learning duration. Even with the stock handle, it's a great razor. You can experiment with different blades, but again, start with a known good blade like Personna Super (US-made lab/med prep) or Astra SP and stay with that. In fact, the fewer the number of variables in your shave the quicker you will be up and running with perfect results. Once you do get consistent perfect results (and you will) then you can introduce variables and see what those variables do tot he shave. I have really learned the proper angle and pressure from using my Progress for about 4 months non-stop. Then I picked up a Gillette New LC, which gave me terrible razor burn before the Progress tenure and it felt mild as a Tech. I was amazed at the change. It was all in my muscle memory because I did not do anything seemingly different. It just happened. So, do yourself a favor and do not rotate razors for a while. I am not saying do not buy them, mind you, just do not try using a different razor every day. Stay with the same one and it will reward you.

With DE, you have to remember no pressure on the blade. If you were getting that much irritation you probably didn't have a proper cutting angle. Also you might try an adjustable razor, I use a Merkur Futur; there are other options for adjustable. If your DE is adjustable, consider lowering the aggressiveness.
Out of the blades I've tried so far, Feather have given me the best shaves.

Astra superior platinum blades i found to be the perfect combination with an EJ razor.

If you want to get some modern razors, a Merkur Progress is great as it is adjustable. I have a Tradere Open Comb that I love, but is on the aggressive side. My favorite (along with my EJ DE89) is my Ikon Bamboo with the dual head, one side open comb and one side closed. I don't recomend the Feather Stainless, as it is so mild to the point of being ineffective. I must say you bought the best razor when you got the EJ DE89...it is my deserted island pick...if I could only have one, it would be that one. And, it is the cheapest razor I own, so that says a lot.

I agree with your suggestion of putting a heavier handle on the DE89. I wasted my money on the Feather Stainless, but the handle is great on my EJ! Guess I paid 200 large for a handle.

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Originally Posted by Silents

I've been shaving with a SR for almost a year and switched to the SR because of razor burn from traditional razors. Literally, from that day on 95% of my razor burn disappeared.

About 2 months ago, I figured I try a DE. After some research, I went with a brand new Edwin Jagger DE-89 and some Feather Black blades. After researching technique, I prepped and followed the technique for my first shave.

I have never had razor burn like that in my life. The redness and sting took almost four days to go away. Additionally, I had approximately 15 ingrown hairs on my neck the day after that shave.

Since then my DE is sitting in a drawer collecting dust.

Is a DE just not for me? Any suggestions?

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The way the flow of your post reads, I'm getting a picture of your not shaving at a 30 degree angle. It also could be that when it doesn't hurt you apply more and more pressure and by the time you're finished your face is really irritated.

I watched this video a few mornings ago and it was a great refresher on blade angle. Ever since I've gotten fantastic shaves with much less irritation. You can know what to do but still lapse into bad habits without realizing it. Watch how this guy sets the angle with his DE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzeqIqtJ9ns

The straight razor is as close to perfection as you can get when used right, so why settle for hamburger when you can have a steak?

Progress Report

I just concluded my second shave, with no nicks and no razor burn. I had to do quite a bit of touch up after my 3rd pass, but I just re-applied some more lather and the touch ups were comfortable..

One question, as this was my second shave with the same blade, the shave wasn't as close as the first. I'm assuming this is normal, but how many shaves can I expect from one blade?

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Originally Posted by Silents

Progress Report

I just concluded my second shave, with no nicks and no razor burn. I had to do quite a bit of touch up after my 3rd pass, but I just re-applied some more lather and the touch ups were comfortable..

One question, as this was my second shave with the same blade, the shave wasn't as close as the first. I'm assuming this is normal, but how many shaves can I expect from one blade?

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I clean and dry my blade after each use and can get as many as 10 or more shaves from them.

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Originally Posted by Silents

One question, as this was my second shave with the same blade, the shave wasn't as close as the first. I'm assuming this is normal, but how many shaves can I expect from one blade?

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Well that the $64000 question lol. There are many variables that determine how long a DE blade will last - beard thickness, the coating of the blade etc. And because blades are mass produced item there are QC variances as well. Some guys will get 2 comfortable shaves from a blade, some will stretch it out to 8 or more (!). I've found that most blades drop off in quality around 3-5 shaves, but to be safe I usually toss them after 3 shaves. A little experimentation is in order to find out what will work for you.

Congrats on your progress, sounds like it's going well for you.

And I just picked up on eBay a 1953 NOS Gillette Super Speed w/Astra blades. Very inexpensive ($30) and the seller had 2 others (a 1957 and 1963) at the same price. But by the time I completed the sale the other two were already sold. I don't think the seller realized what he had in his hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silents

Progress Report

I just concluded my second shave, with no nicks and no razor burn. I had to do quite a bit of touch up after my 3rd pass, but I just re-applied some more lather and the touch ups were comfortable..

One question, as this was my second shave with the same blade, the shave wasn't as close as the first. I'm assuming this is normal, but how many shaves can I expect from one blade?

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That depends largely on the blade itself, but 3-5 shaves is generally the sweet spot but the blades are so inexpensive that if you can change them before 3 shaves if you desire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silents

Progress Report

I just concluded my second shave, with no nicks and no razor burn. I had to do quite a bit of touch up after my 3rd pass, but I just re-applied some more lather and the touch ups were comfortable..

One question, as this was my second shave with the same blade, the shave wasn't as close as the first. I'm assuming this is normal, but how many shaves can I expect from one blade?

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Depends on the blade, but three 3-pass shaves is pretty much a minimum with even a fairly cheap blade. Again, depends on many things including the technique. Improper technique will dull the blade faster. Namely the angle. If you use your razor in "paint scraper" mode, i.e. at an angle greater than 30 degrees, the edge will suffer as well as your face. The reason you got a less close shave, IMO, is that you eased up on the pressure and saved your skin. That's the absolutely correct thing to do, however, the closeness of the shave is also dependent on the blade sharpness and smoothness and your razor's aggressiveness level. I have said this before, but I get a closer and more comfortable shave with an aggressive razor than a mild one. With a mild razor such as a Super Speed or a Tech I can either get a comfortable shave or a close shave, but not both. This is YMMV thing, of course, but I find a mild razor to be incapable of giving a real close shave with no razor burn. It will do just fine, a DFS or even a BBS that will grow back relatively quickly, but something like a Cadet OC will give me a BBS that will last for 36 hours and no razor burn at all. I think mild razors are excellent to learn on, but at some point if you want a real, REAL close shave you'll need to go a bit more aggressive. How much more depends on the individual. This is why do not tire of recommending Merkur Progress. It goes from milder than Super Speed to as aggressive as R41 Muhle. I shaved with a super Speed for a long time before I realized this. I love Super Speeds for their excellent construction and rock solid performance, but at the end I could not get a super close shave out of them. This is why I avoided Gillette Adjustables. They are just Super Speeds with adjustment. So, I think this progress is excellent and the fact that you got a less close shave this time makes total sense. You saved your skin at the expense of closeness of shave. It is a compromise that is always in the balance. However, you can come closer in shave and still not hurt your skin. Now that you have a starting point, just keep trying to repeat it. Go easy and be okay with having a less than BBS as long as your skin is comfortable and the shave looks good. With repetition you will get closer without going into razor burn zone. It's just going to take some number of shaves. You may or may not also realize that you need a more aggressive razor than a Super Speed. I would say EJ DE89 is excellent and more aggressive than a Super Speed, but not by much. I think there is more blade gap on the EJ. You can also shim any DE razor you have to increase aggressiveness. Shim is an old DE blade with edges cut off by scissors. Cut the edges off an old edge just past the bevel of the edge. You want most of the blade to be intact. This "shim" goes under the working blade and effectively raises working blade above the safety bar increasing blade gap and in some cases blade exposure (depends on the razor head geometry). It works on Super Speeds, EJ, pretty much any DE razor. You can also use as many shims (within reason) as you want. Most people use one to three. If you find yourself wanting more you get a Progress or other adjustable, which pretty much mimics the shimming.

Great to hear your results are improving. DE shaving is not as simple as it may first appear, but once you get it, it's the simplest thing in the world. I imaging straight razor shaving is similar. I am waiting on my first straight now and am pretty nervous, but ultimately it's probably the same in the sense that it will take so many shaves and mistakes and corrections before I get anywhere. DE has less of a learning curve, I think, but it still does have a learning curve. Again, please do not rotate your razors or you will only be more confused by results. Load Astra SP in the EJ and stay with that combo for a month at least and you will be getting awesome shaves.