First shave with a "real" straight... Is it worth it?

I've been shaving with a shavette and a safety razor for about 4 years now. I finally ponied up and bought a real straight off the classifieds here. It's a Dubl Duck that was advertised as shave ready. I say advertised because I really have no way of telling if it truly is. So here's my issue... Today I went to use it for the first time. I got out of a nice hot shower and did my typical pre-shave routine. When I went to shave the razor did not want to slide across my skin and when it came into contact with my beard it didn't want to cut, it grabbed then skipped up about 1/8 inch. I thought I was not using enough pressure, second attempt was barely better. It still wanted to skip. I tried a few different angles, all with the same result. Frustrated, I grabbed my shavette and it was smooth sailing from there. So my question is, what did I do wrong? Wrong angle? Did I somehow manage to ruin the edge on the blade? I didn't strop it before shaving. I figured since it was advertised as shave ready from a senior member, I'd only harm the edge with my stropping ignorance. So... Honestly, my neck isn't happy and I'm wondering if making the switch was worth it. Any help is greatly appreciated.
TIA
-Matt

The Shave Test


http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-test-vid.html


it is pretty explanatory between the thread and the Vid :)

Thanks for posting that. Some good info, only problem is I keep a full beard and only have my neck and the tops of my cheeks :-)

This is a common topic here at SRP and your experience is more common than not, so rest assured good sir, you are in fine company.

The culprit is usually shaving technique (angle, pressure etc) and poor stropping. Since you didn't strop the first time 'round that might be a good start. I'm not certain that every razor sold as "shave ready" is prestropped before shipment, so that could be a factor.

And yes, unfortunately it could be the razor itself. Even the best honers have the odd one slip through the cracks. But the tendency is to blame the razor first, so I'd recommend more practice before considering additional honing.

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Originally Posted by guthriemt

I've been shaving with a shavette and a safety razor for about 4 years now. I finally ponied up and bought a real straight off the classifieds here. It's a Dubl Duck that was advertised as shave ready. I say advertised because I really have no way of telling if it truly is. So here's my issue... Today I went to use it for the first time. I got out of a nice hot shower and did my typical pre-shave routine. When I went to shave the razor did not want to slide across my skin and when it came into contact with my beard it didn't want to cut, it grabbed then skipped up about 1/8 inch. I thought I was not using enough pressure, second attempt was barely better. It still wanted to skip. I tried a few different angles, all with the same result. Frustrated, I grabbed my shavette and it was smooth sailing from there. So my question is, what did I do wrong? Wrong angle? Did I somehow manage to ruin the edge on the blade? I didn't strop it before shaving. I figured since it was advertised as shave ready from a senior member, I'd only harm the edge with my stropping ignorance. So... Honestly, my neck isn't happy and I'm wondering if making the switch was worth it. Any help is greatly appreciated.
TIA
-Matt

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There is a difference between a shavette and a traditional straight. You are used to one and not the other. Since you are an experienced straight shaver I think I'd do more harm than good suggesting things like making your lather slicker. It's just a matter of practice.

gssixgun,
I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be a hobbiest fairly shortly...

gssixgun, how difficult is it to learn to hone?

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Originally Posted by guthriemt

gssixgun, how difficult is it to learn to hone?

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Learning to hone to a shave ready edge is not that hard at all 1000's of people on here have done it, but you have to invest the time, everything about this hobby costs time to get it right...

There is a certain "Coolness" about using a traditional SR that you honed and stropped yourself that can never be replaced with unwrapping a blade and sticking it into a handle.. But that desire has to be more than just "Shaving" basically it becomes a hobby unto itself...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Learning to hone to a shave ready edge is not that hard at all 1000's of people on here have done it, but you have to invest the time, everything about this hobby costs time to get it right...

There is a certain "Coolness" about using a traditional SR that you honed and stropped yourself that can never be replaced with unwrapping a blade and sticking it into a handle.. But that desire has to be more than just "Shaving" basically it becomes a hobby unto itself...

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What kind of financial investment can I expect to have what I need to get started?

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Originally Posted by guthriemt

What kind of financial investment can I expect to have what I need to get started?

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Again it is time vs money

You could invest the time hunting Antique shops and Estate sales and find some old Eschers and Coticules out in the wild for $10 each or you can order a set of Naniwas, Choseras, Shaptons, J-nats etc etc and spend some serious hard earned cash..

We mostly advise starting with either a Norton 4/8 or a Naniwa SS 3/8,,, that gets you started, then of course a strop... Cost again is relative to time, you can wait and watch the Classifieds and get them for a really good deal or buy them new tonight :)


See how this all seems to revolve back to "How much time to you want to invest" :p


I am NOT trying to be evasive or mystical these are choices you have to make

I quit Honing a few mos. back,spent 4 yrs teaching myself,I actually got pretty good at it but I was very slow so I decided it was a waste of my time.
I have all the great stones,I know how to use them,But they will all be gone one day.
The way I look at it,You have the best Honers in the world on this site,People that are at the top tier of the art.
I have maybe 20 blades in my rotation,they only need to be pro-honed about every two years at the most,some even longer.
To me honing is a waste of my time.Esp, when I can trade a custom one off badger brush to get 4 blades honed by the best of the best:)

You know my friend Pixel does have a point, assuming you are in the US (otherwise shipping is cost restrictive) why don't you send me that DD and I will run it up to an edge Honed & Stropped that I would use for myself and my beard lines and see if that works first.. If so then start looking for hones & strops hehehe
You cover freight :)


PM me if that works for you

He makes a fantastic point... I wish would have posted this a few months ago! I just moved down here to Southern Utah, but I used to fly out of Spokane a lot and I would have just zipped over to you and dropped it off!

Learn the art first and foremost,have your blades honed by the best of the best.Forget stones and honing for at least a year into the sport,maybe more.
If you think you will be saving money by honing your own blades.Your nutz.:)
Honing is a totally differant subset to straight razor shaving,IMO has nothing to do with shaving.

There is also a difference between refreshing and honing, perhaps one of the more experienced guys could chime in at this point, I don't know enough to be much use.
Regards ed.

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

There is also a difference between refreshing and honing, perhaps one of the more experienced guys could chime in at this point, I don't know enough to be much use.
Regards ed.

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I think you make the salient point here, Ed. In my opinion people need some basic skills in tuning up a blade that was originally acquired shave ready. When I started straight shaving I decided I wasn't going to do this unless I took care of the sharpening myself. That doesn't mean learning how to repair it, just know how to maintain it during normal use.

A couple of weeks ago I spoke to a man who used straight razors for religious reasons. He said the reasons would be hard for me understand, but he could use a straight or an electric but couldn't use the typical department store fare. When he was in the Army he had to get special permission to use a straight because the Army considers it a weapon. Anyway, he ordered $500 worth of razors and because the only thing he knew how to do was strop, he discarded the razor when it got dull. Now that he is no longer in the service, he pays someone $35 to sharpen the one he has now when it gets dull. I thought that was kind of extreme. He needs to learn to give his razor a tune up.

I can set a bevel and keep my edges sharp. I can't mold steel, restore, or re-scale. I would like to be able to re-scale and tighten the pins, and I think I can learn that.

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

I think you make the salient point here, Ed. In my opinion people need some basic skills in tuning up a blade that was originally acquired shave ready. When I started straight shaving I decided I wasn't going to do this unless I took care of the sharpening myself. That doesn't mean learning how to repair it, just know how to maintain it during normal use.

A couple of weeks ago I spoke to a man who used straight razors for religious reasons. He said the reasons would be hard for me understand, but he could use a straight or an electric but couldn't use the typical department store fare. When he was in the Army he had to get special permission to use a straight because the Army considers it a weapon. Anyway, he ordered $500 worth of razors and because the only thing he knew how to do was strop, he discarded the razor when it got dull. Now that he is no longer in the service, he pays someone $35 to sharpen the one he has now when it gets dull. I thought that was kind of extreme. He needs to learn to give his razor a tune up.

I can set a bevel and keep my edges sharp. I can't mold steel, restore, or re-scale. I would like to be able to re-scale and tighten the pins, and I think I can learn that.

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Straights or electric, kind of both extremes isn't it? I wonder why he didn't just put the razors aside and send them out in bulk for honing, or am I misunderstanding you.
I need to learn pin tightening, I tried with a mcguyver set up, and it wasn't Terribly easy, it went from tighter to looser to tighter but never tight, it looks a bit like the washer has sunk into the plastic scale now. I think I might get a proper anvil and peening hammer, as one of my other razors needs a slight touch, but I want to get it right on the crappy one first.

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

Straights or electric, kind of both extremes isn't it? I wonder why he didn't just put the razors aside and send them out in bulk for honing, or am I misunderstanding you.
I need to learn pin tightening, I tried with a mcguyver set up, and it wasn't Terribly easy, it went from tighter to looser to tighter but never tight, it looks a bit like the washer has sunk into the plastic scale now. I think I might get a proper anvil and peening hammer, as one of my other razors needs a slight touch, but I want to get it right on the crappy one first.

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They are both ends of the spectrum. The guy is Jewish, and he definitely said I would have difficulty understanding why he uses straights. He is a highly educated man and is writing a dissertation (I guess for a Ph.D.) on the lingering effects on the Holocaust. When I asked him for an example he said that he's reluctant to tell a potential employer he is Jewish because of discrimination that existed in the past. He didn't like electric razors, so he went to Plan B. He discarded dull razors when he was in the Army, but now as a civilian he sends them out to be sharpened. I guess it was difficult to arrange while overseas on duty.

There is another example of this. The guy who taught me the most about straight shaving through his video, Chiminesch, also started with an electric and didn't like it. His father was a Rabbi and had to use an electric for religious reasons. This is the video, which I'm sure many of you will remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIM0Coix6Gg

I'm sure one day I will get to learning how to re-scale a razor and tighten the pins. I have extreme difficulty using a razor with a loose pivot point. I have a few others that really need new scales. I think a straight razor shaver should be able to do these things and when I have more time I'll look into it.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Learn the art first and foremost,have your blades honed by the best of the best.Forget stones and honing for at least a year into the sport,maybe more.
If you think you will be saving money by honing your own blades.Your nutz.:)
Honing is a totally differant subset to straight razor shaving,IMO has nothing to do with shaving.

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I'm just over a year SRS....joined the site finally several months ago...and I just ordered a refresher kit from Classic Edge....it's a Belgian Coticule with a charged balsa board...it's simply a "refresher" kit, when the blade starts to tug and pull a bit, the idea is to touch it up on this stone...the idea being to extend the life between full honing's. Aside from the debate about natural vs synthetic...it's my first, and only step to honing.

I agree with Pixelfixed, hey, if I can extend the life of a blade with a refresh, great, but so far with many nice razors available for me to choose from, all professionally honed, it's more efficient in time and cost to send them out.

So I received the razor last night in the mail and decided to approach this slightly different, normally the first thing I do when testing a razor like this is to pull out the Magnifier and check the edge, this time I wanted to try more like a newb would :)

So I take the DD Dwarf with a freaking loose pivot :( (I HATE loose floppy razors) and do a KISS shave as a test..

Hot water splash followed by two hot towels
Col. Conk Amber
Semogue 1305 Boar
25/50 Linen / Leather SRD Premium 1

No special prep just a simple shave to test the edge..

Is it shave ready ?? technically yes it shaves, rather rough feeling, my poor Hollywood face feels a bit beat on, it cut hair, especially at the front 2/3 of the blade, a bit grabby, not something I would want to shave with again tomorrow...


So I come downstairs to write this, and stop by the hone table and check the edge under a 30x well lighted Lopue, and I find that the back 1/3 of the edge is badly chipped and rough (My poor face) the bevel goes from good at the front of the blade to about halfway down then gets weak to non-existent by the heel..

Many times we say that and experienced hand can shave a much less refined edge then a newb, this just proved it once again :p..
In my hands the razor technically shaves, because I can move it to get the best out of it, but to a newb this is just not good enough, and by simply looking at the edge under a loupe it becomes very apparent that is was not honed completely nor correctly :(

Anyway that is JHMO...

I kind of want to send you a couple of my blades now...especially since Phill (classic edge phil) isn't honing ATM. It would be nice to get feedback from you :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You know my friend Pixel does have a point, assuming you are in the US (otherwise shipping is cost restrictive) why don't you send me that DD and I will run it up to an edge Honed & Stropped that I would use for myself and my beard lines and see if that works first.. If so then start looking for hones & strops hehehe
You cover freight :)


PM me if that works for you

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Now that is an offer and a half! <------------- !!!!!!!

In the end it is tools in the battle between
whiskers and steel. In any battle there is
a risk of damage to the innocent (skin).

A full size open blade razor (str8) may be
your third choice for maintaining
a tight beard line. Some styles of whiskers
match some razors better than others.
I kept a full beard for 35 years and used
a str8 to tidy up my neck line.

Great offer...

Once you have a razor correctly sharpened keeping it sharp
is a lot simpler and only takes one hone or perhaps submicron
paste/ spray on the inside canvas of a standard strop.

So I finished the honing on the DD last night..


One thing I have often said and sometimes caught flak over is that if you really want to know how good a razor is, get it on the hone yourself :)

I cleaned up the razor in and out first, and tightened that damn loose pivot :)

This is the before honing pic. note the heel it is in the way, and if you look real close you can see the small "Heel Hook" that is there,,, if you look about 1/2 inch up from the heel you will see one issue as there was some pitting and corrosion that was never addressed.. The corrosion issue was separate form the chipping issue :(

Attachment 140995


Started on the DMT 325 to re-contour the heel, moved over to the Chosera 1k and started removing chips :)
Took a bit of work and another heel re-contour before I got a clean even bevel, once that was done I moved the razor over to the Shapton GS system and went 1-2-4-6-8-16-30 as I wanted to send back the most Wicked Sharp edge I could, and the DD steel is more then capable of holding a 30k edge.. Stropped her up and this little Dwarf is on the way home..

Attachment 140994


Now we await the next update from Matt after he tries a shave... :tu

Finally gave it a go tonight. First off, thanks for fixing that lose pivot. That alone made it feel like a million bucks. Prepped with a HOT bath (I've been sick and it sounded relaxing lol). Got out, lathered up and massaged my face. Splashed hot water on my face, applied some preshave oil and lathered up. Grabbed the razor and... Smoooooooooth!!!! I couldn't believe it! Did a first pass WTG on my neck and cheeks. Felt so good I did another WTG just for fun. That went so good I got brave and went for an AGT. That wasn't as smooth lol. Got one TINY nick, but it stopped bleeding before I was done. All in all I would have to say that was very successful. It's been 15 min since my shave and my face feels great, so I'll try another ATG next time. I can't thank gssixgun enough! I'm pretty excited to get going with this and am looking forward to my next shave, heck I may just shave for than once a week lol.