shaving ATG?

Hey gents,

I shave wtg, then lightly xtg, but I can't seem to get the acne right to shave atg. I find when I shave down, I get the best results at about 20-30 degree angle, but if I attempt to do the same angle going up, the razor digs in my skin and starts to cut my face..

I make sure to apply tons of shaving soap before shaving atg, but it seems the only way I can get away with a smooth stroke going up is almost at a perfect 90 degree Angie, and the blade just barely cuts and I have to switch to a safety razor to get as close as I need..

This kind of defeats the purpose of using a SR, even if I change the angle to maybe a 60-80 degree stroke, the blade tends to want to bite into my skin and want to go under it!
Finding the happy medium doesn't seem to work, as I stated, too shallow of an angle and it cuts me to pieces, to great of an angle and it glides over the hair..

My chin whiskers are like steel wires...

The 1905 booklet that introduced the cold water shave recommended only shaving WTG. Two passes if necessary. I tried that and it was decent. I do go WTG followed by ATG but that is just me. For instance, I cannot shave ATG on my mustache. Ain't happining. So it could be your beard, it could be the razor isn't sharp enough, or it could be some flaw in technique. Skin stretching comes to mind. If you're trying different blade angles, and none of them do it, and your razor is truly shave ready, skin stretching is the only thing I can think of that could improve the situation. :gl:

This is usually the sign of a dull razor. This causes us to apply more pressure which leads to cuts. It may be counterintuitiive but we are much less likely to cut ourselves with a sharp blade than with a dull one.

Most people find that a shallower angle ATG than WTG works best. A large angle leads to attempting to scrape the whiskers off rather than cutting them so your experience is no surprise there.

rs,
Tack

My beard is pretty coarse. I can't go ATG on most areas of my face, but I've found that I really don't need to. I do combinations of WTG and then XTG, or do 2 XTG passes from opposite directions, and that gets me a very good shave. It works especially well now that I've got my stropping correct. I was doing good stropping before, but recently it occurred to me that I was applying too much pressure on the strop (and on my face). That dulled the razor a bit, and made the edge less effective.

PS, I love DE's, but I can't go ATG with a DE either. It's too uncomfortable. But again, two apposing XTG passes leaves BBS without irritation.

So, reevaluate stropping, stretching (I find that I'm always reevaluating and improving), don't make ATG a goal, and experiment with different hand holds and XTG passes.

Are you shaving right after a shower? I ask because I need to really soften up the whiskers to get a smooth shave. I've tried hot towels, letting a lather sit on my face while I strop, etc. but for me, nothing beats shaving right after a shower.

I use cold water for my shave and lately my shave has evolved again, as it won't to do in this fine hobby.

Lately, I've been into doing as many passes as I want, not necessarily in pursuit of a BBS shave, just to enjoy the shave for as long as I can, especially with using the new MDC Fougere I just got.

Before, I would do a two pass,shave, WTG everywhere, then XTG on the cheeks and an ATG on the neck area - was a DFS, and took about 5 minutes in total.

Now, haha, WTG everywhere, re-lather, then ATG everywhere, another re-lather, then XTG on the cheeks, and another ATG on the neck area, and then if I can feel anything left over, a light re-lather, and a WTG all over, and the shaving's done.

In terms of ATG, I slowly evolved my technique from just the neck area going farther and farther up the face, and when I finally remembered to press down and hold the skin on the neck, the ATG stroke right up the face became easier and easier. Was always a stroke I wanted to master, and now I can finally do it successfully.

Scything stroke will be next I'd like to attempt.

Funny thing though, it was using a razor I thought was just a interesting purchase off the Classified's here, more of to have blade than necessarily a great shaver, a TI Frameback #69, turns out it's one of the best shaver's I own, it's so nimble, it was with that razor that I finally went the whole way, my first entire ATG shave.

So, I think it's something that takes lots of practice, I use cold water so prep is kind of moot IMO, and pinning, or holding the skin down on your neck line to provide the action of stretching, is key to a good ATG stroke.

As mentioned before, how cool it is that your shave can and does evolve, right now, if I could get away with a 30 pass shave without my face turning into a burning, flaming skull, I'd do it...:p

Yes I do shave right after a hot shower.. Stretching the skin is a little tricky for me around my chin area because my skin is slick from the soap...

Can Someone suggest a good starting angle for atg in my chin? If I can get the angle right, then I can focus more on stretching techniques and proper finger placement

ATG is for experts.

with sharp razors.

otherwise you are BEGGING for trouble of the pink lather type.

Nearly everybody can get a fine shave by going WTG/XTG.

ATG in areas of high beard density is just plain asking for it.

FWIW i don't think rank newbs should attempt scything strokes either.

Get good with WTG/XTG, that's all you need with a SHARP razor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WadePatton

ATG is for experts.

with sharp razors.

otherwise you are BEGGING for trouble of the pink lather type.

Nearly everybody can get a fine shave by going WTG/XTG.

ATG in areas of high beard density is just plain asking for it.

FWIW i don't think rank newbs should attempt scything strokes either.

Get good with WTG/XTG, that's all you need with a SHARP razor.

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Yes, get proficient with the basic WTG/XTG first...I'd add to that, learn to go from ear to nose with the XTG and also learn to go from nose to ear area XTG as well, it's much trickier than it sounds, at least it was for me.

But yes, the ATG has taken me the better part of 6 months to get consistent with it, after a good four months of, "basic training". At first, I could somewhat easily go just the neck area on my left side with my right hand, the right side with my left hand was always more difficult - still is, muscle memory takes awhile.

I've been scything small strokes from sideburn to lower lip area, and you definitely have to be on your game, but as you get more comfortable, your technique will evolve, just go slow.

But yes, become proficient with the basic WTG and XTG for at least your first 100 shaves, that seems to be a good mark, and if depending how often you shave, you can do the math on how long it will take you to get to 100 shaves, if you want to use that as some sort of milestone.

Good luck, and above all, enjoy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by magnus28

Yes I do shave right after a hot shower.. Stretching the skin is a little tricky for me around my chin area because my skin is slick from the soap...

Can Someone suggest a good starting angle for atg in my chin? If I can get the angle right, then I can focus more on stretching techniques and proper finger placement

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As far as ATG digging into your skin. I know exactly what you're talking about. If you try to go 30 degrees to start with ATG the hair will guide the blade into your skin. What I do is start at about a 15-20 degree angle with zero pressure for the first stroke. So I start around 15 degrees and then take a few strokes per area I'm shaving gradually increasing to around 30 degrees looking for that perfect angle. There has to be zero pressure (very light) to avoid irritation. This is what works for me anyways.

I agree that you want to get all you can out of the WTG &XTG passes. If you eventually add on ATG, then a shallower blade angle helps (as some already mention). Also, try to stretch the skin from the "upgrowth" side: for example, if the hair grows north-to-south, stretch from the north. This makes the hair stand more straight up.

I use a very shallow angle for ATG, the spine is touching or nearly so on my face. And I've learned not to go ATG in the moustache area, my face will not tolerate it. Also, before ATG takes place, you must have adequate beard reduction. With a borderline edge on a razor, you can do WTG and XTG, but for ATG, you need a sharp edge.

I have to agree with what the others have said. Get very good at the WTG and XTG passes first. Even give yourself 6 months experience before seriously tackling ATG passes. A very sharp razor used with the spine close to the skin and a very light touch is needed. Don't push/rush it or you are asking for trouble, it will eventually come.

Bob

You have really big angle if you use 30 degrees ATG. I would advice to shave really shallow degree ATG. When I shave ATG spine of razor almost touch my neck and I got BBS. And one think is that do not over stretch your skin. There have to kind of bounce for the razor :)

And then there is of course sharpness of razor and how well you have prep your face etc.

I share the same opinion as a couple other here. ATG requires a lower to the skin angle than with the grain. The section of your face you are shaving dictated different ATG angles as well.

When I first started shaving ATG about a year ago I did what I read many suggested on SRP: shave with the blade flat against the skin. It took some time to learn, but I got the hang of it and later experimented with varying the angle ATG, depending on what part of my face I shaved.

A few months ago I started doing ATG on my chin area, which is the difficult area of my face. I've got it down and find that short strokes with the blade flat on the skin work best for me. Those long strokes just end up cutting my chin.

The way the grain of the hair affects the "draw" of your blade onto the face-which changes your blade angle and threatens the skin- is EGGSactly why we do reduction passes WTG/XTG before attempting ATG.

and also

why only the sharpest/smoothest razors will work. The sharper they are the more effective the reduction* will have already been. The smoother they are the less they will irritate the skin if drawn too tightly into it by the grain of the hair.

An edge might cut okay WTG/XTG, but rip your flesh (like weasels) and pull hairs going ATG. And that's why i consider full-on square, quite dangerous and risky for the novice, ATG stroke to be a sharpness test. It also must not raise irritation (smoothness test). There's your butter. :p

*reduction. A large part of the whiskers will be nipped short enough by WTG and XTG stroke such that ATG stroke will encounter less grain resistance.

So far as i have learned, N. E. Hoo.

And i did LEARN here this very thread--that bit about stretching in such a way as to modify the whisker angle. That's a good thing to consider no doubt.