Anyone NOT Like a Smiley?

So I picked this up the other day, and had my first shave with it today.

Attachment 179681

Note, this is not your father's smiley... it's... a "modified" version. More of a wave then a smile.

BEAUTIFULLY restored, ggorgeousblade and scales... and this is by far the most heavy razor I own, and I really liked the extra weight.

But the shave... using my usual technique which works fine for my other blades in rotation... I got a spotty shave. I just couldn't get a good shave, and started to really irritate my neck trying to get one, so I stopped.

Now, I will add that when this sucker was cutting whisker, it did so easily... no sound, no pulling, just a clean slice. I assume this was because of the extreme angle in the cut of the blade. But for some reason, it just didnt happen in most places on my neck!

Anyone else have a weird experience such as this with a smiley?

When I got my first heavily ground razor it took me a few shaves to get a good shave. Part of that I chocked up to not having a lot of experience with heavy blades. At that point I had mostly shaved with full and extra hollow razors and one half hollow. I do think that wavy edge may have something to do with it. I'm not sure I would be excited to give it a go. I do like the heavier grinds a lot now and think perhaps you might want to send that one out for a honing.

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Originally Posted by Aldwyn

But the shave... using my usual technique which works fine for my other blades in rotation... I got a spotty shave. I just couldn't get a good shave, and started to really irritate my neck trying to get one, so I stopped.

Now, I will add that when this sucker was cutting whisker, it did so easily... no sound, no pulling, just a clean slice. I assume this was because of the extreme angle in the cut of the blade. But for some reason, it just didnt happen in most places on my neck!

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Bezutifully restored but poorly honed unless the 'frown' at the heel has been corrected.
Easily the cause of your problems.

I tend to agree with Onimaru. Ditch the frown and you will have a better razor for your labor.
Very good looker!

I was under the impression that the frown was part of the way the razor was originally built. And being told that it's got a learning curve on how to use these, but once you got it, its a great shave. Is this not the case?

Its true that I have never seen another W&B with a blade like this before.

I wonder if the frown is ground out, that pretty much means flat edge, and would it remove much weight from the blade?

I don't think any maker would ever do that on purpose. That is why I said send it out for a honing. A pro will be able to fix that and you will get a whole new perspective on how that blade was intended to shave.

Disappointing, as I love the look of it.

But if I cant shave with it unless I have the frown removed, I guess that needs to be done.

Thanks for the input!

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Originally Posted by Aldwyn

I was under the impression that the frown was part of the way the razor was originally built. Definitely not.
And being told that it's got a learning curve on how to use these, but once you got it, its a great shave. Is this not the case?
Definitely not. I would question a seller's intent if he said that.

Its true that I have never seen another W&B with a blade like this before.

I wonder if the frown is ground out, that pretty much means flat edge, and would it remove much weight from the blade?
No. The correction coud be kept mainly to the heel & flattening any sway back razor is simply bad geometry

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Just confirming Rezdog's reply. This razor most likely had heel damage & was badly honed to compensate.

It's gonna lose a big chunk of the heel corner to even get the rearward half of the edge fairly strait. better to do a bit more if a slight smile back there. (recommended) Keep what's in the belly and the toe, swoop the heel. This razor has a big piece missing.
Might be fixable. Oz can draw on the picture what I mean. I have seen him do it! :)
All-powerful as he is! :popcorn:

Oh! It is NOT a faux-frameback. This is a 'rattler' grind!

I agree with Sharptonn the heel has to go to make it symmetrical, however this is not a large razor so removing a massive amount of heel will be dramatic and painful to your soul.

Attachment 179795

Once it looked something like my Joseph Rogers.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...7803-fred5.JPG

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Originally Posted by Tarkus

I agree with Sharptonn the heel has to go to make it symmetrical, however this is not a large razor so removing a massive amount of heel will be dramatic and painful to your soul.

Attachment 179795

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Ayyyeeee! I can feel the pain already. In fact, I think the Jedi can feel it as well.

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Originally Posted by Hart

Once it looked something like my Joseph Rogers.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...7803-fred5.JPG

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Damn, that is sweet. I have a bit of an affinity for Jos Rodgers and Son, too... A "The Rodgers" was my first straight (I really should get it restored), and... my last name is Rodgers, with family coming from England.

So... since fixing my blade seems to be major surgery, is there anyone you guys recommend to perform the healectomy?

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Oh! It is NOT a faux-frameback. This is a 'rattler' grind!

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Forgot to give proper thanks... thanks!!

Just did some research. I guess these are full hollow + some. :) I guess its the spine that adds the weight, as it is the heaviest of all of my razors.

You're getting some good help, Aldwyn.

I saw the marking on the blade for correction - that's why I'm posting. I get alot of blades that have a nice gracefully curved spine that have been brutalized on stones as if they had a straight edge and straight spine. You can spot them by the excessive spine wear in the middle and the middle bevel rarely gets sharp.

When you correct that bevel, a simple curve will still have the bevel out of parallel w/ the spine and continue to be a PITA to hone. The curve of the bevel needs to follow the curve of the spine - or how the spine was originally shaped. The spine is the 'fixture' that holds the bevel at the correct angle while honing. If the bevel isn't parallel, you're forever fighting w/ it. Correction is a long process. Don't be in a hurry to come off your course stone or diamond plate. With a heavy grind it might want several sessions. One long session can tax one's patience & care.

Its a handsome piece. After some labor, 'should give the joy you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Aldwyn

Forgot to give proper thanks... thanks!!

Just did some research. I guess these are full hollow + some. :) I guess its the spine that adds the weight, as it is the heaviest of all of my razors.

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Look up "ken hawkley" he has a pdf showing all sorts of details of razors written by a sheffield razor grinder, rattlers are kind of like frameback blade thickness, but ground down from a wedge shaped razor. So like a heavy frameback. If you find the PDF you will see what i mean, and you will find out what a grob is too :)

Thanks for the info!

So if I am getting you correctly, the smile needs to go altogether? But heal being smaller then the toe to follow the curve of the blade?

And I wont be in a hurry on a course stone... I'll send it out to have someone else do it! :D I dont trust myself to hone my own razors. I'll buy some stones, and give it a go one day... but I dont think this one is the place to start!

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Originally Posted by pinklather

You're getting some good help, Aldwyn.

I saw the marking on the blade for correction - that's why I'm posting. I get alot of blades that have a nice gracefully curved spine that have been brutalized on stones as if they had a straight edge and straight spine. You can spot them by the excessive spine wear in the middle and the middle bevel rarely gets sharp.

When you correct that bevel, a simple curve will still have the bevel out of parallel w/ the spine and continue to be a PITA to hone. The curve of the bevel needs to follow the curve of the spine - or how the spine was originally shaped. The spine is the 'fixture' that holds the bevel at the correct angle while honing. If the bevel isn't parallel, you're forever fighting w/ it. Correction is a long process. Don't be in a hurry to come off your course stone or diamond plate. With a heavy grind it might want several sessions. One long session can tax one's patience & care.

Its a handsome piece. After some labor, 'should give the joy you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

Look up "ken hawkley" he has a pdf showing all sorts of details of razors written by a sheffield razor grinder, rattlers are kind of like frameback blade thickness, but ground down from a wedge shaped razor. So like a heavy frameback. If you find the PDF you will see what i mean, and you will find out what a grob is too :)

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Is it Ken Hawley, you mean?

Actually it could look like this.
Rather than just swooping the edge. My preference would be to come in from the tang & shorten the edge length.
It's a big job but check out the work of some of the guys in the classifieds. They can do it.

Hi Aldwyn, Its not that the smile needs to go - it just needs to parallel the spine surface. The spine is curved - so there should be a curve to the bevel. In the photo w/ the magic marker, the curvature has no relation to the curve of the spine. In theory, the thickness of the spine (at the point it contacts the hone) is supposed to be about 1/4 the height of the blade. This works out to about a 15 deg. angle. If this ratio is not maintained, you'll be fighting to have bevel contact while honing where bevel isn't the same distance from the spine wear surface. This difficulty is where the guys go wrong & grind out the smile, thinking their straight stroke is supposed to do the trick. As the honorable Glen shared, the stroke needs to be either an arc, or some are able to have a rolling X-stroke connect w/ the whole length of a smiling blade. Before either stroke can be used, the bevel needs to be the same distance from the spine wear surface. If the spine is curved, the bevel needs to stay parallel (same distance) from the spine and curve with it. Then your rolling X or arcing stroke will smoothly traverse the entire length. And you'll have the smoothness we all want. I very much share your fondness for the smiling blade. Any more, I don't buy for personal use unless it has one. Best of luck w/ 'er. BTW - When Onimaru speaks about resto or honing, I listen carefully. There was stuff I didn't understand at the time, but kept remembering - and then the light came on while working a blade. I remain grateful for his kindness.

Pinklather makes some valid comments there & any solution for that razor is a compromise.
I imagine there may be some extra spine wear incurred after the repair & rehone but ces't la vie.

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Originally Posted by Hart

Is it Ken Hawley, you mean?

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Yes, sorry that's the feller. I have the PIF on my phone, i just couldn't link it. Cheers hart

Thanks a bunch, gents! I absolutely appreciate the thoughts and advice!

As a newby to straight shaving, I have much to learn indeed... but feel I am in good company here. Appreciate it!

Off to gssixguns...

Update:

Got the razor back from Glenn today. I am quite pleased with his fix!

Shaved with it just now... MUCH MUCH better! Great shave all over.

Thanks, Glenn!

I will try and get a picture some time this wee so you guys can see what he ended up doing.

Ok, sorry for the delay... but here it is now! Proper smile, and all!

Attachment 182206

Again, many thanks to Glen for setting me up with a proper shaver!