Shaving Against the Grain

I'm one who has fairly coarse, very dark facial hair and I need to shave against the grain to look and feel completely clean shaven and get that BBS shave. I've always shaved like this with cartridges and DE razors. So far in my straight razor shaving journey, which has only been a month or so, I can shave with and across the grain very comfortably with zero irritation most of the time. Now it does get closer than a DE can going XTG, but it's still not as smooth as I like it to be. And this is fine, I am still learning and not expecting any overnight miracles. I just do a final pass with my DE to clean up. I am thinking though that I will have to go against the grain to really get the smoothness I am used to experiencing. I try an ATG pass every few shaves to see if I'm good enough to do it, but most of the time I stick to WTG and XTG. ATG is getting better and easier, but I always have a little bit of irritation.

My question for those of you who shave against the grain, how long did it take you to develop your skill to do so comfortably? This is more of a curious question. I am happy with my skill progression and have no desire to rush the learning process. I am just curious as to how others have progressed in this skill.

Guitarguy118, it took me a couple of months to get the hang of ATG. For the first few attempts it was the one pass that I always managed to cut myself on. You'll soon learn the correct angle and pressure that works for you. Trial and error! Good luck!

To me i dont need the AGT pass on my cheek but i have to do it on the neck. I found that the lowest angle You can use the better it shave so to my opinion shave the blade as flat as possible whit still no pressure, this just my opinion of course but it did work for me. Gino

I find that I get better results ATG with my smaller blades.
This may be because they a a bit stiffer than 6/8 &bigger full hollows.
Also I do tend to use a shallower angle when going ATG.
For me 5/8 &smaller give the best results.
Cheers Paul

The big thing is that the ATG is almost a cleanup pass. You should be at the point you are getting a DFS on your WTG pass or passes before going ATG.

I started ATG after maybe a month. Started with my neck and then worked my way up the jaw line and cheeks a little at a time, as I began to feel comfortable with it. For myself, I found that if I didn't feel comfortable, I stopped and tried again later. It will come soon enough.

I do a three pass shave everyday now.

Having a "true shave ready edge" on your razor and learning to stretch your skin taut makes ATG shaving much easier.

You definitely want to make sure your blade is really sharp.
And you definitely want to stretch properly.

I started getting doing ATG a little bit at a time and just added more areas as I felt comfortable. I think I was about 2 months in when I was finally able to do my whole face comfortably and another month before I could do it without having to clean up with a more modern razor.

Take it slow and it will come.

I'm not really worried, my shaves so far have been very enjoyable! I'm really loving the process of the straight razor, and my shaves are definitely getting better. I definitely have skin stretching down, it's nice and tight especially shaving ATG. And thinking of ATG as a "clean up" pass is actually helpful. I'll have to pay attention to how close my WTG pass is next time I shave. I have thought about the sharpness of the blade issue too. I got my razor from the classifieds here at SRP and I'm sure it came very sharp and shave ready, but I suppose it's a possibility I've made the edge less than perfect since then. Is there any way to check the condition of the edge without sending my razor out to someone? There is zero tugging going WTG and only minor tugging XTG/ATG but it's not enough to rule out technique as an issue.

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Originally Posted by criswilson10

You definitely want to make sure your blade is really sharp.
And you definitely want to stretch properly.

I started getting doing ATG a little bit at a time and just added more areas as I felt comfortable. I think I was about 2 months in when I was finally able to do my whole face comfortably and another month before I could do it without having to clean up with a more modern razor.

Take it slow and it will come.

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I agree completely, well said! As for checking the blade for sharpness, the best way I can do it is simply to shave with it. Some might be able to tell by other ways, but if it shaves well then it is sharp:)

I started right off trying an atg pass, but it probably took 2-3 months and a truly shave ready razor to get a bbs shave

When I started to get comfortable going ATG with a straight, I took slow and short strokes and making sure I did not add any pressure to the razor. Now it's become second nature to me.

This thread is quite pertinent to me as I feel like i am right where guitarguy is. My WTG and XTG passes are quite acceptable, but in order to get BBS or as close to it as possible I must go ATG on the neck and jawline, which I have been resorting to my trusty DE for this final pass.

I would like to get to the point where I don't need the DE, but I'm not there yet!

All of the comments here are greatly appreciated and will help to remind guys like me to have patience and use the flattest angle possible and to have no pressure on the blade for ATG.

I have only been using a straight since February and when I was a couple weeks in to this a member suggested that I get rid of my old razor and not to use it as a "crutch". I did that and for a few more weeks I did not get as good of a shave as I would have if I did the touch up but it forced me to concentrate even more on how I used the straight and to experiment, when I felt comfortable enough to do so, with new techniques.

I still am trying new angles, different hands on different passes (use both equally well, now) to get a different angle, etc.

I do against the grain on my entire face now for a finishing pass and get really great shaves that are mainly BBS.

I'm only five months in, so it will come very soon for you, too.

The keys when going ATG for it to be smooth:

1. Lay the blade almost flat against your skin. A very shallow angle when doing the stroke.
2. A truly shave ready edge. The ATG stroke is my true test for a blade's shave ready status.
3. Stretch the skin and keep it flat in front of the blade by pulling on your skin from the opposite direction the stroke is going. Or puff out your cheeks, pull your mouth to the side etc.
4. As always, watch your pressure and don't bear down on the stroke. Let the razor do the work which it will if the edge is good.

Eventually you will master this stroke as well. It's just a question of time.

It was probably a month or two after I started that I was completely comfortable with the ATG third pass. What really helped me was watching Lynn's video. If you study it when he is shaving ATG, he is keeping his arm and hand very still and almost making the strokes with his shoulder. I concentrated on that movement and in no time ATG was a piece of cake. Good luck!

Pete <:-}

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Originally Posted by Guitarguy118

...My question for those of you who shave against the grain, how long did it take you to develop your skill to do so comfortably

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It took me as long as it took to learn how to strop like a champ and keep an edge really crispy. I stropped a nice edge near to death for at least a month and then another six to really find a rhythm, the good flip, the light touch aand know a sorry strop from a great one. By then my first strop was shredded like cabbage for coleslaw and I had to break in another; between figuring out how to flatten what skin where, keep soap from drying out and not slicing off my ears, that used up at least another month. All the while I thought I had a pretty good shave and maybe I did.

Within three months or so I was shaving every which way and still trying to get shave strokes coordinnated with a face map. Shaves were OK; not much blood.

I'd say after 200 shaves I finally kept blades sharp enough to exercise a decent three-pass shave including effective scythes and, after 250+ shaves I discovered a BBS was easily in my power with 2 1/2 passes and a handful of guillotine strokes. I'll concede I am ham-handed, a slow learner and can barely drink water and breath without choking. YMMV but, I propose, no major shave if no major sharp until every razor you pick up passes a HHT in three places on the blade or, at least, pops standing arm hairs like crazy from heel to toe.

The first time I shaved ATG was with a wedge razor. It helped compensate for all the mistakes in angle & shave readiness :p

If you are worried that your blade may not be quite sharp enough, do about 5 passes on a CrOx strop, wipe the CrOx off the blade, and then strop and shave.
I had to use CrOx about once a week for the first couple of months.

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Originally Posted by criswilson10

If you are worried that your blade may not be quite sharp enough, do about 5 passes on a CrOx strop, wipe the CrOx off the blade, and then strop and shave.
I had to use CrOx about once a week for the first couple of months.

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This is about where I think I am now. I definitely notice a difference after using CrOx to refresh the blade. Anither question I have now is how big a difference does a strop make? I have one of the whipped dog strips now, but I've been thinking of a SRD strop. Does it help the edge that much? I think I have my stropping down, I haven't knicked anything and my razor is still shaving a month and a half in of near daily shaves.

I am pretty new to SR shaving. I have about 30 shaves at this point. I have always used a two pass, WTG/ ATG plus clean up with all types of shaving, (cartridge, DE, Feather Artist Club, Straight.) When I started with a straight, I was using a DE for the ATG on my neck, jaw, and chin. The biggest thing for me to get a good ATG shave is being able to stretch the skin well. I saw a suggestion to rub my fingertips on my alum bar when streching the skin, as it would help me hold it steady, even with leftover lather on my face. That was a game changer for me, as it allows my razor to slide better on short strokes. I use a very shallow angle on the ATG pass, and if it feels uncomfortable, I stop. I have only gotten a true BBS once with a straight, but every shave is getting closer now.

When I started SR shaving ATG, I took it slow and kept a light hand on the razor. I used multiple short easy strokes to build the feel for the razor (but don't let it get to a point where your skin is getting irritated), hand movement, and self confidence. Just make sure you have a good lather on when you ATG.

Plus 1 on the shallow blade angle. I rarely find the need for a atg pass but if I do the blade is almost flat against my face. But ymmv.

ABSOLUTELY on the shallow blade angle! Thanks for mentioning that.

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Originally Posted by zugbug

Plus 1 on the shallow blade angle. I rarely find the need for a atg pass but if I do the blade is almost flat against my face. But ymmv.

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I am slowly getting the technique and confidence to go ATG but still struggle with around the chin. It seems impossible to hold it still or effectively"stretch" that spot. Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Quixoticshaver

I am slowly getting the technique and confidence to go ATG but still struggle with around the chin. It seems impossible to hold it still or effectively"stretch" that spot. Any suggestions?

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That is the trickiest spot for ATG. Still, is doable assuming you have a truly shave ready edge. Try tucking your lower lip behind your lower incisives. Try stretching the chin sideways towards your jaw angle. Use short but deliberate strokes.

I started ATG with my first shave, but it was probably 3-6 months before I quit "regularly" giving myself cuts. This being said, I still get nicks from time to time on pass #2 ATG. Everybody's different. Good luck. ;)

This is just my two cents on ATG. For me keeping my face moist along with a good lather helps a great deal. In time you will learn the correct pressure and angle needed for you to get a comfortable shave without irritation. But i still have days when i get the old nick. Goodluck and good shaving.

Hi Guitarguy118,

Any improvement in getting that BBS shave with your SR? I started my SR jouney abt one month ago but I havent been able to get a BBS shave so far. I try several WTG and ATG passes but I always have to do a final pass with my Fusion to get that BBS shave.

Please let me know. Thanks.

Hey Jjbb,

No BBS with the straight yet, but it's getting closer! If I really need a true BBS shave I still need my DE razor. For now ATG with a straight irritates my face too much so I have decided to hold off on that direction for now. I've been sticking to a two pass shave, one WTG and one XTG, and trying to focus on how close and even I can get in those two directions. Particularly on the WTG pass, I try and make sure it is completely smooth to the touch in that direction afterwords. Once I started doing this and I figured out exactly how the heck to shave my chin (that was a big AHA! moment!) I have started getting very comfortable DFS shaves. Only a hint of stubble when rubbing against the grain. Most of the time it doesn't seem worth it to try for a BBS and risk irritation. I'm pretty happy with my progress so far. Im sure that with a little more practice, and once I get my blade touched up by a honing pro, I'll eventually be able to shave ATG without issues and finally achieve the elusive BBS shave with a straight.

Good luck on your journey and keep at it! One day (last week) it all seemed to click and just work for me, I'm sure you're just about there yourself!

I saw Lynn do a shave video and he shaved diagonally instead of ATG and XTG. I tried that and it works real well. Still need the ATG in touch up but its worth the try.

I didn't shave yesterday. But today's shave started ATG (all but on the neck, XTG) for a two pass shave. To me, the key is a very sharp edge, the right angle, and very little pressure. But it will take time before you get comfortable enough to do that AND to know your edge enough to confidently do that. So while you're working toward that goal, question everything. Is your prep good? Lather good? Edge good? Angle right? It'll take time. Be patient.

I need advice on the against grain issue. I bought a Thiers Issard starting kit from Adam at The Invisible Edge and have shaved with a straight razor now for about a month but I'm having hard time with everything under my jawline. My beard grows horizontally from center towards the edges of my face and I just don't seem to get the razor against the grain. I now have to shave it upwards and then downwards but this results me not getting close shave under jawline, what to try next?

My hair grows in a similar way, and skin stretching helps. I tilt my head down slightly then use one hand to pull the neck skin up over the jawbone as much as possible. This way I'm shaving on the flat surface of my cheek where it's much easier to maneuver the blade. Hope this helps!

Thanks for advice, tried to do a little stretching in front of a mirror and this seems like it could work very well.

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Originally Posted by gustus

I need advice on the against grain issue. I bought a Thiers Issard starting kit from Adam at The Invisible Edge and have shaved with a straight razor now for about a month but I'm having hard time with everything under my jawline. My beard grows horizontally from center towards the edges of my face and I just don't seem to get the razor against the grain. I now have to shave it upwards and then downwards but this results me not getting close shave under jawline, what to try next?

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Sometimes this helps

http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...ml#post1028821

&

http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...ml#post1028898

Thanks, Guitarguy118,

I made some improvements in the last days but still no BBS shave. I believe that in my case its a metter of getting to know how to use my SR at different angles. No problems with WTG or ATG pass but I still need to master XTG pass. In abt 2-3 months I'll give you an update abt my progress. Good luck and thanks again.

I tried ATG today for the first time, and for the first time, I was able to match the closeness of my DE razor. I didn't go directly against the grain, but at a slight angle (far less than XTG). It made the razor easier to handle and I had no irritation.

I have the same problem. Instead of going straight up from the neck to the jaw, I go in a diagonal from the side to the chin. Make sure your blade is sharp, light pressure, keep the blade flat and you pull the skin tight. Lynn did this in his shave video and I tried it and it works very well. If you have lose skin on your neck, the pulling the skin tight is a must. It is less irritating then against the grain. I also hold the razor like a Japanese style non folding razor, it's easier for me to control the pressure.