Painful shaves

I'm still new with a straight razor but I don't feel like my shaves are improving. I concentrate on angle and pressure and do short strokes. I think my lather is on point because I've been DEing for over 2 years now. Just quite painful to shave with. Even when I do remove most of the hair on the first pass, the 2nd pass is really smooth but can't seem to cut all the hairs no matter what angle I take. I really feel like the blade isn't sharp enough. I did the hanging hair test and couldn't get it to work (I know this isn't the end all be all in proving sharpness).

Now I know I can send out the blade to be honed by someone reputable, but I was wondering if this is a good chance for me to try my hand at honing. Now say I did end up rolling my edge when stropping or whatever, is going to a 12k hone, followed by CrOx and than stropping on linen/leather enough to get the edge back or do I have to go to a lower grit like 800 first? When you guys feel an edge just ain't sharp enough what stone do you start with? How many laps roughly on each medium? Does 5-10 strokes on 12k, followed by 5-10 on CrOx, followed by 40 linen/80-100 leather make sense?

I figure if I totally fail I can just send it for honing.

If it isn't shaving smoothly chances are it is not shave ready. I would suggest you send it out. In the meanwhile pick up a couple, or a few, vintage razors in excellent or better condition. Get your hones and work on them one at a time. Use the pro honed razor to shave with and as a benchmark to compare your own efforts. That is the way I went about it and it worked for me.

+1 on what Jimmy said, he has been at this for a while and knows his stuff. Also, I would really concentrate on learning proper shave technique first along with stropping. Practice stropping using a butter knife and when you strop your razor for shaving lay your hanging strop on a counter top until you get proper stropping technique acquired. You can also practice shaving with a butter knife until you get that down. Also try stretching your skin and use almost no pressure on the blade.......the lighter the touch, the better the shave!

Spend a little time checking out the shaving and stropping videos here on SRP. Wait until you get shaving and stropping down before even thinking about learning to hone. If you have a 12k hone handy you might give your razor some laps (50 to 100 very light) the 10 laps on the Crox and see how she does. Good luck and happy shaving!

It is hard to say what it will take to fix your blade. Without a good look at it with a loupe it's just a shot in the dark. I would think that you would be further ahead sending it out. It is really hard to learn to shave and hone at the same time.
Skin stretching as mentioned is also very important.
Do you have hones?
CrOx?

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Originally Posted by RezDog

It is hard to say what it will take to fix your blade. Without a good look at it with a loupe it's just a shot in the dark. I would think that you would be further ahead sending it out. It is really hard to learn to shave and hone at the same time.
Skin stretching as mentioned is also very important.
Do you have hones?
CrOx?

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I have a balsa wood with CrOx ready. I figured I was going to buy a 12k stone eventually. I have a pocket microscope but I wouldn't really know what to look for to be honest. I just felt at the end of the day it wouldn't hurt to try to hone it a bit and if it still didn't feel sharp I would send it off, but I guess that might be a bad idea as a beginner?

Don't go lower than that 800 grit if that is what you have to set a bevel. Do you have a quality name brand razor ? Good equipment will make it easier.

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Originally Posted by Justino14

I have a balsa wood with CrOx ready. I figured I was going to buy a 12k stone eventually. I have a pocket microscope but I wouldn't really know what to look for to be honest. I just felt at the end of the day it wouldn't hurt to try to hone it a bit and if it still didn't feel sharp I would send it off, but I guess that might be a bad idea as a beginner?

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At this point you should give the CrOx a shot. It could be all it needs. Look around the city for a 60X loupe. If the CrOx does not show up send it out and plan for the Seattle meet in September. That is probably the closest meet to you and the very best place for you to learn to hone.
It is not that you can;t learn to hone by videos and trial and error, but it will be so much easier at a meet. There is usually one in Alberta in the spring but I have heard nothing from them, other than they are really busy.

I learned to hone while learning to shave. Restored my FIL's Boker and it needed an edge. Was reluctant to send it out for fear of losing it in the mail. His straight and DE is all I have left of him.
The people telling you it is hard to do both at the same time are correct.
I shaved with edges that were fairly comfy,, but were not quite as sharp or smooth as they could be, for about a year. Now, two years in, my edges are miles above what I started with.
Get your razor pro honed. You need that benchmark to judge from.
The advice to purchase a few good quality, inexpensive vintage blades to learn on is also spot on, IMO.
Good luck, and I hope you have great shaves!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

If it isn't shaving smoothly chances are it is not shave ready. I would suggest you send it out. In the meanwhile pick up a couple, or a few, vintage razors in excellent or better condition. Get your hones and work on them one at a time. Use the pro honed razor to shave with and as a benchmark to compare your own efforts. That is the way I went about it and it worked for me.

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I would go with what Jimmy says here. I know you'd rather fix the problem yourself, but the edge is obviously not shave ready and it takes experience to know how far back you need to go or if using Chromium Oxide is the right move or not. If the bevel got rolled, none of the finishing hones will help. Are you stropping before each shave? If so how many laps? When you strop is the razor staying on the strop?

The first time you should absolutely get it honed professionally!
That way, you will know what it is supposed to feel like with a good honing.

I got an inexpensive straight razor that I knew was not shave ready to learn my honing on.

I figured that I would teach myself honing on that and, if I ruined it -- no great loss!

Turns out I got a Gold Dollar that needed major reduction on the body of the razor near the heel.
I ended up learning quite a bit about straight razor design and what was needed to get a razor into user ready condition.

That Gold Dollar was the best investment I ever made (next to my Norton waterstone starter set.)
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If you want to learn about honing, there are all sorts of videos out there on youtube (mostly by regular posters here).
Take a look at them before you do anything!

see: Straight Razor Honing for Beginners
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+for+beginners

In my limited opinion, if the honing is not working, then you need to work with slurry. Some oilstones do not work well with water but do work with slurry. If there is a problem with the lapping stone then some thick oil can also work. Do try to create slurry with some linseed oil and observe the results. And once you get metal on the slurry, you have to work away at it until you get that particular sound of metal screaming away on the stone because it has formed the edge.

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Originally Posted by Justino14

I was wondering if this is a good chance for me to try my hand at honing.

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I take this to mean that the OP has not ever honed a straight razor.

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Originally Posted by almond

In my limited opinion, if the honing is not working...

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He has given no indication of any honing being done.

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Originally Posted by almond

In my limited opinion, if the honing is not working, then you need to work with slurry.

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I have no idea why working with slurry would be considered to be the first means of trouble-shooting for honing that is not working. Though in this case honing was not done.

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Originally Posted by almond

Some oilstones do not work well with water

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That's why they are called oilstones. If they ever have been used with oil, then water would simply bead up and be pushed off of the hone with the first stroke of the blade.

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Originally Posted by almond

Some oilstones do not work well with water but do work with slurry.

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I'm not aware of any oilstone that works with slurry. What oilstone have you used with a slurry?

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Originally Posted by almond

If there is a problem with the lapping stone then some thick oil can also work.

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What problem with what lapping stone is solved thick oil?

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Originally Posted by almond

And once you get metal on the slurry, you have to work away at it until you get that particular sound of metal screaming away on the stone because it has formed the edge.

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I have no idea what this means.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I take this to mean that the OP has not ever honed a straight razor.


He has given no indication of any honing being done.


I have no idea why working with slurry would be considered to be the first means of trouble-shooting for honing that is not working. Though in this case honing was not done.


That's why they are called oilstones. If they ever have been used with oil, then water would simply bead up and be pushed off of the hone with the first stroke of the blade.


I'm not aware of any oilstone that works with slurry. What oilstone have you used with a slurry?


What problem with what lapping stone is solved thick oil?


I have no idea what this means.

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I too found this post odd. Did the OP mention he had an oilstone or something?

I connected painful shave to a poor edge. So gave him tips on honing.

honing is tough for the newbie. It doesn't always work as intended at the first go. this is my experience.

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Originally Posted by almond

I connected painful shave to a poor edge. So gave him tips on honing.

honing is tough for the newbie. It doesn't always work as intended at the first go. this is my experience.

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A painful shave can have many reasons.

ThIs is the conundrum every straight shaving beginner faces:
1.) Poor shaving technique dulls the edge prematurely, requiring more (e.g. chromium oxide) stropping
2.) poor stropping will damage the edge, requiring honing,
3.) poor honing will fail to restore a sharp yet smooth edge and may breed poor shaving technique - which brings us back to step 1.


One step leads to another and unless a beginner comes to grips with all three techniques (How often do you want to send a razor to be honed by someone else?) and breaks this vicious circle a close, comfortable shave will be impossible to achieve.

The Internet may help, but a beginner needs to learn how to tell good advice from bad one - often the best method is to look for ways that the majority of shavers agree on.


It requires patience, perseverance and resilience, but we all had to go through this and in a way this may be part of what makes straight razor shaving special: you have achieved something that quite a few men would find too hard (or scary) to even try - let alone master.



Good luck



B.


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