My Experience with a Hart quarter Hollow/Near Wedge

I have been shaving with straight razors for a few months now and am getting comfortable with my technique. Most of my razors are full hollow or extra hollow. I can get comfortable great shaves with them. Recently, Classic Shaving listed some of their Hart Steel razors on sale for half the normal price. They are still on sale, but for 2/3 the regular price. I decided to broaden my collection and my experience without completely flattening my wallet by getting a Hart 6/8" with square tip on sale.

I have shaved twice with the Hart, but my experience has been rather painful and somewhat bloody.

Since the Hart is a full 3" length compared to about 2 3/4" on my other razors, I knew I would have to be careful of the tip. The tip has not been the issue. If that were the issue, I would blunt the tip.

I have gotten a couple of cuts from the blade itself. My normal practice is to adjust the angle of the blade by setting it three spine widths off my face. This usually works whether it is a 5/8", 6/8" or 7/8" blade. I do not know whether my issue is with the stiffness of the blade, the extra weight of the blade, or the lack of audible feedback. Most of my razors are "singing" blades, and I know when I have the pressure and angle right by the sound when the edge contacts my face. I do not have that audible feedback with the Hart.

I have read several posts indicating from people indicating that they use the same angle and pressure with a wedge that they use with a hollow, but I am having trouble finding the sweet spot.

Any suggestions from the wedge experts?

Sounds that you got a Hart Steel razor that is not shave ready. Any chance to post pic of the razor?

The Hart are supposed to be shave ready from the factory, but I know that shave ready means something different to everybody. Before my second shave, I did strop on .5 and .25 micron CBN and that helped some, but did not eliminate the issue.

I do have a full set of Naniwa Sharpening Stones (new SuperStones) all the way up to 12K. If I cannot fix the problem with shaving technique, I will reset the bevel and take it through the entire sequence. I understand that Hart razors are honed with one ply of tape, so I would use the tape. On hollow ground razors, I do not normally use tape.

No difference with angles for me on my Harts. Maybe two spine widths if I had to guess. I do reset the bevels and hone them without tape though.

I killed the edge on my Hart and plan to reset the bevel tomorrow. I will probably go with tape the first time I hone it. The next time, I might skip the tape. I will let you know how it turns out after honing.

The only Harts they had on sale were the satin finished razors. The grind marks were as bad as those on Gold Dollar razors. It will take quite a bit of work to polish out the grind marks. While I expect that on a cheap Chinese razor, it is not something I would expect on a US made razor that lists for nearly $300. So I am not impressed with Hart Steel. If I had not gotten the razor on sale for half of the list price, I would have returned it.

I shave the same with my wedges and hollows. The hollow grind blades give more feedback and I prefer them for daily shaving, but the wedges are terrific for multiple day's growth! Hopefully once you get the edge fixed up it will be better for you:)

Classic was sold and we suspect the Harts may not be the same as they used to be. Time will tell. You're experience is not encouraging.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Classic was sold and we suspect the Harts may not be the same as they used to be. Time will tell. You're experience is not encouraging.

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I started setting the bevel on my blade this morning using tape, but I cannot seem to get it set uniformly on both sides, even though the tape is applied evenly. I am going to remove the tape and try again. I think there are places the spine needs to be worn down slightly to get an even bevel.

I was aware that Classic was sold to The Grooming Network who also owns Grimm Blades. Shortly thereafter, they put the satin finished Harts on sale. My speculation is that this might be one of the Harts from their earlier years before the craftsmen "honed" their skills, pun intended. The razor does bear the initials of the craftsman, so it was made after Tim Zowada became involved.

It is my understanding that Tim also consulted with Grimm Blades for a while, but is no longer involved with either company.

Grimm Blades and Hart Steel seem to be made with similar tool steel and with similar heat and cryogenic treatment, probably due to Tim's influence. The primary difference between the blades seems to be in the degree of grind. I wonder if TGN will drop the Hart Steel brand entirely and manufacture all blades under the Grimm name, but keep the difference in grind, or will Hart disappear entirely? Only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by RayClem

Grimm Blades and Hart Steel seem to be made with similar tool steel and with similar heat and cryogenic treatment, probably due to Tim's influence. The primary difference between the blades seems to be in the degree of grind. I wonder if TGN will drop the Hart Steel brand entirely and manufacture all blades under the Grimm name, but keep the difference in grind, or will Hart disappear entirely? Only time will tell.

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I love vintage blades, they were done the right way.

I was finally able to get a decent shave off the Hart. Initially, I tried to hone the Hart using tape, but never got a decent bevel. I then removed the tape, killed the edge and went through the entire honing process from 1K all the way up to 12K on Naniwa superstones. I stropped on clean cloth to remove any honing abrasives, then on green CrOX on Balsa, 0.5 micron CBN on Balsa, 0.25 micron CBN on basswood and finally on clean cloth to remove any remaining compound. I then finished on Tony Miller bridle leather. With that process, I was able to get a decent shave, but still not as comfortable as with my "singing" razors.

In my collection I have vintage Wostenholm and Shumate blades, a few Gold Dollars that I purchased to develop honing skills, a Ralph Aust, Boker silver steel, Dovo Bismark, Razoir Sabre Le Grelot, and now the Hart.

I get great shaves using every straight except two. One is a vintage Shumate 5/8 Irish point. The other is the 6/8 Hart square point. Both of those blades were made in the USA; one is vintage, one is modern. Other than the country of origin, the other trait that these two blades share is that neither give significant audible feedback. All my other razors, including the Gold Dollars are "singing" blades, although the 6/8 Boker silver steel extra hollow and the 7/8 Le Grelot give the most feedback.

As a lifelong musician, perhaps I am relying on the audible feedback from a "singing" razor as an integral part of the shaving process for me. I know some have said they do not like the "noise" from a singing razor, but for me, it is music in my ears.

Does anyone else have problems with razors that give little auditory feedback?

I've learned to mute that out as I am thinking of other things during my shave. It took a while but I was able to get all of my Harts shaving at the top of the spectrum. Don't give up. The 01 tool steel loves stropping.

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Originally Posted by RayClem

As a lifelong musician, perhaps I am relying on the audible feedback from a "singing" razor as an integral part of the shaving process for me. I know some have said they do not like the "noise" from a singing razor, but for me, it is music in my ears.

Does anyone else have problems with razors that give little auditory feedback?

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I am a musician as well and prefer full hollow grinds, my romance with wedges was short lived. I enjoy the auditory and sensory feedback, and I subscribe to the theory that full hollows shave closer.

My instrument of choice is typically a 6/8 or higher Solingen with a finely executed hollow grind.

My experience has been that while you can get a beautifully close shave with a wedge ground razor, they demand more attention to technique. As others have observed it's the lack of audible feedback that's mostly responsible, although there is also a lack of sensory feedback that plays into it as well.

Update on my Hart 6/8" quarter ground.

I looked at my edge with a USB microscope and was concerned about the deep scratches in the grind that went all the way into the bevel. I decided to rehone the razor, initially without tape. I went all the way back to a 220 Naniwa superstone and set the bevel until it would shave hair on my arm. I then took it through my normal sequence of Naniwa 1K...12K. On the lower stones, I started with slurry and then diluted to water. Although sharp, the edge was still not great.

Finally, I added a layer of tape and took the razor to a Chinese 12K, starting with slurry and then finishing with water. This double bevel definitely made the edge more comfortable. I might even try it again with two layers of tape.

If I had paid the full price for the razor, I would have been quite upset. You should not have to hone a "shave ready" razor multiple times. Since I paid only $135 plus a $20 upgrade for Cocobolo scales, I decided to keep it. The experience of multiple honings, while not fun, did teach me more about how to handle the honing of problem razors. Although the Hart was a new razor, I had to treat it as if were a vintage restoration.

Currently, Classic Shaving is listing a sale price of $125 on Hart satin finish razors. Cost for anything other than black plastic scales will be extra. They are not showing any polished blade production Hart razors. Polishing the blade would have eliminated the issue I experienced with grind scratches. Even at the current sale price, however, I cannot recommend purchasing the satin finished razors.

Classic Shaving is still listing Hart Custom razors. Hopefully, the quality of workmanship that goes into these higher priced razors will be far better than mine. However, I won't be spending my money on one of them.

I have a Hart 7/8. I would have put it up for sale but I would not feel right taking someone's money for it. It's a lousy shaver and doesn't take good edge. But it looks nice. Once honed, it gives one good shave and the edge is gone. You can get as ha able edge on it but never a great edge. And it never lasts. I haven't used it in many, many months.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I have a Hart 7/8. I would have put it up for sale but I would not feel right taking someone's money for it. It's a lousy shaver and doesn't take good edge. But it looks nice. Once honed, it gives one good shave and the edge is gone. You can get as ha able edge on it but never a great edge. And it never lasts. I haven't used it in many, many months.

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Wow, sounds like it may have lost its temper or missed that step. Both of my Harts take and hold a great edge that lasts.

Have you contacted them about the poor performance. As a smaller type manufacturer, I would think that they would make it right.

I wanted to post what I hope to be the final update on my Hart 6/8 quarter hollow that has been the subject of this thread. Yesterday, I received a new 5 MP USB microscope, so I decided to pull out the hones and try again on the Hart, checking every step along the way under the microscope.

Previously, I had been able to get a respectable edge using a double bevel, but that was not keen enough for my liking. Thus, I decided to hone without tape. I completely killed the edge to remove any microchips and started by setting the bevel on a Naniwa 1K. I then proceeded through a series of Naniwas up through 10K with no microchips. Earlier, I had gotten some microchips on my 12K, so I decided to move from the 10K to natural stones. I used an ILR to remove the 10K scratches, but it left some scratches of its own. I finished on a C12K, leaving a hazy finish. There were no microchips. Here is a photo of the edge. You can also see in the photo some of the deeper scratches that extend through the face of the razor into the bevel.


Attachment 259015

I probably could have achieved an even better edge, but I did not want to take a chance on over-honing. I was afraid I might get microchips and have to start over.

The blade still does not shave as well as my full hollow blades, but it does meet my minimum standards for a shave ready edge. Since I purchased the razor at a steep discount, I never expected the razor to be in pristine condition. However, I did expect to be able to produce a shave ready edge. Although it took some effort to get there, I am satisfied with my decision to keep the razor. As long as it shaves satisfactorily, I can live with the scratches in the face of the blade.

I have hone a few Hart razors and they have all, been problematic. They are very hard and prone to chipping.

Removing a bit of the edge, seems to improve and hold an edge. They all were chippy.

I recall reading somewhere, that they were originally honed with a Micro Bevel for this reason. I suspect that because they are hard, most folks use more pressure with synthetic stones, causing more chipping.

I have had good luck honing Harts on lapping film, after setting a solid bevel on a 1k and removing 1k stria on a 2k, then move to film.

While you edge looks straight, there is a lot of random stria, that could be removed and leave a straighter, keener, smoother edge. Try some film and strop on CBN on a hanging strop.

A Jnat edge, that also might work well.

Thanks Euclid440.

You mentioned that removing a little extra metal might reduce the chipping issue. Perhaps that is what I have done through my multiple attempts at honing with and without tape.

On synthetic stones, especially the hard 12K, excessive pressure will destroy the edge. Thus, I have learned to hone with the same light pressure I use when shaving.

I have not tried lapping film, but I do have a Tsushima ocean blue stone that has given me great edges on several other blades. I know it can give me a better edge than the one shown in the photo above. However, I need to be careful so I do not get back into chipping.

I know that a lot of American razor craftsmen (Hart, PRC, Nate's straights, Grim Blades and perhaps others) are using O1 tool steel and use a combination of heat tempering and cryogenic hardening and quarter hollow grinding. I know that those companies can all produce good razors, but with my unfortunate experience, I am hesitant to try another one. I know that Hart is trying to emphasize custom razors. I hope they have figured out how to eliminate the chipping issue.

The originals were chippy bastards because they were at 12-13 degrees so they needed 2 layers of tape

The ones after that first 6 months or so were good and have been until the last 6 months or so

We are now back to the chippy bastards and 2 layers of tape or a Micro bevel works (same angle)

Last week was Hart week up here I had 5 cross the hones 4 newer ones (chased chips) and one I had honed in the past (easy peasy)

I have the three Hart razors all that take and hold an edge. Two are satin finishes and do not have the grind marks your razor has. It looks like the quality has really dropped off.

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Originally Posted by Keithmax

I have the three Hart razors all that take and hold an edge. Two are satin finishes and do not have the grind marks your razor has. It looks like the quality has really dropped off.

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Sad isn't it? Their legacy of nice American craftsmanship and quality razors destroyed by greed.

It was so exciting to see new production American made razors coming from a company who had some excellent advice and assistance in start up. Looks as if all the pieces fell apart and this is what is left. I am a proud owner of a Portland Razor Company straight, and they seem to be doing things correctly. Nice people, good product and excellent communication. I shipped a razor back to be honed on Monday, March 6 by regular mail. They received it, honed it, and it was in my mail box today, March 11. This was from Tulsa to Portland and back. Not promoting PRC for any reason other than to confirm good work is done by good people, and it should be recognized and supported.

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Originally Posted by RayClem

I killed the edge on my Hart and plan to reset the bevel tomorrow. I will probably go with tape the first time I hone it. The next time, I might skip the tape. I will let you know how it turns out after honing.

The only Harts they had on sale were the satin finished razors. The grind marks were as bad as those on Gold Dollar razors. It will take quite a bit of work to polish out the grind marks. While I expect that on a cheap Chinese razor, it is not something I would expect on a US made razor that lists for nearly $300. So I am not impressed with Hart Steel. If I had not gotten the razor on sale for half of the list price, I would have returned it.

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I have been shaving 'straight' for about 16 months now, I started with a Revisor and then moved onto a Henckels, both of these I can say with hindsight were SR. I then bought a new DOVO Encina that was definitely not SR. All were extra hollow grind. Last October I purchased a PRC Hydra, this is easily the nicest razor I have owned/used, like your Hart it's a 1/4 grind; I use it every day and it holds a beautiful edge without any particular maintenance other than a daily strop. I did not find any issue moving from the hollow grinds to the 1/4, and I don't think my shaving style has altered to any measurable degree. I would say the feedback from the Hydra is just as good as anything else I have used, but this may be the way the bevel is finished on the PRC, it seems wider than on the Harts?

Note: I have tended to sell current razors before acquiring new, but I would not part with my PRC Hydra, I rather think I will be buying a custom from them just as soon as I have decided what I want.

I love the feel of my new 6/8 hart but have to say it's not shave ready. No matter how I prep, lather or strop it never feels like it glides like my Dovo that was honed prior to shipping.

I've been shaving with Hart razors exclusively for the last couple of years. I have two of the Custom Harts from Classic that were made by Bruce Gregory. They hold an edge for six months or longer with regular stropping and are a joy to shave with.

Although my Hart experience has been fantastic, I pay a lot of attention to other people's experiences with the company in the forums, on YouTube, etc. and from what I have seen, unless it is a higher end razor, you can pretty much count on it showing up not shave ready. I've seen this again and again and again.

So, if you see a great deal on a Hart, I'd pull the trigger, knowing that your gonna spend a little more money or time getting it dialed in. If you see a so-so deal, I'd probably pass. But big thumbs up from me on the Hart customs if you got the dough!

Hello there, I have at least 10+ Harts I am at work so its a guess! I have had a speedy and painful learning experience in honing them. First off the steel is hard but does not like pressure WHAT!!!

So how do you set bevels and progress up the latter safely? I do not claim to have figured everything out here.

I use 1 layer of tape. When setting the bevel I don't use heavy pressure (light to a gentle medium at most) I let the stone do the cutting with one exception I refresh the surface of the 1k chosera once the surface smooths out, I do this until the bevel is set which could be a minimum of 3 times to more depending on the bevel size, but the bevel will be set without issue lurking as I move up the progression so I have found. It is worth it to set the bevel with light pressure on these harts!

After the bevel is set I move up the progression using enough (light) pressure to keep the blades edge torqued to the stone until scratches are removed on each stone (even the finishing stone), also during the progression I have found with certain stones cutting ability you may have to refresh the surface a couple of times. I have tried this process with synths and naturals with great success. I have even set the bevel the way mentioned above and went straight to a natural finisher until it was done and had great results too.

The strokes I use for each stone are circles, small back and forth strokes up and back down the stone and finishing X strokes to even out the sides. I don't count I go by feel, sight and physical results.

The key with harts "maybe" is using pressure is blaspheme LOL! The blades steel seems to enjoy finesse rather than force.

YMMV!!! Hope this helps, or at least it is worth a try :)

Thanks dshaves for your detailed explanation.

My experience agrees with yours. I have to treat my Hart with "kid gloves" while honing. I did not have too much trouble setting the bevel on a 1K Naniwa SS, but as I progressed up to higher grits, the pressure had to decrease to nothing but the weight of the razor in order to prevent chipping.

The edge was not sharp enough for me with tape, so I kept working with it until I could hone it without tape. The last time I shaved with it, I got a decent shave.

I just hope I can maintain the edge. With most razors, you can refresh on higher grit stones. However, if the edge develops chips, you have to kill the edge and reset the bevel. That will make the razor wear out much faster, but in the case of my razor, that might not be such a bad thing. It is definitely not a razor destined to become a family heirloom. I am sure some Harts are worthy of that honor, but not mine.

The Hart I had was too labor intensive. I sold it.

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Originally Posted by RayClem

Thanks dshaves for your detailed explanation.

My experience agrees with yours. I have to treat my Hart with "kid gloves" while honing. I did not have too much trouble setting the bevel on a 1K Naniwa SS, but as I progressed up to higher grits, the pressure had to decrease to nothing but the weight of the razor in order to prevent chipping.

The edge was not sharp enough for me with tape, so I kept working with it until I could hone it without tape. The last time I shaved with it, I got a decent shave.

I just hope I can maintain the edge. With most razors, you can refresh on higher grit stones. However, if the edge develops chips, you have to kill the edge and reset the bevel. That will make the razor wear out much faster, but in the case of my razor, that might not be such a bad thing. It is definitely not a razor destined to become a family heirloom. I am sure some Harts are worthy of that honor, but not mine.

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I have a hart 7/8" that has been my nemesis! I was helped by Bejay on srp to properly set bevels. I finished the razor on a small jnat, it shaved very well but I knew there was more to have so I took it to my SG8k refined the edge more, then finished the edge on the same small jnat again this time the results were amazing! The point is when I went to refresh the edge spending some good time on two stones the edge held up fine no chips! This particular hart is an early one because the jumps are almost nonexistent...I fully agree with the kid gloves reference!!! Attachment 259403

I own a PRC razor. But I got one of the Hart's discounted ones. Terrible edge. I sent it yesterday to PRC for honing.