Having trouble with first straight razor

Hi gents

I've done a search regarding my question but unable to find the exact answer. So i apologize in advance if I'm repeating.
I've been using a double edge for almost 5 years, a feather artist shavette for almost 3 years. I was recently gifted my first straight - a custom carbon steel from koraat knives in austria. I also got the strop-it paddle with leather on 1 side and canvas on the other. Obv I was on top of the moon. Did my usual pre shave routine... Shower, hot water Face towel with eucalyptus essential oils, badger lather with aqua di Parma shaving cream... Stropped 25 laps over leather followed by 15 over canvas side, and started the test shave.

I experienced quite a bit of pulling and tugging and I had to use quite a bit more pressure compared to the fearher artist shavette. Also the shave wasn't as close as what I'm used to. Koraat has sent the razor shave ready they say. Did the hanging hair test which it kinda failed cause the hair didn't exactly slice apart but just scraped and broke after a lot of attempts.

Now the questions....
1. Assuming the blade is actually shave ready... What did I do wrong? Was I not supposed to strop before the first shave. If I was to strop it, did I not strop enough?
2. Assuming the blade is shave ready... Is it normal for it to feel less sharper than the shavette? In which case is it just another learning curve?
3. Assuming the blade is shave ready... What can I do to get it sharper? Do I need to strop more than I did? The strop paddle came with red diamond paste. Should I try stropping with it or is it too soon?
4. If the blade is indeed not sharp enough... What can I do to get it sharper if stropping isn't enough. I live in Dubai and I doubt there is anyone offering honing services. Do I have to send it back to koraat? Considering The freight charges will be prohibitive back and forth is there another alternative?

Peace... Satyen

I am going to make an assumption that the Koraat was shave ready as I have not heard anyone complain of them not being so. If this is the first time you have stropped a straight razor you could easily have dulled the edge by poor stropping technique. It may have been better to have shaved without stropping it first. Stropping it before your second shave would let you know if you are dulling the edge stropping if the edge feels duller on the second shave.

The normal routine is to strop on the canvas side first, about 20 laps, and then on the leather, about 60 laps.

You did not say if your shaves are multi pass shaves. Normally, about 3 passes are needed to get a close shave. You gradually reduce the whiskers rather than eliminate then in one pass.

I wish I had a suggestion for you next move. You could try stropping more but if your technique is not good I don't see that doing much good. Same would apply to using the red paste. OTH what have you got to loose? It is that or send it out for honing.

Bob

There is another member in Dubai. The only reason I even remembered is he has two locations on his location notice.
I have not shaved with the feather shavette, so I am only going by what I have heard. You need to shave with less angle with a straight compared to a shavette. Also it would have been better to have not stropped the blade before hand, however it is done. Typically you would strop linen then leather. I am an excessive stropper and strop about 60 linen and around 100 leather. Stropping technique is as or more important than anything else with straights. The blade needs to be perfectly flat on the strop and passed over the strop, with no downward pressure, spine leading. If you lift the spine off the strop even a little you will deteriorate the edge, fairly quickly in fact. It is unlikely that you will have a 30x loupe to use to examine the edge, but if you do that will be very handy. Check your edge if you can and try again. Be very diligent in your stropping. If you are careful with your stropping you might be able to get that edge back, if that is what the problem is, or get your technique under you. Good luck, remember good stretching and no pressure.

Sorry for the outcome. Rule #1 is to shave with a freshly honed razor before you strop it. That way you know what a sharp blade feels like. Now you will not know if the blade was shave ready. Stropping Rule #1 is to use the cotton side first to clean the edge and then the leather side to polish the edge. Depending on your stropping technique you may bring the edge back. However, if in your technique you raised the spine up from the strop you may have rolled your edge. My best advice is to try stropping it again. Stop 30 on the rough side and 60 on the leather. The razor must be flat on the strop and the strop should be without slack. Go slow with the stropping, there is no hurry. I hope this is helpful.

I've never heard of anyone here complain about the lack of shave readiness of a Koraat razor, so I presume you damaged the edge while stropping. This is a very easy trap to fall into for beginners plus many razor makers recommend shaving with the razor without stropping for the initial run.

Sounds like you will need the blade re-honed to a shave ready state. I hope you find someone reasonably close. Good luck!

The experienced members have given you some sound advice.

All I'll add in is this; if you have the angle of the straight razor's blade Too High then you are Scraping the Whiskers Off, Not Shaving Them Off. Try lowering your angle--that is after Carefully Stropping the Razor Before the next shave.

Good luck :tu

When I got my Koraat I shaved with it without doing any stropping. An amazing shave. In fact the best I've had in a while. As those above have said I'd recommend stropping again slowly and carefully. It should "bring back" your edge to shave ready. I see no benefit in sending it back to Koraat.

Thank you!
So my next steps are going to be....
Stropping again slowly and carefully as described above. I did watch bunch of videos before stropping but obv I still messed it up. However I don't have a choice but to try again.
I do have a Jewelers loupe (since I'm a Jeweler by profession). But what exactly am I looking for? Since it's a brand new piece there are no obv abrasions etc.

Welcome to SRP. Don't be discouraged. I rolled the edge on my first shave ready razor.
General advice is Don't strop a new shave ready razor.
Haven't heard one bad review on Koorat razors so that is probably what happened.
You may possibly be able to bring it back with a strop. Take your time, spine flat on the strop. The spine is like a built-in guide for stropping and honing at the correct angle. Worst case scenario, send it to one of the members here for a re hone. Best of luck.


Sent from a moto x far far away

Also just keep in mind: Maybe you didn't do anything to the razor and it is just technique. I too shaved with a Feather for a time before a straight. I have yet to feel an edge on an actual straight that FEELS as sharp as a Feather, and I have razors honed by some top pros, and from a couple of guys here. Angle is more important too. I went down the bad angle/too much pressure road for a few days. It took me a bit to get it figured out, and not be disappointed in what turned out to be a scary sharp blade.

Good luck and have fun.

Stropping, like shaving with a straight razor or honing, looks deceptively easy to do. They are once you go through a fairly steep learning curve.

Like PickledNorthern said, you may not have rolled an edge and the problem could be just the angle you are using. I have found through using a straight razor that keeping the gap between your face and the spine to 1 or 2 spine widths works for me. Any wider and you start to scrape the whiskers off instead of cutting them.

A good slick lather rich in water but not to the point of being runny helps tremendously too.

Most new straight razor users have had similar problems to what you are experiencing so don't feel bad or get discouraged. The learning curve is much longer than most people expected when they start down this road.

Bob

gave it another shot this morning. stropped 30 laps over cotton and 60 over leather. also looked at the blade through a loupe before and after. it made a difference visibly as well as less pulling and tugging than before. but still nowhere close to where it should be . i also do realize how my prev attempt at stropping could have taken the edge off. the next step is to to strop a bit more... perhaps 50 cotton and 100 leather laps and try another shave.

I am conscious that having used the feather artist which is perhaps sharper than any SR, i have to constantly remind myself not to use additional pressure.

From my experience with a shavette I found out that when using a straight and shavette you are not comparing apples to apples. The DE blade being much thinner and the design of the shavette are two different animals, on top of that the sharpness of the DE compared to the DE in a shavette are two different levels or types of sharp. Everyone has pretty much given the best advice and you will get it figured out just takes time, stick with it and no problem soon enough.

Back to your question on the loupe and what you are looking for and what you want to see. When looking from the side, looking at the bevel you should see a perfectly straight edge with no wobbles or chippy spots. If you look down on the point of the apex while use a good light source you should not see any sparkles or white lines and it should be quite difficult to see the actual apex, as it is suppose to be very thin.
There is amazing power in the strop and it can either immensely improve your edge or destroy it. Once it deteriorates to a certain point only honing will help. I expect you will have a handle on this very soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Satyen

Hi gents

I've done a search regarding my question but unable to find the exact answer. So i apologize in advance if I'm repeating.
I've been using a double edge for almost 5 years, a feather artist shavette for almost 3 years. I was recently gifted my first straight - a custom carbon steel
.....
Now the questions....
1. Assuming the blade is actually shave ready... What did I do wrong? Was I not supposed to strop before the first shave. If I was to strop it, did I not strop enough?
2. Assuming the blade is shave ready... Is it normal for it to feel less sharper than the shavette? In which case is it just another learning curve?
3. Assuming the blade is shave ready... What can I do to get it sharper? Do I need to strop more than I did? The strop paddle came with red diamond paste. Should I try stropping with it or is it too soon?
4. If the blade is indeed not sharp enough... What can I do to get it sharper if stropping isn't enough. I live in Dubai and I doubt there is anyone offering honing services. Do I have to send it back to koraat? Considering The freight charges will be prohibitive back and forth is there another alternative?

Peace... Satyen

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I see good answers from yesterday.

In general do not strop a shave ready razor for the first shave.
The reason is that a novice stropping a new razor might get it a little or a lot wrong
thus never know how good the edges was to start. Many honemasters include such instructions for
the first shave. When the first shave is finished a light visit to the strop will clean the edge. Strop normally
the next day for the second shave. Depending on the razor a couple on the canvas then five to twenty on the leather.

I would smoothly strop the razor and shave the easy bits of my face and if necessary finish the shave
with my trusty older razor. I suggest this because the angle and feel of the new razor is going to
be different enough that some practice is called for.

Call the seller and ask for advice especially on the shave ready claim.

Honing will be needed eventually. They state that they harden their steel to about 61-62hrc
so a modern hone is called for. If there is no one locally you have a couple choices to hone your own.

Since the razor (one) was shave ready I would look first at a pressure sensitive lapping film
using fine finishing and polishing grit sizes. These two from 3M ...
0.3mic S/O PSA Lapping Film 8-1/2" x 11"
1 mic S/O PSA Lapping Film 8-1/2" x 11"
Mount on a flat plate glass, steel or granite surface anything quite flat and waterproof.

If you had more than one razor I would quickly look at the more expensive water stone hones
like Shapton, Naniwa etc. Film is not durable enough to hone many razors but for one or two sure.
A 1 micron abrasive film is close to a 16000 grit hone and the 0.3 micron film is close to a 30000 grit
hone so there is no reason to get anything finer. You might also get a sheet of 5 micron film at the same time.
Lapping film is not as nice a honing material as the best water stone hones but since you like the Artist
razor edge and shipping the razor to and from the maker is expensive this seems like a working solution.

In my experience 0.3 micron film will give a crazy sharp almost harsh edge. Most would not like it as
it is in the harsh Feather end of the spectrum but you like your Artist.

If the razor was not "shave ready" a fourth grit of about 15 to 12 micron might be needed to reset the bevel.
The crazy sharp wood workers are fans of these pressure sensitive (PSA) films. So look at wood working
and machine shops for local sources. Fresh films sharpen steel very fast with almost no pressure be gentle.

Make sure the edges of the glass plates are eased (dull) so they do not cut you.

Do consult with the seller.









The Feather blades in the Feather Artist Club Razor Artist are famously sharp.
Many consider them to be too sharp. A steel open blade straight razor is unlikely
to be sharper but for many will be smoother and less harsh.

What did I do wrong? Was I not supposed to strop before the first shave.

Yup, It was shave ready and you rolled the edge, easy to do on a paddle strop.

Too much downward pressure or lifting the spine from the strop will roll the edge, if you do the same on the other side, you begin to flex and break the edge.

Keep in mind that you cannot see the true edge with less than 1000 power magnigication, an SEM.

Most probably more stropping will not repair the damage and will have to be re-honed or touched up, depending on the damage.

Here is a good post My Second Try at Honing, with micrographs of what an edge should look like.

It is a bit long, but post 42, page 9, Photos 4 & 5 (upper right-hand corner) show and edge that is close, (not fully set). Post 51, page 11, first photo, shows a fully set bevel, looking straight down on the edge.

Stropping is a difficult skill to learn, it is not uncommon for new shavers to cause more damage than make improvement with a strop. And it can take some time to learn to improve an edge with a strop.

For new honers a hanging strop in easier on an edge, because it will flex more.

I'm gonna be patient and give it a few more tries with proper stropping, perhaps even try the diamond paste, at the same time focus on improving my technique. If nothing works by shave number 10 and I still feel that the edge is rolled I'm just gonna send it back to be rehoned perhaps to koraat. Unless Anyone know any other options closer to Dubai? I saw some members from India on this forum. Is there anyone offering honing services there? Or elsewhere in Asia? Like Hong Kong or Singapore?
Eventually I will have to learn how to hone myself, but the idea seems too intimidating just yet.

If I can add, when you shave whit a straight your suppose to scrape the lather. If the angle is to high your scraping your face, the blade is suppose to cut whiskers when the lather is scraped. Make sure that your lather is on the wetter side and less pasty, a wetter lather is slicker and way better for straight of course as mention your stroping is a really important the blade flat on the strop and the most important thing take your time there's no rush. The most important thing don't give up it'll come and when it will happen you would be very proud of your self.

PM me with your phone number and drop by (I am located nr. Borj Al Arab), so I can take a look at it.

I have one Koraat, and wouldn't recommend it to start straight shaving with, as it is quite heavy - the opposite of a Shavette or Feather AC - and unwieldy around corners.

If need should be, I can hone it for you and show you how I strop my razors, and you could even borrow one of my ⅝ razors to start with.

We should get this fixed before long.




B.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beluga

PM me with your phone number and drop by (I am located nr. Borj Al Arab), so I can take a look at it.

I have one Koraat, and wouldn't recommend it to start straight shaving with, as it is quite heavy - the opposite of a Shavette or Feather AC - and unwieldy around corners.

If need should be, I can hone it for you and show you how I strop my razors, and you could even borrow one of my ⅝ razors to start with.

We should get this fixed befoe long.




B.

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Excellent! [emoji1]

Hi Satyen,

I offer a honing service in the UK if you wish you can send me the razor and I will hone the razor plus I'll give your razor a shave as well just to make double sure so to speak.

Thanks beluga... ur a lifesaver!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Papabear11

If I can add, when you shave whit a straight your suppose to scrape the lather. If the angle is to high your scraping your face, the blade is suppose to cut whiskers when the lather is scraped. Make sure that your lather is on the wetter side and less pasty, a wetter lather is slicker and way better for straight of course as mention your stroping is a really important the blade flat on the strop and the most important thing take your time there's no rush. The most important thing don't give up it'll come and when it will happen you would be very proud of your self.

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just wanted to say thanks for this.
im constantly reminding myself to scrape the lather and not the face.
which has reduced my razor burn tremendously!
even though i still might be like 96 shaves away from mastering the art!

I skimmed through this thread and did not notice anyone mentioning a potential problem. When you shave with a shavette, you use a much higher angle than you do with a straight razor. You need to keep the spine quite close to you skin. Experiment with a lower angle and you may find that the razor will work much better.

I really don't think that you should try the diamond paste yet. Get a better handle on your shaving and stropping before you start trying to remove steel.

I finally met up with beluga who is mentoring me through it. He graciously touched up my blade on a series of naniwa stones, gave me some super tips on technique and corrected my stropping. So now its down to practice and patience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck to you on your journey. It should be quite a bit easier now that you have a mentor near by.

Bob

Having someone you can see in person is such a valuable asset! There's is big difference between all the advice and videos you can find online, and actually seeing it done in person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Satyen

I finally met up with beluga who is mentoring me through it. He graciously touched up my blade on a series of naniwa stones, gave me some super tips on technique and corrected my stropping. So now its down to practice and patience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Hands on learning can't be beat! You learn more in a few hours than you can from months of reading and watching videos!

By the way--you ended your post on a perfect note! "So now its down to practice and patience".:tu