Conflicting information between Dovo and some Forum Members

Hi,
I just read at the Dovo web site (dovo.com) question 5 from the FAQ Section. It states that "if the razor is stropped too soon (after shaving) the "fin" ...breaks off". The inference here is NOT to strop a razor immediately after shaving, but to wait at least 24 hours, which will allow the edge to realign itself a bit. I have read on this forum that a number of you strop immediately after shaving. Do you feel Dovo's information is correct, incorrect, outdated, etc.? Personally, since I shave with a Dovo, I'll follow their advice, but perhaps, it doesn't matter if many of you strop after shaving without any negative results. A little confusion here!

I've also herd this, but i do on occasion strop after i shave and i see no difference. I guess this could be true though

If I recall correctly, someone did a test on stropping 30 times before, 30 after, and split. From what was posted, there was little difference as to whether it was before or after.

What about those who strop in the middle of shaving as well? If what the Dovo FAQ states is correct, that would certainly ruin the edge, wouldn't it?

I generally do not strop after a shave, but have on occassion and saw no damage or difference to the edge. It seems strange to me that the fin could break off in this process :hmmm:

I know it is accepted practice in sharpening knives and woodworking tools to use a piece of leather to remove a wire edge after sharpening. The fine edge snaps rtight off after passing with some pressure over the leather. In theory the fin is just a smaller, not as fragile wire edge in some ways. If in perfect alignment before shaving you have a keen edge, after a shave though general opinion is that it is now deformed, or bent if you will. I think Dovo feels this bent edge may then break off if stropped too soon after.

It is thought that over a days time the edge will somewhat correct itself and may therefore be less likely to break off when stropping as it will be near it's original, aligned position.

I really don't know or think that this will really happen but I do wonder if honing too soon after would be an issue though. Here you may be physically grinding off a deformed edge before it has a chance to soemwhat realign itself (if this really does happen).

I know we had this discussion before but don't remember what the general concensus is. I'm sure this will spark some good commentary though!

Tony

It seems like after a few hundred years of using straight razors someone would actually know what is happening to the metal and whether it realigns itself or not. Don't we have any physicists on the forums?

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Originally Posted by Kyle76

It seems like after a few hundred years of using straight razors someone would actually know what is happening to the metal and whether it realigns itself or not. Don't we have any physicists on the forums?

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I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express...

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Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli

I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express...

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:roflmaoYou watch to much TV!!:roflmao

I've studied material sciences and metalurgy and although far from being even close to expert, this is my opinion based on fairly standard practice. After removing a stress from a metal, that's deformed it plastically, there will still be some return towards its original shape but, generally, this happens as the applied stress is unloaded or very rapidly after. So, on the face of it, whether you strop a minute or a week after shaving shouldn't reallly make much or any difference. Thinking about it, cutting a face full of whiskers, probably applies far greater stress perpendicular to the edge than stropping so if the fin was to chip off, this is were I'd say it would be more likely to occur.

Dovo is clear about those two items: 1) that the fin realigns itself during the first 24 hours after shaving (although they do not state to what degree it realigns itself) and 2) stropping before the 24 hours is up will break off the fin. The question then is how much it realigns itself and how much fin is there to break off. If the realignment is insignificant, then stropping immediately afterwards will have little or no noticeable negative affect on the edge, as several of SRP members have already stated. If realignment is significant over the 24 hr. period, then stropping immediately after the shave means forfeiting some advantage the blade can give us. Perhaps we will never know. Sound reasonable? So, carry on doing what you're doing!
Ron

I've read you only have to strop after several to many shaves if you give the blade 24 hours to recall its shape. When I was young, I actually heard this from some old guy who'd be considered doing everything 'wrong' by what I've read. Used some kinda tile or something to sharpen and used a belt to strop and said he has to do that every week.
Come to think of it, it was a long time ago, but I recall the guy always having stubble.

I tend to read these types of instructions with some skepticism. After all, Dovo also claims its razors are shipped shave-ready. (I'm not knocking Dovo; they make great razors. But they're rarely ready to go out of the box.)

Sometimes manufacturers make recommendations based on science and research, and sometimes it's just from the marketing department or a company tradition. For all we know, someone in Dovo's marketing department might have talked to Friggin Joe's "old guy," thereby engraining a piece of misinformation into company lore...

I think if there was anything to the "fin realignment" theory, the difference would be readily apparent. We have members who strop before a shave only, during a shave, and after the shave. The fact that none one claims to see a major benefit to letting the edge rest speaks volumes to me.

Strop away!

Josh

This is why I have about 7 razors that I shave with. Don't let anyone tell you that straight razor shaving is expensive. It only is if you buy all this crap new. Go to a pawn shop, and pick up a couple razors for 10 bucks; yeah you'll have to hone them, but then you have a lifetime supply of razors. My best razors are from second hand shops. I even found a barber hone virtually new for 5 bucks. This way, I only strop before I shave. Simple, isn't it?

Oh yeah, buy a strop from Damon. They're easier to learn on because the leather is soft, and it's less likely you'll fold the blade on one...even with mediocre technique. They're much cheaper than store bought ones too. I think he sells them for about $26 bucks!

I am curious to know why folks bother to strop after the shave anyway.

It may be bad for the razor and since folks typically strop before shaving as well why bother?

Ok so most of us are in agreement that honing every day would be bad.

It would be bad because among other things you would basically be ripping pieces of metal off the blade and ruining the very edge and bevel you worked so hard making.

Why is it such a leap to consider that over stropping or stropping too soon after shaving might also be bad perhaps removing pieces of metal and thus damaging the fins or even rounding the edge?

This old guy was real, unlike most people I knew when I was a kid, a friend of my dad's who collected antiques and was showing me stuff. As I said he was always stubbly, so he might not have actually shaved much or at all with the straight edge was just showing it to me.
I been sniffing around google, and his idea don't seem uncommon.

All of you who have stropped a Dovo after shaving must have ruined the razor. As I am a very nice guy I will accept those razors from you. Would you please hone those ruined razors before sending them?

Thanks. (This is a joke, I have enough razors and I dought you ruined your razors)

Jerry.

I've stropped midway through the shave, and it did better. I've not experienced any problems with it.

Personally, I like stropping before I shave. It helps me relax and go from this fast paced world to a slow, take your time place.

I typically strop around 60 laps before I shave on the leather, preceded by 15 laps on the linen. After a shave I strop 20 or 30 times on the leather to aid in drying. Have not seen any adverse effects on my Dovo or any other blades in my rotation.

I've seen adverse effects on my shave by not stropping enough prior to shaving.
I'm not claiming to know more than Dovo, but SRP is winning so far.
Must be some darned good metal to return to shape so well and go several shaves without stropping.
I wonder if many people used to rough it with bad info or straight shaving was so dead as a part of personal life trying to regain all the common knowledge resulted in misinfo.

http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecent...instrazor.html

FWIW , I strop my razor right before I shave with it , and I strop after honing . Stropping after shaving is like brushing your teeth before you eat . This is my opinion , and it's worth exactly what you paid for it :D .

I think Dave5+ is right on. One brushes one's teeth in the morning and one should strop one's razor in the morning. For those retentives among us, one can also strop one's razor in the evening as one brushes one's teeth before retiring. Keeping one's lips closed tightly will also prevent slobbering tooth paste suds all over the strop; although, it seems that some old barbers recommended the use of lather. Hmmm... Perhaps we now don't understand the subtleties of this old advice and assume it's shaving lather. Brushing froth -- the answer for the hurried shaver's stropping problems, could it be that simple?

brushed and ready to retire, Bruce

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Originally Posted by dave5225

FWIW , I strop my razor right before I shave with it , and I strop after honing . Stropping after shaving is like brushing your teeth before you eat . This is my opinion , and it's worth exactly what you paid for it :D .

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I think I need to clarify my statement , when I re-read it I could see how it could be misunderstood . What I meant was that it seems unnessicary to strop your razor after you shave . I wouldn't brush my teeth until after I had eaten because after I ate my teeth would need to be brushed again (for the record , I brush my teeth before I go to bed) . As Spock on the TV show Star Trek might say ; I find stropping my razor after I shave , to be highly illogical .

I generally give my razors 5 or 6 passes on the strop after I shave just to clean/dry it. I have not noticed any ill effects.

For those wanting a treatise on the subject, read an old thread "The Grand Experiment". As I recall, in this fairly well controlled experiment, when the stropping occured was less important than the total number of passes. Given the same number of passes, stropping before, after, or both seemed to make little difference in either the quality of the shave or the number of shaves before honing was required.

Thus, if stropping after a shave were in fact detrimental to the edge, the razor subjected to post-shave stropping would have needed to re-visit the hone much sooner. Given that this did not occur, seems like Dovo is (knowingly or unknowingly) spreading/perpetuating an urban legend.

Just another data point,
Ed

I'm not so certain this is wrong information. Although I don't do this now there was a time that I would only strop every third use or so. Sometimes it worked well and sometimes it didn't, which is why I strop daily now. I just couldn't get continually consistent results.
As to the fin breaking off, I think that there is also some truth in that. the way I hear people on this forum teach other people to strop (softly, no pressure) goes contrary to the way I have stropped for 15 plus years, which is with pressure (I get something like 3 to 6 months of shaves before I have to touch up a blade) It occurs to me that if you used the same pressure that I do to strop after you shave you could very well break off the fin where it is not aligned!
Most barber stropping videos also show pressure, and shaving and stropping as much as they do might present a real problem that us home shavers may not notice as quickly!

hi everyone.every time i strop after my shave with one of my dovos i have noticed some chipping on the blade.i think that now i have found out why i have honed more times (and sent out to lynn to be honed )in this past year then i thought was normal now i know.............................................. ....:w :w

Interesting. . . it may be true for a Dovo. I just pulled an article by Arthur Boon http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecent...instrazor.html and he goes into major detail about Dovo razors.

He also suggests the value of a 'rest period.'

Regards

I find if I let my razors rest for 48 hours I don't need to strop at all, and I think this gives some credence to the theory (the realignment one anyway).

I also agree that it depends on the pressure you use when stropping. I can use a light touch in the beginning of the cycle and move to more "effective" stropping later, just as JMS probably does.

I also find that the way a strop is treated is also important in the amount of damage that will occur if you strop post shave. If you use hand oils or EVVO as a conditioner little damage will ever occur. If you use sticky fats, hard soaps, or methods that create more draw you'll be more likely to create damage earlier, and with less pressure.

I've usually avoided stropping post shave as I think its a little pointless and hate getting my strop wet. But given the right circumstance and conditions I doubt its harmful.

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Originally Posted by JMS

I'm not so certain this is wrong information. Although I don't do this now there was a time that I would only strop every third use or so. Sometimes it worked well and sometimes it didn't, which is why I strop daily now. I just couldn't get continually consistent results.
As to the fin breaking off, I think that there is also some truth in that. the way I hear people on this forum teach other people to strop (softly, no pressure) goes contrary to the way I have stropped for 15 plus years, which is with pressure (I get something like 3 to 6 months of shaves before I have to touch up a blade) It occurs to me that if you used the same pressure that I do to strop after you shave you could very well break off the fin where it is not aligned!
Most barber stropping videos also show pressure, and shaving and stropping as much as they do might present a real problem that us home shavers may not notice as quickly!

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This fabled "Fin" again :roflmao

Has anyone actually got a magnified image of this oh so delicate and prehensile thing?
I can only base my opinion on what happens with my sharpening routine and this has never been affected by before and after stropping. If I could see this "fin" it may help me understand what Dovo and other rest period advocates are on about. Pictures of it deformed after a shave and after 24 hours would go some way to alleviating my doubt on the whole theory.
If this "Fin" is nothing more than a very fine bur left by slight over honing...well you can guess what I would recommend :)

PuFF (Fin Atheist)

Here's a new theory for you...

Back in the day when most men had only one razor (too expensive to duplicate needlessly), there was a small but fanatical group that really hated shaving daily. Their wives, on the other hand, really loved the BBS feel of their husbands cheek after a good shave. In order to get their wives to 'give it a rest', they fabricated the urban legend of the self repairing fin which of course required that the razor be allowed to rest. This allowed them to skip shaving every other day...for the good of the razor.

In a sense, we here at SRP have adopted this urban legend and magnified it. Now we have members telling their wives that they absolutely NEED at least 14 razors because the edge needs that much time to realign itself between shaves :roflmao

Just another data point,
Ed

I wonder if a blowdryer heating the blade followed by a freon blast would speed up the process. I'm not trying it.

I strop my Dovo 5/8 before I shave (10-15 linen passes plus 30-40 leather passes); between shaving passes (12-15 on the leather only); and after the shave (10-15 linen plus 20-30 leather). I have been using that same Dovo razor as my main daily shaver for the past 11 months with no problems whatsoever. It shaves very comfortably with no irritation or pulling and I can get a BBS shave with it any time I want. Just my opinion, but I think stropping afterwards gets rid of any little bits of corrosion-inducing elements (microscopic bits of skin cells and/or blood, soap, etc.) that might be clinging the edge and keeps it in better shape for the next shave.

I guess it's a good thing that Bob Dylan wasn't a straight razor afficianado or we might have ended up with:

Ev'rybody's building the big ships and the boats,
Some are building monuments,
Others, jotting down notes,
Ev'rybody's in despair,
Ev'ry girl and boy
But when Fin the Eskimo gets here,
Ev'rybody's gonna jump for joy.
Come all without, come all within,
You'll not see nothing like the mighty Fin.

I like to do just like the rest, I like my sugar sweet,
But guarding fumes and making haste,
It ain't my cup of meat.
Ev'rybody's 'neath the trees,
Feeding pigeons on a limb
But when Fin the Eskimo gets here,
All the pigeons gonna run to him.
Come all without, come all within,
You'll not see nothing like the mighty Fin.

A cat's meow and a cow's moo, I can recite 'em all,
Just tell me where it hurts yuh, honey,
And I'll tell you who to call.
Nobody can get no sleep,
There's someone on ev'ryone's toes
But when Fin the Eskimo gets here,
Ev'rybody's gonna wanna doze.
Come all without, come all within,
You'll not see nothing like the mighty Fin.

I find that stropping during the shave , gets the edge to the best it can give, i guess the previous stropping plus the heat of the water really prepares the edge to be really "aligned" , i always feel the best edge if i stop before hitting the neck ( after doing the cheeks) and get no irritation.
My personal experience....

Well, I have 2 Dovo's, a Bismark (wonderful blade) and a Special (which suffered from a nasty ding a few years back, before I knew this site existed). I also have two strops, one with a red, "hone" paste on, and the other with a blue, "polish" paste on (according to the 'documentation', anyway).
Anyhow, I generally give the blade a few passes on the "polish" strop before a shave, and then give it a few passes on the "hone" strop afterwards. I don't seem to notice any problems with either blade (except for my disasterous shave today, but that's another story:rant:).

Hope this helps you.

M.

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Originally Posted by Ron A

Hi,
I just read at the Dovo web site (dovo.com) question 5 from the FAQ Section. It states that "if the razor is stropped too soon (after shaving) the "fin" ...breaks off". The inference here is NOT to strop a razor immediately after shaving, but to wait at least 24 hours, which will allow the edge to realign itself a bit. I have read on this forum that a number of you strop immediately after shaving. Do you feel Dovo's information is correct, incorrect, outdated, etc.? Personally, since I shave with a Dovo, I'll follow their advice, but perhaps, it doesn't matter if many of you strop after shaving without any negative results. A little confusion here!

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