BBS with Pulling

I've been using a str8 for the past month and have had great success so far. I've managed to get BBS on all my shaves; however, I do find that my razor tends to pull a bit. This has become less evident in my recent shaves (and irritation / burn is next to none), but I would like to reduce this pulling further.

I honed the razor (a Wapienica) myself on a Norton 4k/8k and have a Tony Miller #4 Starter Strop as well. I typically give about 20 laps on the "rough" side of the strop followed by about 40 - 60 laps on the finished side.

Will going back to the 8k for a few laps help with this?

- Ken -

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Originally Posted by GoTeeGuy

I've been using a str8 for the past month and have had great success so far. I've managed to get BBS on all my shaves; however, I do find that my razor tends to pull a bit. This has become less evident in my recent shaves (and irritation / burn is next to none), but I would like to reduce this pulling further.

I honed the razor (a Wapienica) myself on a Norton 4k/8k and have a Tony Miller #4 Starter Strop as well. I typically give about 20 laps on the "rough" side of the strop followed by about 40 - 60 laps on the finished side.

Will going back to the 8k for a few laps help with this?

- Ken -

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It might help, but it sounds like your technique is the problem due to the fact that the pulling has become less and less evident with practice!

That sounds like a good idea to me.

I get pulling under almost all conditions in some areas. Holding the skin tighter and smaller strokes helps.

Is the pulling uncomfortable? Most guys seem to have some level of this with a straight. The Feather AC is the only razor I've used that doesn't pull at all. It uses machine sharpened blades. But it's so sharp that it will give you razor burn if you don't really concentrate.

My straights are more forgiving on the skin but don't quite have that same effortless glide. I prefer to keep my skin intact. :D

It sounds like you're doing really well with your honing at this stage, though. You might consider getting a pasted strop or coticule to take the edge up a notch. :)

Josh

To me when a razor starts to pull its a sign they need some quality time on the coticule. None of my razors pull, I wouldn't tolerate it. If you are sure your technique is not at fault i would either try a pasted strop or a few passes on the 8K. If you have a 12K use that.

Shaving with the heel or toe leading a bit should cut
down on the pulling sensation while you get the blade
to where you want it.

- Scott

"Pulling" is probably a subjective term.

For me, though, even the best honed straight hits some resistence as I shave my chin. It's gentle and not at all painful, but it's not the same glide I get from a Feather. I have a pretty tough beard, however. Maybe not everyone experiences this. :shrug:

Josh

Yeah same here. The only place I get pull is on the chin, but then I have to go xtg on my chin first pass due to my facial hair arrangement. I use the "chevron" approach on the rest of my face and done get any pull anywhere.

Si

Thanks for everyone's input...

The "pulling" sensation isn't really that uncomfortable, but moreso than I'd like. I also find that it is much better when I concentrate on stretching the skin more; however, this does not eliminate the sensation entirely. I will likely purchase a pasted strop in the future as I believe this may help, but for the time being I'd prefer to focus on using my existing tools (i.e., hone and strop) to their fullest potential. (I'm a bit of a minimalist, so less is better IMO.)

FWIW, I did give the razor a few more laps on the 8k, but have not found this to have produced much of an improvement. In fact, I think the most marked improvement has been from giving the razor more time on the strop. Unfortunately, though, I am still unable to pass the HHT... I'm beginning to think the HHT is more of a myth like unicorns and butterflies. :w

I've only been using str8's for the past month and have always anticipated a bit of a learning curve, so - needless to say - I am very pleased with my progress so far. I'll definitely be sticking with str8's.

- Ken -

I have no hair, so have never used the HHT. I move the razor through the hairs on my arms, and if they pop off nice and neat without catching, then its sharp enough to shave. Probably. But then a sharp enough edge for a truly perfect shave is a bit of a unicorn.

Si

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Originally Posted by GoTeeGuy

FWIW, I did give the razor a few more laps on the 8k, but have not found this to have produced much of an improvement. In fact, I think the most marked improvement has been from giving the razor more time on the strop. Unfortunately, though, I am still unable to pass the HHT... I'm beginning to think the HHT is more of a myth like unicorns and butterflies. :w

- Ken -

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The HHT is definately not a myth, it is one of my two most reliable tests (along with the TPT). If I don't get a solid, quick, and decisive cut all the way up the blade the razor is not ready for a shave test because it would be a waste of time (probably needs more time on the 8K as long as there is a proper bevel). The tests only start to become useful when you can correlate the test results with the quality of the shave; this is a skill that takes a lot of experience and testing to develop.

HHT: Definitely not a myth!

Yes, there are variations in hair and all, but still... I have found out that Badger hair is very good for HHT. Boar hair, on the other hand is not as good - a razor may pass HHT on boar but be uncomfortable.

Well, to be honest a razor may pass HHT on badger (I use silvertip from old brushes) and still be uncomfortable - but this happens much less often than with
boar HHT.

I also usually want nice HHT results on my razors before test-shaving. However, I have received razors from others, which didn't pass HHT too well but then shaved better than I expected.

Cheers
Ivo

When I started out I never could get the HHT to work for me either. I also tried badger hair and found it too difficult trying to hold on to the badger and keep from getting bit and trying to do the test. Once that badger got riled up he'd chase me all over the house!

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I also tried badger hair and found it too difficult trying to hold on to the badger and keep from getting bit and trying to do the test. Once that badger got riled up he'd chase me all over the house!

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:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao

OK... so my last statement was a bit facetious. I know the HHT is indeed not a myth -- it's more like a stereogram. There are those who can easily see the hidden 3-D images embedded in these pictures; however, others struggle with little success.

- Ken -

I have found that I get my blades pretty close with the Norton 4K/8k. I then give it 5 passes on the 12k Shapton. I have yet to pass the HHT after honing. However, I always manage to 'pop' hairs after stropping. Recently I've been experimenting with my stropping. I have a hanging strop with one side linen and the other leather. Here is my technique...

15 to 20 passes on the linen(no paste...that might be my next experiment)

25 to 30 passes on the leather

15 to 20 linen

25 to 30 leather

15 to 20 linen

Final 25 to 30 leather

All of my blades will pass the HHT, however I have really improved my honing.

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Originally Posted by Masher

I have found that I get my blades pretty close with the Norton 4K/8k. I then give it 5 passes on the 12k Shapton. I have yet to pass the HHT after honing. However, I always manage to 'pop' hairs after stropping. Recently I've been experimenting with my stropping. I have a hanging strop with one side linen and the other leather. Here is my technique...

15 to 20 passes on the linen(no paste...that might be my next experiment)

25 to 30 passes on the leather

15 to 20 linen

25 to 30 leather

15 to 20 linen

Final 25 to 30 leather

All of my blades will pass the HHT, however I have really improved my honing.

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How did you come up with this progression? You should not need to do so many passes on either side, and you should not need to go back and forth so many times. If it works for you then that is great; however, you are likely spending too much time.

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Originally Posted by Masher

I have found that I get my blades pretty close with the Norton 4K/8k. I then give it 5 passes on the 12k Shapton. I have yet to pass the HHT after honing.

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HHT is obviously dependent on the hair you use, but I can pass it with various types (human, silvertip, boar) coming off: 1K, 1200, 1500, 4K, 8K, Belgian Blue, Coticule, various Eschers, etc. I won't go as far as to say if I got it I can pass HHT off it only because I haven't really tried the 600 diamond and some other mysterious rocks yet...

I am not saying I like to shave off 1200, but I can certainly pass HHT right after the hone without stropping.

Just another data point (stolen from Ed :) )

Cheers
Ivo

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Originally Posted by GoTeeGuy

I'm beginning to think the HHT is more of a myth like unicorns and butterflies.

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Yesterday, I decided to try honing up my 2nd Wapienica str8. I started with some circular laps on the 4k to help reset the bevel and then proceeded to complete two full pyramids. I started each pyramid while applying slight pressure to the blade and reduced the pressure as the pyramids progressed. Once completed, I tried the HHT and failed. :gth

Feeling somewhat frustrated, I asked my wife to give me a strand of her hair to try -- SUCCESS!!!! :y I've just seen my first unicorn!!!! This led me to try using my wife's hair on my first Wapi -- SUCCESS!!!! :y That's two unicorns in one day!!!! :y I'm not sure why I cannot pass the HHT with my own hair... :shrug:

So, now that I've confirmed that both razors pass the HHT along the full length of the blade, is there anything else I should be doing to ensure the edge is shaving sharp? Or is passing the HHT the ultimate goal?

- Ken -

PS I must add that my 2nd Wapi has a slight warp to the blade, so I really needed to use the rolling X stroke while honing. This worked like a charm. Prior to honing this blade, I had a difficult time understanding the rolling x stroke and how it could possibly be performed. Funny how honing a warped blade brings everything into focus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoTeeGuy

So, now that I've confirmed that both razors pass the HHT along the full length of the blade, is there anything else I should be doing to ensure the edge is shaving sharp? Or is passing the HHT the ultimate goal?

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First off, I have to give you the obligitory "it is the shave that matters, not the tests" comment. With that said the HHT is not a pass fail thing, it is more like a scale. It is not whether or not an edge cuts the hair, it is how well it cuts the hair. When an edge is close to or shave ready you should be able to lightly touch the hair to the edge (not swing the razor into the hair) and the hair will immediately be cut cleanly and completely. The HHT is a powerful tool only when you have the experience to correlate how well an edge cuts the hair in the HHT to how well the razor shaves. If you are passing the HHT at all then you are at least in the ballpark of a very sharp razor.

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Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

When an edge is close to or shave ready you should be able to lightly touch the hair to the edge (not swing the razor into the hair) and the hair will immediately be cut cleanly and completely.

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Great... that's what I wanted to know. I certainly did not need to do any swinging to pass the test, but I think I can still do better... I'll do a few laps on the 8k tonight and see if that improves things.

As for the shave test, it was the best I've had so far. There was some slight tugging in spots, but I found this was eliminated with better stretching and blade angle.

BTW... stropping on my TM #4 Starter Strop is wicked fun. Much better than using my old belt!!!! :D :D :D I think my technique is passable at present! I've got the wrist movement down, so I never need to lift the razor from the strop. I just need to remain mindful of what I'm doing...

I think the greatest room for improvement is in my shaving technique.

- Ken -

It really sounds like you are on the right track Ken. Have fun and keep reporting on your progress.