I have a new Dovo Bismarck and a Unity Sheffield (100 years old ) straight razors. They have been honed on the same stones and the same way.
Yet the Sheffield shaves much better and more smother than the Dovo !
WHY ?:dropjaw:
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I have a new Dovo Bismarck and a Unity Sheffield (100 years old ) straight razors. They have been honed on the same stones and the same way.
Yet the Sheffield shaves much better and more smother than the Dovo !
WHY ?:dropjaw:
The Sheffield is likely made of softer steel, which will result in a smoother edge.
Because not all steel is made the same way. Badgister has a point about soft and hard steel. There's just something about how old steel was made that makes it superior to today's alloys. But, that's just my opinion!
Just adding to the discussion,
Sheffield steel - soft vs Swedish steel - hard
Both shave like a dream
Having seen videos from the Dovo factory, I'm not impressed by their manufacturing processes
My first choice is Sheffield. Not taking anything away from German razors, I have some mighty fine shaving German razors but Sheffield razors seem to give a smoother more comfortable shave.
I think that different steels like different honing methods to get that last few percentages.
That covers many things in life.
To get to the 90% level is generally easy for anyone that tries.
Each percent above that gets harder and harder. More time, effort, and money.
You found what the one blade likes now if you want to get the other to that level it begins.
Which means the Unity will be done quicker than the Dovo at all stages of the honing. So if you've honed them "the same way" the bevel may not even be set on the Dovo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgister
Soft steel doesn't necessarily mean a smooth edge. Fine grained steel with good heat treat does, eg. Puma.
I like the old stuff from the late 1700s, thru the 1800s, best. But I have others from early 1900s to present time, that shaves equally, as well.
If your honing is consistent, your shaves should be as well.
Question... Do either razors have a smile.?
Maybe I am at fault here . The Dovo has spent a lot more time on the hone than the Unity .
The Dovo is as efficient as the Unity and just as keen but the shave is not as smooth .
If your Dovo has a straight spine, and the other has a smiling spine, then there's your answer.
There's not as much of the edge, making contact with your face. And a smiling blade has more of a scything action, where a straight edge is more of a scraper.
If this makes sense, for you.
.
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I have never had what I call a smooth feeling shave from a Dovo. After watching the video's of their heat treating process I feel they probably have a large grain size.
To me it is like comparing a 600 grit sandpaper with a 2000 grit sandpaper.
I agree, and ended up selling all my Dovos when I discovered the joys of vintage razors. The older Dovo Fritz Bracht razors however are as good as any vintage Solingen razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
You can also find the best of both worlds, Solingen ground and made of Sheffield steel.
Is old better than new production, yes. As said if you compare old early 1900’s Dovo production to current Dovo. Older is better. Labor and materials were cheaper, so quality was better.
The beauty of a straight razor is it can be tailored to your face, beard, and shaving abilities. You can also tailor honing to a particular steel quality or razor. Even with production razors, some are harder than others.
Also as said, how were the razors honed, and by whom, which finish stone and the level of expertise of the honer, also play a big part.
Both are straight ........ Well they seem to be to the naked eyeQuote:
Originally Posted by outback
Here is a photo of the two razors side by side ......... There might be a "smile " on the Unity
Why can I not upload a picture !!!!!!!!!!!
Am I doing something wrong ? The picture will not upload!!!!
There's an additional step now. You go upload them and then cock the -"photo icon" at the top of the window and get a dropdown menu of your uploaded photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smell
Here they are ;
Attachment 330322Attachment 330323
I don't see a obvious smile on the Unity, but it's been honed with a smile.
With that, and that its vintage, lie's your answer.
Vintage....trump's modern.!
I personally like the old vintage, cast steel from late 1700 & early 1800s.
Attachment 330330
I don't know enough to be able to say with certainty that old or new is better. The honing may be more fitted for the Sheffield razor - either by technique or stone hardness. Your shaving technique may be more fitting to one razor over the other. I have a small mix - but only one of my razors was brand new. And I've never had a Dovo. My new razor is a Boker King Cutter. It shaves well but earns its name. Some of my older razors do shave better for me, especially the wider ones. I think you may try some testing / comparison and let us know your conclusion. Sorry I'm no help but there are so many variables, including the user...
There is IMHO no such thing as old being better than new.
There are, on the other hand a lot of different types of skin, and a lot of different type of hairs.
And also, there are a lot of different levels of manufacture quality.
What is good for you might be bad for another, and the opposite can also be true.
I never ever use a Thiers Issard razor, the feeling of shaving with ones feels like "cardboard", I just hate it.
At the same time, I've prepared TI razors that have become immediately loved by their new owners.
While I am an oldies lover myself, I have a good friend who is a remarkable specialist on steels and love hard steels for his razors, with, if possible a paper thin edge. While both think that the other has remarkable razors, we have a few times traded blades and stuck to our initial preferences.
And as I was saying, quality matters. A bottom shelf razor compared to a top shelf, whatever the epoch, can't be compared.
To take an extreme example, compare a circa 1820 butterfly razor to a circa 1820 Pradier, both from French makers, and you have compared apples and oranges.
Most of the time though, it's not that extreme lol.
What can play in favor of the oldies, is that the very nice ones were kept safe while the shittier ones ended as tools (one I was given was used to castrate pigs), and nice models can be obtained for a bargain
I have only 2 razors that are less than 15 years old: a Thiers-Issard le Dandy 6/8 and a Boker King Cutter. My other 30+ razors range in age from 30 to 100+ years of age. My experience is that my vintage razors shave as well or better than my newer razors.
The big thing is that they cost a lot less than new razors and seem to be of much more consistent quality.
If you are willing to learn how to restore a rusty, highly patinated blade and repair or replace and repeen scales, you can get yourself several mighty fine razors for the price of a single new blade.
You have to be willing to settle for a blade might have a few blemishes and scales that have a nick or a bug bite, but shaves as well or better than a new one.
I’m not a collector, but I do enjoy the restorations I am able to do and I really enjoy shaving with the razors I am able to bring into my rotation. I don’t buy it if I don’t intend to use it.
You have two very different razors; The Sheffield razor has been honed on the stabilizer with pressure. the cause of the wonky edge that appears to have a frown and the ground spine & smiling toe. A 5-minute heel and edge correction will fix that and allow the full edge to be easily honed.
If you hone the shoulder less Bismarck with the same pressure that the Sheffield was, (“They have been honed on the same stones and the same way.Yet the Sheffield shaves much better and more smother than the Dovo !”), you will flex the blade and lift the edge off the hone. It does not take much to flex a hollow ground, shoulder less blade edge off the hone.
It may be why the Sheffield shaves better, at least the toe was fully on the hone. I suspect the toe shave better than the heel.
Look at the bevels and edges with magnification, ink both the razors to see where they are making contact on the hone. Correct the heel and the edge to remove the frown and fully hone the edge.
There are many posts on heel correction. It is not the razors, old vs new, it is how they were honed. As you gain more experience, they should shave the same, you just must learn how to hone each individually.
I have photoshopped the heel and the toe . Is this the correct way to fix the problem with the smile
Attachment 330336
No, more like the photo, in a graceful radius. This will move the corner of the edge about a ¼ inch from the stabilizer and make honing much easier.
Ink on the bevel will quickly tell you if you are making full contact on the edge.
Use a large coin or washer to draw the radius with a sharpie, blacken the part to be removed then you can preview what it will look like and find a pleasing profile. WD 40 will remove the ink if you want to start over.
Attachment 330341
Attachment 330342
Also, put an extra layer of tape on the Bismarck, ink the bevel and do 4- 6 light laps on your finish stone. No more than that and look at the edge with magnification. Use Light laps.
You are probably very close having a good edge, a micro bevel will probably finish it nicely.
For your benefit you can also ink the bevel and use a bit of pressure and do one lap. This will show you, how little pressure it takes to lift the edge off the stone, you will be honing on the back of the bevel, not the edge.
Ink is your friend, you can learn a lot from an inked bevel and some magnification.
What you have shown is my preferred method of removing a stabilizer. I've done several that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smell
I do like this idea too. But I think if I was going to go at it like this I'd round off that heal just a touch to keep from drawing blood! Plus the fact that the edge is not a smooth sweeping curve. A little work on that edge could make a smoother curve.
Wild thinking, but there's probably more than one of us shaving with a razor that castrated something!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelos
Looks like the way Thiers Issard make some of their razors. Works for them should work for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smell
https://www.thiers-issard.fr/en/stra...taillelame-5_8
Bob
Does that Dovo have a frown or is it the photo?
Don't think soQuote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
If you aren't sure do this test. It could explain a lot.
So many times when we did the intro to honing sessions they would bring a Dovo with a frown and we had to fix it before we could show them anything. I don't trust them after seeing so many like that
Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
Probably from a rotary disc hone, too much pressure and a “convex” stone. It is a common problem with new Dovo’s. A motorized rotary hone can put on the equivalent of hundreds of laps in a few seconds. And if the razor is convexed on one side, the middle may be all that is making contact. It does not take much to make a frown.
It is an easy fix though. The above test will quickly tell you the condition of the edge and can save a new honer a lot of headache.
Both of those razors appear to have a frown.
