preferred blades for shaving.

It seams hard to believe that it was only April when I had my first shave.
It was on a Modern steel Dovo Bismark Honed by Outback. (Thanks again Mike.)
since then I have collected 14 razors that I consider shave ready. and have another 25 or so at different stages of the resto process. I know compared to most of you that is a drop in the bucket.

But on to something I have learned and the reason for this post.

With different blade types and grinds at my disposal I have found that I really enjoy Sheffield razors with a heavy grind over the full hollows. I find the full hollows to be a very uncomfortable shave. and the Dovo Bismark the worst by far But I have a vintage Hollow that was also honed by Outback and it is miles better than the Dovo

If I could offer any advice to Beginning wet shavers it would be don't give up if you don't like you're first shaver Try something different you just may find the one that does it for you. And absolutely start with a vintage blade.

Like most when new, it’s preference only on grinds, if your not getting a good shave with full hollows it’s you, or your edge, which can be you also. The tool is only as good as the hand holding it

To this day i enjoy a hollow grind. Very hollow to half. I dont like the cleavers that some others enjoy for shaving. As TC said, its all choice as long as the edge is right.

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Like most when new, it’s preference only on grinds, if your not getting a good shave with full hollows it’s you, or your edge, which can be you also. The tool is only as good as the hand holding it

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Exactly to the point!

I was not trying to say that heavy grinds are better than full hollows just that so far Sheffield's with a heaver grind are becoming my preference and that someone just starting that is really not liking the shave might want to try something different to what thy are already using before giving up.

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Originally Posted by Audels1

I was not trying to say that heavy grinds are better than full hollows just that so far Sheffield's with a heaver grind are becoming my preference and that someone just starting that is really not liking the shave might want to try something different to what thy are already using before giving up.

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I started with a 5/8 Dovo Best Quality full hollow, I didn't know anything about the different grinds back then. I have a mix of grinds now, I like the silence of the wedges and have a fondness for those small, American wedges like the Spike, usually fairly narrow and very nimble but I still shave most of the time with my Dovo out of familiarity. I don't think grind really makes too much of a difference to the shave unless you have something really thin and flexy razor where technique needs to be solid, just pick something that feels right at the time.

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Originally Posted by thp001

I don't think grind really makes too much of a difference to the shave unless you have something really thin and flexy razor where technique needs to be solid, just pick something that feels right at the time.

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I think this is why beginners sometimes find full hollow blades give them poor shaves, their technique is not refined enough. Again as TC said, that is assuming all blades are shave ready.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

I think this is why beginners sometimes find full hollow blades give them poor shaves, their technique is not refined enough. Again as TC said, that is assuming all blades are shave ready.

Bob

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Yeah I remember my first shave with the Dovo and it was horrendous, lots of nicks, major irritation. The thing is I knew it was going to be like that and I wanted to learn the skills enough that I persisted. I think many people today expect these instant results, they hear about how close and comfortable a shave with a straight can be but don't realize just how much technique is needed. The first shave goes poorly and they need an explanation, blame the tools, razor isn't "shave ready", not the right grind, soap wasn't slick enough, etc. Not that those things can't be an issue but I've shaved off edges way worse than any factory razor, used common bar soap to lather with and it's amazing what you can do once you have technique. I'm still learning even now every single day. Had a bad shave today in fact, lather was way too foamy and was dissipating rapidly, couldn't be bothered to go and do it again so I shaved, got some nicks around my mouth and chin, home alone moment when the Old Spice hit, all part of the fun.

Yes, for a beginner to straight razor shaving technique is king always assuming a shave ready razor is used. Good technique comes with time and 3 months of shaving every day being considered to be normal to achieve that. During that time the cause of any trouble with getting a good shave result is likely staring back at you from the mirror. You literally can't buy a better shave by spending on more gear as you don't have a good enough technique yet.

Bob

I also prefer half hollow razors, but I shave perfectly with full hollows as well.

When you start honing your razors by yourself, you will appreciate full hollows better.

I dig the sound of a hollow or semi mowing the whiskers. In the beginning, the auditory feedback of hollow blades told me if my angle was too high.

It don't matter anymore, I use and like them all.

This little phrase from Conan the barbarian comes to mind

What is steel, compared to the hand that wields it.

The tip is the business end. The business end is what makes the darn thing work well or not. Focus on that and you will see that there isn't much difference between a hollow or a wedge. And if they are the same cutting angle I will even say no difference to the end result. Making noise or silent is irrelevant to a good shave. A deaf man could shave with a noisy extra hollow. And it doesn't matter. Lol.

Personal preference plays a part in what tool we use for almost anything we do. So why would it not be the same in shaving?

These were honed by the same Person so the edge is shave ready. Both are Hollow grinds and To date I have never enjoyed the shave from the Dovo but the Special is a pleasure to shave with.
Attachment 335229



and so far my favorite shaver is heavy grind. Maybe for the same reason I prefer to flip a jig into heavy cover over a dropshotting a fineness worm (fisherman will get it)

All things being equal in terms of edge keenness I find the grind affects how you feel about the shave but not really the quality of the cutting. What makes the most difference in my experience is the shape of the point. For beginners a round point is useful for preventing nicks and cuts. Even after all the years I still gig myself once in awhile with a Spanish or spike point.
What I enjoy most these days is the big FBUs but I'll admit most of that is perception. However, the steel is very good which plays a big part and the notched point with the edge that makes it around the curve at the end certainly helps with tight spots. Still, after the face is dried and the razor hits the stand my dad's little 4/8 square point J.A. Henckels 401 does the same job.

In my early stages in this hobby I did go though a short phase of preferring heavy grinds. They are worth trying and some people will continue to prefer them over full hollows.

Judging based on my collection, my preference lies with vintage extra hollow grinds in 7/8. The larger size gives the heft I enjoy while still having the flex of a full hollow for a closer shave. I personally believe that a finely ground razor attests to the degree of craftsmanship involved in making a razor.

A full hollow is also easier to sharpen and maintain, not requiring tape or other hacks. Something for a beginner to consider. There is a reason why most barbers preferred full hollows as the tool of their trade.

I would also add that not all razor brands are created equally. I am not a fan of modern production dovo razors.

I do find it interesting that all three of the big makers: Germany, Great Britain and the US made their best razors prewar. One could argue (and it would be interesting to see if there is actual data on that) that all three used up much of their really good steel making armaments. I suppose It's also possible that many of the master grinders were either displaced or killed in the war which could have affected the quality also. Either way it is an interesting phenomenon.

I too do have a fondness for the big wide extra hollow ground razors. One of my very best shavers is a Henry Sears and Son Queen 7/8. As Wayne said I too like the ring of that great big hollow ground blade as it sings through the whiskers. I'll agree with Slur too that it makes a lot of difference honing your own razors because then you can fine tune it to your specific likes. I personally prefer the really hard natural stones like Arks, nephrite and other granite hard stones but I can see why someone would really like coticules. I like them too I just prefer a more crisp edge and less butteriness. Plus honing your own gives you the freedom to go back to it immediately if it doesn't perform the way you want. In addition I just like autonomy. There's no substitute for being self-sufficient.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I do find it interesting that all three of the big makers: Germany, Great Britain and the US made their best razors prewar. One could argue (and it would be interesting to see if there is actual data on that) that all three used up much of their really good steel making armaments. I suppose It's also possible that many of the master grinders were either displaced or killed in the war which could have affected the quality also. Either way it is an interesting phenomenon.

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I think people underestimate or just don't know about the fairly immediate impact the Gillette safety razor had on the straight razor. I think from reading it was something like by 1920 around 80% of men had switched over, pretty high conversion rate in the 15 years from its introduction.

The straight is razor more a tool for shaving another person than oneself in terms of it's ergonomics, to this day I absolutely cringe when I see someone shaving across the face with the blade held in a position perpendicular to the ground, just asking to get a cut imo. Every now and again when I shave with a DE (old Gillette New from the 20's/30's) I totally 'get it' and why men would make the shift.

Anyway once you combine that precipitous drop in users with the tragic events of the early 20th century, the deaths of many skilled men along with the rise of the USA as the worlds premier industrial and cultural force it spelled the end of the straight for all intents.

I always get a chuckle from some of the occasional internet bickering (and calls I've had with people who will go hitherto unnamed) about so and so is hurting/killing the straight razor industry. King C Gillette I'm sure is chuckling along too.

The straight razor is dead, long live the straight razor.

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Originally Posted by Audels1

Personal preference plays a part in what tool we use for almost anything we do. So why would it not be the same in shaving?

These were honed by the same Person so the edge is shave ready. Both are Hollow grinds and To date I have never enjoyed the shave from the Dovo but the Special is a pleasure to shave with.
Attachment 335229



and so far my favorite shaver is heavy grind. Maybe for the same reason I prefer to flip a jig into heavy cover over a dropshotting a fineness worm (fisherman will get it)

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I get it. :nj

Attachment 335240

Like DE razors and blades, there are a lot of different preferences in straight razors. With my coarse beard and sensitive skin, I tend to prefer full hollow, extra full hollow and belled hollow razors. I do have a couple of 1/2 hollow and 1/4 hollow razors, but I much prefer the thinner grinds for my beard and face. The problem with a thin edge is that my coarse beard dulls the edge quickly. Thus, I have to touch up the edge frequently. I can shave with a 1/4 hollow razor, but I do not enjoy the experience.

Also, I prefer 6/8 th and 7/8 th width blades. I have difficulty maintaining the proper blade angle with 5/8 th razors. I do not have any 8/8 th or larger blades.

I had a frame back Wosty that used to cut me all the time. I came close to putting it aside in the rotation, but I kept using it and now have found that it is one of the nicer shaves that I have. The giant George Savage hollow is still a fabulous shave though.

Attachment 336214 1234567890

Whenever I manage to put a nice edge on a razor, it becomes my favourite until I move on to another.

It doesn’t seem to matter if it’s full, half or quarter hollow or a wedge. My blades range from 5/8 to 9/8 and they all seem to work for me. I do have a beard so I only shave my neck and cheeks and don’t have to worry about the troublesome spot above my upper lip.

The only thing that seems to put me off sf a sharp point on the toe. I find I prefer French or round points and barber notches.

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Originally Posted by RayClem

Like DE razors and blades, there are a lot of different preferences in straight razors. With my coarse beard and sensitive skin, I tend to prefer full hollow, extra full hollow and belled hollow razors. I do have a couple of 1/2 hollow and 1/4 hollow razors, but I much prefer the thinner grinds for my beard and face. The problem with a thin edge is that my coarse beard dulls the edge quickly. Thus, I have to touch up the edge frequently. I can shave with a 1/4 hollow razor, but I do not enjoy the experience.

Also, I prefer 6/8 th and 7/8 th width blades. I have difficulty maintaining the proper blade angle with 5/8 th razors. I do not have any 8/8 th or larger blades.

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I have the same coarse beard type and sensitive skin. What's your preferred approach for touchups? Do you a stone you treat like a "barbers hone" with a few swipes between shaves, or some other way? I too dull blades pretty quickly with my barbed wire stubble. . .

A micro bevel helps with that. I find the edge lasts a lot better with one.

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Originally Posted by octoserge

I have the same coarse beard type and sensitive skin. What's your preferred approach for touchups? Do you a stone you treat like a "barbers hone" with a few swipes between shaves, or some other way? I too dull blades pretty quickly with my barbed wire stubble. . .

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I am sorry, but whenever someone talks about his ‘sensitive skin’ combined with ‘copper wire’ beard, ‘barbed wire stubble’ that dulls every razor after a few shaves all my warning lights come on.
That someone needs to use a (barber’s) hone between shaves sounds almost inconceivable to me.

I am sure some members may want to jump in head first and offer advice, but to really understand what is going on - and be able to offer some truly useful advice - we would need to know more about your shaving, honing (incl. progression) and stropping experience, and most of all about your pre-shave prep.

Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of comments about dull razors are merely the result or poor technique in honing, shaving and/or stropping and - most of all - pre-shave prep.
Going back to my ‘formative years’, I remember only too well that I only needed to get one of the above wrong to turn an otherwise perfect shave into an uncomfortable and ineffective mess.

To start with, why don’t you describe your pre-shave routine?
For this routine to work well, it doesn’t have to be very elaborate and no pre-shave cream/balm is needed, but you nevertheless should tell us what you do to prep for your shave.


B.

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Originally Posted by beluga

I am sorry, but whenever someone talks about his ‘sensitive skin’ combined with ‘copper wire’ beard, ‘barbed wire stubble’ that dulls every razor after a few shaves all my warning lights come on.
That someone needs to use a (barber’s) hone between shaves sounds almost inconceivable to me.

I am sure some members may want to jump in head first and offer advice, but to really understand what is going on - and be able to offer some truly useful advice - we would need to know more about your shaving, honing (incl. progression) and stropping experience, and most of all about your pre-shave prep.

Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of comments about dull razors are merely the result or poor technique in honing, shaving and/or stropping and - most of all - pre-shave prep.
Going back to my ‘formative years’, I remember only too well that I only needed to get one of the above wrong to turn an otherwise perfect shave into an uncomfortable and ineffective mess.

To start with, why don’t you describe your pre-shave routine?
For this routine to work well, it doesn’t have to be very elaborate and no pre-shave cream/balm is needed, but you nevertheless should tell us what you do to prep for your shave.


B.

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Thank you B for your post. I didn't mean to trigger all of your warning lights. I was simply asking ReyClem how he refreshes his edge. I didn't mean to cause a derailment of the post, so hopefully this gets back on target. Been wetshaving for 12 years and I'd say my prep is effective for me. I just sometimes get tuggy blades earlier than some other guys. Nothing systemic. By the way, Coimbra is a beautiful city, and I would love to visit Vancouver one day as well! Best to you.

It is interesting to read how some of you don't get many shaves before refreshing your razors.

I don't have one of those tough copperwire beards and because I have 16 razors in my rotation and shave every other day I use each razor once a month. That means about 12 shaves a year for each razor, I hone/refresh at about 2 years (24 shaves) unless I want to bevel set and hone something just for the practice or for fun, which I tend to do quite a lot.

If I waited until my razors actully needed some love once every two years, I would never have learned to hone much less set a bevel.

Pre-shave, shme-shave. Snake oil is what it is. I tried to implememt pre-shave and found it to make no noticable difference. The only pre-shave you need is shaving soap. My son has a beard like pig bristle and he shaves with cold water and doesn't even shower first.
Edge retention is the sum of a durable edge, proper technique (stropping and shaving) and post shave blade treatment (i.e. getting the blade completely dry and clean). All the rest is pampering.

I am new to straight razors but not new to wet shaving. So I tend to blame my technique with a straight. but I have never did anything other than a hot shower and sometimes shave soap under a hot towel before a shave.

There is nothing "wrong" with pre-shave treatments but let's not make unrealistic claims. If it makes you feel better about your shave then great. If you just enjoy it, even better. Hell, it may make your skin react to the shave differently... maybe. But to claim that it effects edge retention? I don't think so. Probably the single biggest thing that affects edge retention is proper stropping, both before and after the shave. I can make an edge last for literally years by simply getting the proper edge on the blade in the first place and stropping correctly before and after the shave to dry and clean the blade.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

There is nothing "wrong" with pre-shave treatments but let's not make unrealistic claims. If it makes you feel better about your shave then great. If you just enjoy it, even better. Hell, it may make your skin react to the shave differentlyBut to claim that it effects edge retention? I don't think so. Probably the single biggest thing that affects edge retention is proper stropping, both before and after the shave. I can make an edge last for literally years by simply getting the proper edge on the blade in the first place and stropping correctly before and after the shave to dry and clean the blade.

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In that case, let’s just agree to disagree :beer1: on the importance of a pre-shave routine, because I stand by my point that some beard prep to soften the whiskers is highly beneficial.

In fact, I even believe that if shavers using cartridge razors would employ the kind of pre-shave routine that straight shavers are used to they could get much improved results from their cartridge razors.

As I mentioned, it does not have to be a highly evolved ritual with pre-shave creams (which I do not use), but water and preferably some (e.g. glycine) soap (that I do use) before the shave will soften facial hair and possibly remove oils thereby making it easier for the lather to soften the beard in preparation for the shave.
Of course, the same result can be had if you shave after a shower.

If you should not believe that properly softened facial hair is easier to cut, that’s absolutely fine by me.
After years of daily (mostly straight) shaving I have found what makes a difference for me and what doesn’t.

Besides, my idea of a forum is to have a place where members can find (sometimes opposing) different ideas and then chose for themselves what makes sense to them and what doesn’t.



B.

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Originally Posted by beluga

In that case, let’s just agree to disagree :beer1: on the importance of a pre-shave routine, because I stand by my point that some beard prep to soften the whiskers is highly beneficial.

In fact, I even believe that if shavers using cartridge razors would employ the kind of pre-shave routine that straight shavers are used to they could get much improved results from their cartridge razors.

As I mentioned, it does not have to be a highly evolved ritual with pre-shave creams (which I do not use), but water and preferably some (e.g. glycine) soap (that I do use) before the shave will soften facial hair and possibly remove oils thereby making it easier for the lather to soften the beard in preparation for the shave.
Of course, the same result can be had if you shave after a shower.

If you should not believe that properly softened facial hair is easier to cut, that’s absolutely fine by me.
After years of daily (mostly straight) shaving I have found what makes a difference for me and what doesn’t.

Besides, my idea of a forum is to have a place where members can find (sometimes opposing) different ideas and then chose for themselves what makes sense to them and what doesn’t.



B.

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I always try to shower right before I shave. I can't recall a time where I've ever had a comfortable shave without doing so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beluga

In that case, let’s just agree to disagree :beer1: on the importance of a pre-shave routine, because I stand by my point that some beard prep to soften the whiskers is highly beneficial.

In fact, I even believe that if shavers using cartridge razors would employ the kind of pre-shave routine that straight shavers are used to they could get much improved results from their cartridge razors.

As I mentioned, it does not have to be a highly evolved ritual with pre-shave creams (which I do not use), but water and preferably some (e.g. glycine) soap (that I do use) before the shave will soften facial hair and possibly remove oils thereby making it easier for the lather to soften the beard in preparation for the shave.
Of course, the same result can be had if you shave after a shower.

If you should not believe that properly softened facial hair is easier to cut, that’s absolutely fine by me.
After years of daily (mostly straight) shaving I have found what makes a difference for me and what doesn’t.

Besides, my idea of a forum is to have a place where members can find (sometimes opposing) different ideas and then chose for themselves what makes sense to them and what doesn’t.



B.

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Fair enough. Perception is not 90% of reality. Perception is reality. I often think about a scene from the movie The Seventh Sign where the young Jewish boy that Demi Moore asks to help translate a scroll from Hebrew finds that it is about New Testament prophecy so he goes to a priest to ask him about it. As they are talking the boy says, "so the Jews think they're right and the Christians think they're right and the Muslims think they're right but they can't ALL be right. So...who is right?"
The true believers if each believe it enough to go to their death for it so that must be real certainty. In each case I'd say that perception has in fact become reality.

I can only speak for myself. I have tried a number of different things. The aforementioned is my reality. May everyone else prosper in their reality.:beer1:

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Fair enough. Perception is not 90% of reality. Perception is reality. I often think about a scene from the movie The Seventh Sign where the young Jewish boy that Demi Moore asks to help translate a scroll from Hebrew finds that it is about New Testament prophecy so he goes to a priest to ask him about it. As they are talking the boy says, "so the Jews think they're right and the Christians think they're right and the Muslims think they're right but they can't ALL be right. So...who is right?"
The true believers if each believe it enough to go to their death for it so that must be real certainty. In each case I'd say that perception has in fact become reality.

I can only speak for myself. I have tried a number of different things. The aforementioned is my reality. May everyone else prosper in their reality.:beer1:

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Yes, often much more is to be gained from concentrating on what we agree on than arguing over the minor points that set us apart.


B.

I have a soft beard, and can say that I have never seen any benefit from pre shave balms. I use them sometimes but really its just the same for me. I get a good edge on my razor (Thanks Outback) and am pretty good at stropping. My six razor rotation has lasted me a good long time.

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Originally Posted by beluga

Yes, often much more is to be gained from concentrating on what we agree on than arguing over the minor points that set us apart.


B.

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