Shaved with my DE this morning...

My straight was in need of a touch-up before using again, as it was pulling like a madman the last shave.

Soooo...I pulled out the trusty old Merkur Futur that had beeen gathering dust the last 3 weeks since I recieved my straight. It had a Feather blade loaded with about 3 shaves already on it, and that mutha shaved me so damn smooth I don't know what to think!?

#1- I need to work on getting my straight sharper. I have gotten very close and comfortable shaves with my straight, BBS is no problem, but the razor does seem to pull a lot more than the DE. Is that just part and parcel for straight shaving? Or if properly tuned, will I get similar gliding smoothness as I experienced with the Feather/DE combo?

#2- That Futur used to scare me. "Oh no, it's so big and heavy! Look out!". After shaving with a 7/8 Henckles for three weeks, I wipped that DE around my face like child's play.:D

#3- Shaving with the DE was completed in 1/2 the time,and the shave was nice and comfortable and close. But I must say it was lacking a certain gratification I get when using the straight. I'm not going back (but neither will I be selling off my Futur...:w )

I too come from the Futur.....and I am going straight....

What the heck am I saying?....note to self.......stop playing with words before coffee....

Nah, I have gotten to the point where I cannot understand the DE guys comments about the Futur. I can get absolutely smooth comfortable controlled shaves with it ( I use a Derby blade). I however have not reached shaving nirvana with the straight yet. In fact I was in a conversation just last night. Where I voiced my desire to have a straight as sharp as my DE. I was promptly reminded that the two blades are vastly different and that a straight as sharp as a DE would NOT make me happy. So, Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, for it is shaving time........

I think that your straight shouldn't pull that much more
than a DE. It is a little bit of a different sensation, but
for me I get a much better and more comfortable shave
with a straight.

I would advise to keep going on the straight, it may take
a while for your shaves to get there, but they will in time!

P.S. make sure that you have a sharp razor

- Scott

Sounds like a bit of a combination between your blade not being sharp enough and your technique isn't quite 100% just yet.

I absolutely love my straight, and now when I even think about switching back to a DE, the thought makes me cringe. My shaves really are that much better from a straight. But hey, if a DE works just as well for you, then all the better!

Once you've been using the straight for a while you won't be able to go back to the DE. The last time I used my DE, I was on vacation and didn't want the bother of the accessories for a straight, I got burn. Bad burn. The shave felt good, and it was close enough, but the burn damn that never used to happen when I was a DE shaver.

I order to get the same effortless shave that Merkur chunk of lead give you there are a lot more parts that have to come together in the straight shave. You have to have a well honed blade, you have to strop it well, and your shaving technique has to be spot on. It takes some skill to get there but it is worth it. You will also find that as these things come together your shave will get faster too, to the point where you wil wonder how you ever thought straight shaving was slower than using your DE.

Well, that's what I'm getting at: I am loving shaving with the str8t, and can get comfortable, close shaves with it (some days not so great...) So I'm wondering what the key is. I imagine sharpness is perhaps #1?
I need to get a new strop, as my last one beat up my blade something fierce. I've been shaving off of a 0.5um or 1.0um finish as of late (actually the 1.0um felt a bit more comfortable, but he 0.5um definitely cut the whiskers better).

I was simply blown away by how smooth and sharp the DE with Feather was. I never had a shave like that back when I was using it all the time. Using the straight has certainly honed my shaving skills. I guess I have to now work on honing my honing skills:hmmm:

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

You will also find that as these things come together your shave will get faster too, to the point where you wil wonder how you ever thought straight shaving was slower than using your DE.

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I can attest to this with a personal account just last week. I have been using my straight for wet shaving exclusively since last year. On very very rare occasion when I'm in a hurry I'll reluctantly grind down my whiskers with my crappy electric I've held on to; this is usually on a weekend when I can walk around with the crappy looking electric shadow. Anyway, I was in a hurry and needed to look more clean shaven than that electric would ever allow........I decided to pull out the vintage Gillette DE, slapped in a brand new blade and figured it would go a bit quicker than a straight shave:
1) It's hilarious, but that DE actually made me MORE nervous to start the shave with that my straights which I'm very comfortable with!:roflmao
2) I also was very very cautious since I didn't want that little DE giving me any burn or ingrowns that DE's have at times in the past and that my straights don't give.
3) After WTG and XTG passes (that's all I ever do with my straights), the shave closeness was noticeably inferior to my straights; and, in the end......it took me just as long as it does with my straights!!!!!

Jeesh........will I ever use a DE again?:shrug::thinking::shrug:

I digressed a bit there, but here's advice I'd like to offer regarding your struggle with straights vs. DE:

A DE pass across skin is typically "head on" rather than angled or skewed like a proper straight razor pass. Even with a very sharp properly tuned straight and using a proper angle, I personally can't draw the blade head on into the whiskers in most cases, there's pull. The scythe/skewed motion is therefore recommended for straights. This is a morbid analogy, but think of a guillotine blade. It's angled. I doubt, and don't want to think much more about it than that, but if a guillotine blade was straight across and came down "head on", I would assume it would not be able to accomplish its task; too much resistance and not enough slice. You need to slice your whiskers rather than chop the whiskers.

I hope this helps.

Chris L

Ah-so!

I'll try that as well. Thanks for the tip, that's what I'm looking for.

Funny you mentioned this. This morning I was in a rush and shaved with my DE, too, for the first time in more than a month. I used a new Derby in my Merkur Barber Pole. I used the same skin stretching techniques as for straight shaving on the problem areas in my neck, and whoa, I got the cleanest (perfectly BBS, actually) DE shave ever, with absolutely no burn or weeping!

I suppose straight shaving helps you learn how to shave properly, no matter what instrument you use.

As posted by me elswhere on the forum:

I found out that I was using too steep an angle on the straight relative to my face. I gave it a go using a much shallower angle, and that was a big step towards Featherish smoothness!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

A DE pass across skin is typically "head on" rather than angled or skewed like a proper straight razor pass. Even with a very sharp properly tuned straight and using a proper angle, I personally can't draw the blade head on into the whiskers in most cases, there's pull. The scythe/skewed motion is therefore recommended for straights. This is a morbid analogy, but think of a guillotine blade. It's angled. I doubt, and don't want to think much more about it than that, but if a guillotine blade was straight across and came down "head on", I would assume it would not be able to accomplish its task; too much resistance and not enough slice. You need to slice your whiskers rather than chop the whiskers.

I hope this helps.

Chris L

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This some of the best advice someone new could receive....this technique REALLY improved my shaves with straights. You need to think of using a straight blade like properly using a chef's knife to cut food, lets say a tomato. With a perfectly sharp chef's knife, you cannot just put the blade to the tomato skin and push straight down...you will squish the tomato and juice gets pushed out. Proper technique is to use the tip of the knife and slice through the tomato. Think of each little atom of the tomato as you slice and how you do not want to burst any of them, rather cleanly slice through.

If you are still following, it is the same idea with a straight and beard hairs. Rather than slicing per se, the scything idea is that you come at the hair at the angle you would be using with the knife on a tomato. On an atomic level, the as the whole blade rotates in the motion, the blade is essentially pulling though (slicing motion) the hair, cutting much more smoothly than a head on cut where you are using more downward force than a slicing motion.

My explanation may be confusing but Chris sums it up in his post.:tu

That's next on my "to do" list.

First step was correcting blade angle--big help.

Next is to add scything...

Hi i agree with you I've shaved with a merkur db and i get an exallant shave every time no irritation at all realy smooth and effort less. I like shaving with my straight razors because of the skill involved with the process and i can get a good shave but i would never say a cut throat shave is the best shave you will ever have thats my opinion. straight razors are hard work and to have all the honing stones etc it is quite an expensive hobby.

I often wonder about the definition of "pull" when we discuss the performance of our razors on this forum. If a razor shows the least sign of pulling, I decide it's time for a touch-up on the Coticule.
I do use the scything motion, but I'm not uptight about it. When going ATG, I do several strokes that don't scythe at all. It all depends on which part of the face I'm shaving, but even when moving straight forward, a shaveready razor does not pull, and I do have a coarse beard.
To define things a bit clearer: WTG, I don't feel the whskers being cut. I can hear them being cut, with some razors louder than others, but I can't feel it. ATG, I do feel how they are cut, but I would not call that "pulling". The feeling is more or less the same as gently bristling with a fingernail against the grain of my beard. When it's time to touch up the razor, it starts to "pull": a sensation that provokes me to, however slightly, increase the pressure on the blade. That's when I lay that razor aside and grab another, shaveready one. I estimate that it takes about 20 to 30 shaves for that to happen, with the razors I own and the way I hone and strop them. During the first learning stage, I did not else but shave with a razor that I would now lay aside to hone, and I would shave with it till the point it started to hang up on the whiskers, when going ATG. It was nearly impossible to shave real close with that level of sharpness, and sometimes I would have to lock my wrist to prevent the razor to change direction after hanging up at a stubborn whisker, and slice into my skin.
Then I learned how to "really" hone, thanks to David and Josh, instead of fumbling endlessly on the coticule and a pasted strop till it shaved a bit better again for one or two shaves. (I admit, I am one of those sulking bastards that obstinately refused to send my razor to a honemeister :shrug:). I don't mean to imply that anyone who experiences "pullling" does not know how to hone, but I do think sharpness is the answer. I don't think a razor can be too sharp. It can be too harsh, when really sharp, but nothing that a bit of Chromium oxide can't resolve.
"Pulling" was my major concern, before I figured out how to get my razors as sharp as they are nowadays.

I hope this does not sound to condescending. I know my straight razor shaves excel the DE shaves from the previous 20 years in every possible way, except that they take a bit more time, but the result lasts longer too.

Of course there's nothing wrong with being a DE-guy... That's sounds a bit like how they said to me "Participation is more important than winning" when I arrived last again at the annual school run...:roflmao:roflmao

:D


Bart.

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Originally Posted by RayG

I suppose straight shaving helps you learn how to shave properly, no matter what instrument you use.

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I had similar results when I had to send the straight out for honing and was forced to knock the dust off the old fatboy. I got a fantastic shave and I think it because after you hold that straight up to your face the first time a DE is childs play. But don't worry, the dovo is back and the fatty is again a sharp paperweight.

I couldn't resist the hardware and recently bought a fatboy.

No comparison to the shave I get from a straight. Maybe in a pinch I will use it; but only when in so big a hurry I cannot shave with a straight.

I use a Merkur too, but its not nearly as kind to my face as my straight razor. Its fast, but no cigar!

I had to switch back to the old Mach 3 this morning, as I am fresh out of shave ready razors, and I definitely think using a straight teaches you to shave better, even with training wheel razors. Though I did feel like I was driving a minivan with an automatic transmission. I've been thinking about grabbing a DE for running late days....should I just look for a Merkur Futur somewhere?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phillyclaude

I've been thinking about grabbing a DE for running late days....should I just look for a Merkur Futur somewhere?

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I wouldn't rule out other DEs like the older Gillette adjustables. I get a great shave from my Fatboy, every bit as good as my Merkur. You could probably pick up a decent Slim for a lot less than a Futur.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CRuzin

I wouldn't rule out other DEs like the older Gillette adjustables. I get a great shave from my Fatboy, every bit as good as my Merkur. You could probably pick up a decent Slim for a lot less than a Futur.

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Exactly

Keep your eyes open the old Gillettes show up pretty often at flea markets for cheap. I have a dozen different ones and I have never paid more than $5 buck for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyclaude http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...s/viewpost.gif
I've been thinking about grabbing a DE for running late days....should I just look for a Merkur Futur somewhere?


I got a new 38C with the thoughtr I could do the head in a hurry and after a bad Mok3 shave which I described in detail about 6 months ago. I haven't even went through one box of DE blades. I keep it in the cabinet with a blade but really have no desire to use it. I spent about 40.00+ dollars on razor and blades that I could have spent on another straight. If you think you need to try a DE get a cheep gillette at a fleamarket or antique shop. Then order a few good blades. If it works for you then upgrade. I would give you my 38C but it might be good for travel? I think I will keep it around a while.

Don

For DE's I just really dug the Futur. Its' big, hefty, adjustable. Really very, very nice.

I did a mini-review here:
http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37041

I recommend the Merkur Slant bar razor if you're going to use a DE. It's my DE razor of choice. The blade is held in the head at a bit of an angle so you get a bit of the scything action that you get with straights. . . provides for really nice shaves.

Last night I needed a shave before going to bed for the night and didn't feel like fooling with a str8, so I plopped a fresh Derby in my HD and went to town. Wadda ya know; a nice smooth face in no time at all. This morning after I showered I grabbed my str8 and gave it a few licks on the Swaty, and a few laps on the strop. I looked at the razor in my hand, shrugged, and put it away. I lathered up, picked up the HD and got a nice close shave in nearly no time, with no irritation. I can't see myself giving up on str8's, but I'm not tossing out my HD either.:tu
Ken.