Burning skin

Evening gentlemen,

Ok, I just finished my second shave with a straight. After I finished showering, I didn't dry my face, and before I lathered up, I actually re-wet my face with hot water. I lathered up real good and shaved, lathered up again and made another pass in the opposite direction. I rinsed with cold water and applied some Nivea after shave balm. I have no complaints about the shave-it's very close. But my skin feels very tight, irritated, and, according to my wife, red. Any idea what I can do to alleviate the irritation? :shrug:

In the interest of thoroughness, I used a Hoffritz 5/8 round tip, stropped before use, of course, that was purchased through this forum and came shave ready. I'm also using bay rum sweet orange shave soap from the Gentleman's Quarter, and a Tweezerman badger hair brush.

I have an alum block, Proraso shave cream with wheat germ (the red tube designed for sensitive skin), Proraso pre-shave cream, and some Clubman's original after shave from ClassicShaving.com on their way to me in the mail.

Your guidance is much appreciate.

Chad.

It could have been sensitivity to one of the products or more likely shaving technique like too much angle or too much pressure.

Does it really sting when you apply AS? If so, then you're probably using too much pressure. Other users have compared it to just "wiping the lather off w/ the razor". BTW I was super guilty of this @ first! Try w/ less pressure and see how it works for you.

TGQ is the best shaving soap I've ever used! One or two of her soaps use fragrance oils instead of essential oils (Cavendish Black is the only one I can think of) and some people get irritation from those. I think the bay rum is all EOs though, so you should be good there.

And welcome to SRP!

I know I've been using too much pressure and I have the burn as well. I guess I'm greedy to attack the hairs the way I do

Besides the pressure, which as everyone else has already stated, I am
re-reading yer post as "opposite direction" is that 'ATG' against the grain of the hair????
If so you want to lay off that for awhile,(some say forever) until you get way more proficient with the blades..
One pass 'WTG' with the grain and one pass 'XTG' across the grain is more than adequate for the time being.... In fact you might wanna go just 2 passes WTG for about the first month until you feel way more comfortable ....

Welcome to SRP also :nj

+1 What Glen said.

You are just starting so some burning will be natural. From the very closeness you get from a straight and pressure. I would say wait a day or 2 before your next shave, just to let your face heal/recover, then try again. Also perhaps just try your cheeks before attempting your entire face and also give the balm a miss, just to rule that out as a possibility.

Remember, all good things take time.

Glen,

Yes, I went against the grain. I think the fact I have sensitive skin and am not completely adapted to using the razor also has a lot to do with it.

Chad

Could you elaborate more on the proper pressure? I don't quite understand what you mean by "wiping the lather of your face with the razor."

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Originally Posted by PilotSports

Glen,

Yes, I went against the grain. I think the fact I have sensitive skin and am not completely adapted to using the razor also has a lot to do with it.

Chad

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You will find that when you are farther along you can do ATG passes. It takes really great razor control to be able to do ATG. When everything in the shave is tuned up, you should be able to shave and not have any irritation. Hang in there and take it slow. I too, tried ATG way to early. The reason some of the other guys here know so much about it is because...... they too, tried it before they were ready.

Take care,
R

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Originally Posted by PilotSports

Could you elaborate more on the proper pressure?

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Basically as little pressure on your face as possible, its not like a mock3 where you need to press real hard to get the desired shave.

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

its not like a mock3 where you need to press real hard to get the desired shave.

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:HJ It sure seems like it does to me! Each morning I ask myself, "Do I want razor burn or lots of stubble?" So far it seems like a close shave and a comfortable shave are mutually exclusive. Wiping the lather off my face doesn't get the hair off even with the grain, so trying then to even go across the grain is counterproductive. However with some pressure I can get smooth skin but then there is the burn.

Practice practice practice!

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

:HJ It sure seems like it does to me! Each morning I ask myself, "Do I want razor burn or lots of stubble?" So far it seems like a close shave and a comfortable shave are mutually exclusive. Wiping the lather off my face doesn't get the hair off even with the grain, so trying then to even go across the grain is counterproductive. However with some pressure I can get smooth skin but then there is the burn.

Practice practice practice!

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Perhaps you rolled your edge when stropping?

Its hard to say really, could be your angles, technique etc.

Oh and just in case: when you are doing your first pass, for now just try going over each patch of skin once. In that I mean whether or not all hairs have been removed with that first stroke, don't go over it again immediately. I'm not sure how long you been at it, but your face does need time to recover and adjust to this whole new method of hair removal.

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Perhaps you rolled your edge when stropping?

Its hard to say really, could be your angles, technique etc.

Oh and just in case: when you are doing your first pass, for now just try going over each patch of skin once. In that I mean whether or not all hairs have been removed with that first stroke, don't go over it again immediately. I'm not sure how long you been at it, but your face does need time to recover and adjust to this whole new method of hair removal.

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I think going over each patch of skin once on the first pass is a great idea. After the first pass, I can always lather back up and make another pass.

Last night was only my second go with the razor, so I definitely think technique and angles have a lot to do with it. But maybe I did roll the edge when stropping; what exactly does that mean and how do I keep from doing it? That's a true newbie questions if i've ever seen one! :y

Chad

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Perhaps you rolled your edge when stropping?

Its hard to say really, could be your angles, technique etc.

Oh and just in case: when you are doing your first pass, for now just try going over each patch of skin once. In that I mean whether or not all hairs have been removed with that first stroke, don't go over it again immediately. I'm not sure how long you been at it, but your face does need time to recover and adjust to this whole new method of hair removal.

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:HJ I'll find out with more practice. It could be time to examine for rolled edge too, but I have a feeling my whinings will be ironed out with more practice

From my personal experience, and also from hearsay, razor burn is pretty normal in the first shave or two. Your face needs time to adjust to the difference, considering you're now using bare steal on your face with no lubricating "safety" pad like on safety razors.

Also, my first reaction to your post was the same as Glen's. Until you've gotten a good number of shaves under the belt, it's best to stick with WTG passes. I have completely stopped going ATG...I find that 1 WTG pass and 1 scything WTG gets rid of most, if not all, of the hair.

~Chris

Here is a funny story for ya, after posting my reply, during this mornings shave, I took my own advice :D and shaved this morning with as little pressure as I could manage... Using 2 WTG passes and concentrating on getting a perfect angle I ended up with a very comfortable smooth shave...
Just goes to show sometimes as you get too comfortable with your technique, and you sometimes forget the basics you learned years ago..
I too have sensitive skin which is one of the reasons I switched back to a straight, I first started with a straight back in 1982 to get nice straight beard lines....

Thanks for the reminder :y

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here is a funny story for ya, after posting my reply, during this mornings shave, I took my own advice :D and shaved this morning with as little pressure as I could manage... Using 2 WTG passes and concentrating on getting a perfect angle I ended up with a very comfortable smooth shave...
Just goes to show sometimes as you get too comfortable with your technique, and you sometimes forget the basics you learned years ago..
I too have sensitive skin which is one of the reasons I switched back to a straight, I first started with a straight back in 1982 to get nice straight beard lines....

Thanks for the reminder :y

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You're welcome, just don't let it happen again! :nono:

I've heard a 30 degree angle is ideal. How do you ensure you are using the right angle and pressure? Are their any rules of thumb etc.?

Chad

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Originally Posted by PilotSports

You're welcome, just don't let it happen again! :nono:

I've heard a 30 degree angle is ideal. How do you ensure you are using the right angle and pressure? Are their any rules of thumb etc.?

Chad

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As already stated...Practice, Practice, Practice....

30 degrees or two spine widths away from the face are rules of thumb. You'll get a feel for the proper angle at various places on your face.

As far as pressure, I've really been noticing lately (after almost 2 years of practice) that there's this "place" where the whiskers meet the skin. You want the edge to be working right at this place. The edge can be touching the skin, but not pushing into the skin. Its kind of like finding "the sweet spot". I'm problably stating the obvious here, but what the hell. :p

Jordan

If you are sensitive to the soap - it is very likely that you'd feel some stinging as soon as you apply it or soon thereafter during the shave!

If the burn is felt only after you shave and apply the Nivea - I'd also say too much pressure.

I'd recommend to stay of ATG for a while. You should be able to get very good shaves (not BBS but still) with a couple of passes with the grain. Also, maybe just wiping with one long motion is not the optimal in your case - try short strokes, and don't repeat where there's no lather. The repeat thing requires some discipline, as many (including me) are prone to just go for it

Good luck!
Ivo

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

:HJ I'll find out with more practice. It could be time to examine for rolled edge too, but I have a feeling my whinings will be ironed out with more practice

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Sounds a lot like my case. How do you examine for rolled edges?

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Originally Posted by jnich67

As already stated...Practice, Practice, Practice....

30 degrees or two spine widths away from the face are rules of thumb. You'll get a feel for the proper angle at various places on your face.

As far as pressure, I've really been noticing lately (after almost 2 years of practice) that there's this "place" where the whiskers meet the skin. You want the edge to be working right at this place. The edge can be touching the skin, but not pushing into the skin. Its kind of like finding "the sweet spot". I'm problably stating the obvious here, but what the hell. :p

Jordan

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That's good advice; two spine lengths. I'm now convinced I am using the wrong angle, and to much pressure because the burn only sets in after the shave and intensifies after applying the after shave. Just a thought, but how useful are pre-shave treatments in your experience?

Chad

A rolled edge would probably show up under a scope. Not sure what it would look like though--I've been lucky!:D

Here's a cool trick I tried when I was starting: make your 1st WTG pass w/ a DE if you have one. This way, you're not trying to learn technique and cut hair at the same time. You can just focus on making a good stroke without worrying about closeness yet. You might still want to limit it to 1 WTG pass with the str8, though. As everyone says, give your skin time to adjust.

I'm also new and have experience the burn a few times. I've been able to almost directly correlate the burn with feeling like I have to push the blade through the stubble.

When I started I bought a brand new razor and honed it myself, so that was definitely part of the problem. My honing technique has improved to the point where I'm now quite confident that my razor is "sharp".

I've also learned that with the right angle (as previously mentioned 'where the hair meets the skin') I don't feel the need to apply pressure to the razor to get it to slice hair, and end up with a much smoother shave and no burn.

I do 1 pass WTG, and then a sort of half a pass oblique to the grain under my jawline and ATG on my chin and find that I'm very nearly BBS almost everywhere.

I'm pretty sure you'll find it's excess pressure and angle. Why you need to use such pressure and angle is usually caused by a slightly dull edge or as someone mentioned a rolled edge though I'm not convinced the latter is all that common. I would normally take a razor that is just starting to dull and give it about 50 laps on a chromium oxide pasted paddle strop, then strop normally and shave again. If you have a linen strop, you might want to up the number of laps on that before the next shave... 50 or more if the edge isn't popping hairs and meeting the other normal indicators of being completely sharp.

By the way, you have a great product to use after a rough shave in your arsenal, but it doesn't sound like you are using it that way. The Proraso Pre-Post cream is my favorite "I think this shave went badly" after shave product. After rinsing and cooling off my face with some cold water, I just use a small amount of the prepost and rub it in... too much will leave your face looking like you've used mime makeup and don't get your alum block near it... alum makes prepost curdle.

Yupp, tweak that edge, back off the pressure (should still cut nice and close if it's sharp) and a schmear of prepost diluted with the moisture on your face to finish should calm things right down.

Regards

Christian

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Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

I'm pretty sure you'll find it's excess pressure and angle. Why you need to use such pressure and angle is usually caused by a slightly dull edge or as someone mentioned a rolled edge though I'm not convinced the latter is all that common. I would normally take a razor that is just starting to dull and give it about 50 laps on a chromium oxide pasted paddle strop, then strop normally and shave again. If you have a linen strop, you might want to up the number of laps on that before the next shave... 50 or more if the edge isn't popping hairs and meeting the other normal indicators of being completely sharp.

By the way, you have a great product to use after a rough shave in your arsenal, but it doesn't sound like you are using it that way. The Proraso Pre-Post cream is my favorite "I think this shave went badly" after shave product. After rinsing and cooling off my face with some cold water, I just use a small amount of the prepost and rub it in... too much will leave your face looking like you've used mime makeup and don't get your alum block near it... alum makes prepost curdle.

Yupp, tweak that edge, back off the pressure (should still cut nice and close if it's sharp) and a schmear of prepost diluted with the moisture on your face to finish should calm things right down.

Regards

Christian

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Well, I just finished shaving and, having taken all the advice you guys gave me in this tread, the results were A LOT better. I definitely think to much pressure and poor angle were the culprit. I focused on both and had no burn after I finished and applied AS. Last time it burned like hell! The two spine lenghts is a good rule of thumb for the proper angle.

Another culprit might have been stropping technique. I upped my passes to 50 on the linen side and 50 on the leather, and by the time I finished I could really tell from the sound of the blade going across the leather that the edge was lining up nicely. The razor was practically brand new and was honed by one our honemeisters, so I knew it wasn't a rolled edge or a dull blade, at least, not after 2 shaves!

Thanks guys for the guidance!

Chad

Chad, glad to hear it! I must keep practicing - I tried again with little pressure two mornings ago, but the razor just wasn't clipping my hair away. I had no burn, but my face was quite stubbly.

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Chad, glad to hear it! I must keep practicing - I tried again with little pressure two mornings ago, but the razor just wasn't clipping my hair away. I had no burn, but my face was quite stubbly.

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I think your blade might be dull. When is the last time you honed it?

My 2 cents that I would add to the advice already given is to buy an alum block. An alum block will help heal the sensitive skin and also help close up the pores. The other thing it does and don't ask me how but it smooths and tightens the skin. I understand the tightening effect, it's alum after all but the smoothing is really interesting. It actually enhances the shave. They are only like $6.00 and they last forever. Also they are very easy to use. Rinse your face, then run the block under cool water and rub lightly on your face. Wait a few seconds and rinse again then apply your post shave treament like aftershave, or nivea whatever. It's great stuff and I highly reccomend it. Also it heals razor burn almost instantly.
Kevin