What is shave ready?

OK so you just got your nice new shiny razor and your wondering, is this thing shave ready. Much of this is subjective however is there really an objective test as to whether a straight is actually shave ready or can a razor be marginally shave ready? If you shave with it and you seem to get a good shave but maybe there's a tad of irritation or maybe a rough spot here or there.

To me a razor is shave ready when it just glides down your face without a trace of irritation and your left BBS. Of course not every razor will be that way even when honed to perfection and it also depends on your experience and technique.

So tell us what is shave ready to you.

I'm with you. The HHT is a good measurement, but a razor is only shave ready when it gives me a good, smooth, clean shave. There's no almost shave ready or nearly shave ready - only shave ready or not.

I agree with big spendur, it has to glide. I also agree with Lynn, that the only test that matters is the shave test.

I agree that a shave ready razor is one that glides smoothly WTG, XTG, ATG, with little to no irritation, no pulling and no tugging.... The definition should also contain the words
"On My Face, IF, I use it, Correctly"
Too many razors, too many faces, too many definitions.....

That's a tricky question. While I agree that shave ready should mean just that, I think there are varying levels and it's not absolute, because individuals vary.

There's definitely an absolute minimum, I think. Fall below that and no-one could shave with it. But there has to be varying degrees of shave ready after that. For example, some people shave off a coticule, some off an escher, some off barber's hones, some off 16k Shaptons, some off high grit natural Japanese, some off 0.5 micron pastes, and some off the 8k Norton. :shrug: The edges produced must be different, and if we were able to measure them consistently they'd have to show measurable differences. Yet people get good shaves off all of these.

So I think the term shave ready is rather subjective in that sense. For me it's the person-specific interaction between hone, grit, steel, grind, whisker type, skin type, lather, beard prep., and shave technique.

That's the theory, anyway. The fact that honemeisters consistently produce shave-ready edges for all types of people is evidence:

1. That they know what the minimum requirement is;
2. That they consistently achieve better-than-minimum edges;
3. The individual to individual shaver variation becomes less important the further past the minimum edge standard the razor is taken.

So, I guess I'd say that there's an absolute minimum (shave ready or not) but that above that minimum there's a limited shave-readiness continuum.

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

That's a tricky question. While I agree that shave ready should mean just that, I think there are varying levels and it's not absolute, because individuals vary.

There's definitely an absolute minimum, I think. Fall below that and no-one could shave with it. But there has to be varying degrees of shave ready after that. For example, some people shave off a coticule, some off an escher, some off barber's hones, some off 16k Shaptons, some off high grit natural Japanese, some off 0.5 micron pastes, and some off the 8k Norton. :shrug: The edges produced must be different, and if we were able to measure them consistently they'd have to show measurable differences. Yet people get good shaves off all of these.

So I think the term shave ready is rather subjective in that sense. For me it's the person-specific interaction between hone, grit, steel, grind, whisker type, skin type, lather, beard prep., and shave technique.

That's the theory, anyway. The fact that honemeisters consistently produce shave-ready edges for all types of people is evidence:

1. That they know what the minimum requirement is;
2. That they consistently achieve better-than-minimum edges;
3. The individual to individual shaver variation becomes less important the further past the minimum edge standard the razor is taken.

So, I guess I'd say that there's an absolute minimum (shave ready or not) but that above that minimum there's a limited shave-readiness continuum.

James.

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Could you give us a graph?
















;):D!!
Seriously though, I'm with Jimbo on this!

While this looks like a great thread and I agre with your ideas of shave ready I do fear this is going to lead to unhappy newbies (and honers).

Most beginners will not have a good enough technique to achieve a smooth gliding shave no matter what razor is used and will feel their shave ready razor is far from shave ready.

The warning "if I use it correctly" is a key point. With experience, "most" faces will find a shave ready razor honed by someone else will glide down the face while shaving. That said I know I have had razors honed by all the big names and almost always needed to tweak them a bit to shave the way I like.

Tony

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Originally Posted by JMS

Could you give us a graph?
...

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:D:roflmao

You've got me pegged Mark. I was seriously considering making a graph, but couldn't figure out what to put on the horizontal axis..... :roflmao

James.

As already stated, there are different levels of shave ready. What might be considered shave ready for some, could be "not-shave-ready" for others.

If I might try an analogy here - let's say all of us can write. But how many of us can write well enough to meet a publishers standard? But your writing might still be pretty good.....to you.

Well, maybe that's a crappy analogy. But if you're happy with your razor, and it's ability to shave you, then it's shave ready.

I've found through experience that there actually are subjective, non-shave, tests that one can use to tell if a razor is keen enough to shave. But if some prefer to go straight to the shave to test their razor for shave readiness, why not?


Scott

For me shave ready is when the razor gives me a close shave that leaves little irritation.

This is a better edge than the one that removes hair but scrapes my face but not as good as a comfortable shave. Better than the comfortable shave is the one that you barely fell but still feel the hairs being cut. Beyond that is the smooth squeegee shave.

For me a razor can be shave ready but still not as good as what I want to shave with. I can tell when a razor is shave ready but only after the shave test do I know if it is a razor I want to shave with or whether or not it needs more work.

The tough part here is that what shaves me well may not shave the next guy well every single time. People have different beards and everyone of us holds a razor differently. I have had people explain the problems they have had with their their faces for years and people also tell me the handle makes a difference and you know what..........There are a million variations. So for the mainstream what may be shave ready, will not be to the internet user who posts the most and that will get immediate recognition. So if there were 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 unhappy people out of 10,000 razors honed, would you figure the honer needed lessons...........even if he was still learning and his name did not start with a J.........

This is one of those threads that we'll need to add up the delegates and see how we stand against the general population on a global scale.

The other thing is "expectations" of new people until they really build the skill to master the angles and beard prep, may produce much varied results and invariably it is the razors fault.

Shave ready really should mean a nice clean smooth shave.

Oh......Did I mention that a new bottom of the line Dovo or TI may be shave ready, but there will be a definite difference in the shave to a better razor.

Have fun guys.

Lynn

This was really a loaded thread so to speak. I really do feel it is all subjective and I wish it wasn't but thats just how the way it is. let me illustrate. I just got my Zowada razor off the B&B buy and most of the people who have already received theirs have said its the most wonderful shaver out of the box they have ever experienced. Now I shaved with mine yesterday for the first time and I stropped only. Yes it gave a very clean close shave no doubt but for me I felt it was a tad rough around the edges so to speak. So a few strokes on the vintage escher and now its shaving the way I expect nice and comfortable. So, was the razor shave ready to me? On the one hand yes it did shave but on the other I was able to improve upon it so I would say in this case it was marginally shave ready but not truly shave ready. make sense? I don't think mine was any less shaveable than the others yet they were all satisfied so why was I not?

The answer is its all subjective based on ones own standards, and experiences and skills with respect to shaving. And that doesn't even take into account beard types, prep routines, phases of the moon and evil spirits. I think its one of the reasons in years passed everyone shaved with straights but how many truly were highly skilled with them? Now I'm not saying anyone here is not skilled with a straight but getting back to the original thred here it would be nice if someone could create some graph to quantify what a shave ready razor is. That would make it easy for everyone.

I say again "I'm very new to Straight shaving" so my opinion might be worthless!
I like my razors after I have used and stropped them once or twice after they have come back from being honed. I find them a little more forgiving after the first couple of shaves and 20-30 lashes on the stop.
But, "there is allways a but", my William Webster wedge only "bit" me when I deserved it, so to speak, straight out of the box on his return trip from Steve (blueprinciple) he was just right - for me?
M

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

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The answer is its all subjective based on ones own standards, and experiences and skills with respect to shaving. And that doesn't even take into account beard types, prep routines, phases of the moon and evil spirits. I think its one of the reasons in years passed everyone shaved with straights but how many truly were highly skilled with them? Now I'm not saying anyone here is not skilled with a straight but getting back to the original thred here it would be nice if someone could create some graph to quantify what a shave ready razor is. That would make it easy for everyone.

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I totally agree with this and would include barbers in the question as well.

"Shave ready" is subjective, but when you're talking about the term in the context of a professional service, I think we have to accept that there is a "zone" that is "shave ready" for the mainstream consumer and trust the pro to know where that is. Such an edge should shave the whiskers off one's face with reasonable comfort. As the consumer becomes more experienced, they will narrow that zone and have to tweak their professionally honed razors to get it there. That's the only way it can be.

Jordan

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Originally Posted by jnich67

"Shave ready" is subjective, but when you're talking about the term in the context of a professional service, I think we have to accept that there is a "zone" that is "shave ready" for the mainstream consumer and trust the pro to know where that is. Such an edge should shave the whiskers off one's face with reasonable comfort. As the consumer becomes more experienced, they will narrow that zone and have to tweak their professionally honed razors to get it there. That's the only way it can be.

Jordan

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I fully agree, in fact I expect that a "shave ready" razor will not be perfectly refined for me. Like Lyn said "Shave ready really should mean a nice clean smooth shave." this doesn't mean perfectly comfortably tuned to my face. I expect that the edge I receive is able to give me a close shave but is on the more durable side rather than the fragile perfection I have learned to like and am now able to work with and achieve on my own.

There is a very good reason I'm not even thinking about offering my services as a professional, and its not inexperience. I think that with what (minimal) experience I have I could get any halfway decent conditioned blade to shave readiness. I don't think though, that I could deal with the criticism of my skills or accommodate a wide enough range of people to make it a enjoyable past time for me. I really respect those who can.

I can remember my stropping and shaving mistakes in the beginning and now wonder that my first razor was able to cut hair even as my technique worked against it. I think that that edge was far rougher than what I now would enjoy but at that time exactly what I needed to keep going and making it through the tribulations of the beginning shaver.

I'll chime in here and agree with Tim. I started this whole game with a brand new, never been touched DOVO from ClassicShaving, a DMT D8EE, and an Illinois hanging strop. In the short time I've been at it, I already wonder how I ever managed to get hair off my face in the beginning.

I've never shaved with a razor honed by a "honemeister" or even another, more experienced than me straight razor user. So for me, shave ready is a measure of my own shaving comfort. Now, whenever I start to feel hesitation or pulling in a razor while I'm shaving, it's off to the CrO for a few laps, and then 50 to 100 laps each on the linen and leather and we're back in business.

I also agree strongly with the idea that there is a minimum bar, probably somewhere between passing the TNT and passing the HHT. In order to graduate someday with my BS in Computer Science from BYU I have to have a grade no lower than a C- (70%) in all of my major classes. This threshold theoretically tells employers/graduate programs etc... that I am not an absolute waste of their time. There are classes where on the first day of class I'd take that 70% and run, just like there were times when my DOVO wouldn't quite pass the HHT, but it would get the hair off my face (and in a more enjoyable manner than my Fusion ever did). There have also been times when on the first day of class I figured it would be the easiest A in my life and I barely managed to squeak by, just as there have been times when I razor that has popped hairs in half just by proximity has left me with a raw, burning face.

So what makes a shave-ready razor? I'd say a razor that anybody who doesn't accidentally destroy the edge (rolling, hitting the faucet, etc) can get the hair off their face with and do so more enjoyably than with their other/old method of shaving (electric, cartridge, etc...). This razor may leave a slightly rough patch or some light razor burn if not handled skillfully, but will do it's job.

From there, the difference between a "shave-ready" razor and a "superb shaver" (as Lynn says on his DVD) can be quite profound. A Marshes and Shepherd razor I picked up off ebay, cleaned up and honed myself, consistently out-shaves my DOVO even when the results of each razor on the HHT and TNT are virtually identical. Both are (in my uneducated opinion) definitely shave-ready, and I would recommend either to a newbie, but the Marshes & Shepherd would get a higher salary if I was an employer hiring it as a fresh-out-of-college Software Developer.

Just my $.02, hope it made sense.

what i have learned for me is this. i have somewhat fine hair and can easily get away with 2-3 days between shaves without issues from management. i have seen consistently with all shave ready razors i have, that if i can pop my hairs i pull from my brush with the grain going either way, then i will get a shave out of it.

my daughter has really fine hair and if i can get hers to fall over, from her brush, then that is a really keen razor to me. this has worked for me, however i have never had one pass this and not shave me well. so this is the standard that i go by.

with that said, i have seen difference in sharpness beyond the HHT. i am still working to get to this point, but i will prevail. and i don't have to have that for BBS.

vgod

well I have enjoyed reading this thread and seeing how many common factors emerge and it also shows a recurring theme or two.

I will say Im not overly impressed with the hanging hair test, as much as other people, i will agree that the shave is the best test of all, and yes, as we have heard our faces and hair are all different in so many ways regardless of the fact we all have it.

The HHT IMHO can be decieving as a blade that is well and properly honed may pass the test, however I believe because of how a blade becomes during honing, all uneven and raggedy ( under a microscope of course) will pass the same test, by catching the edge,these are just my thoughts though, i do not expect people to aggree or disagree with this theory as thats all it is.

I am not a honemeister but an amateur at best, however i endeavour to attain a good level of shave readiness, with the razors that have I have seperated with....boohoo...and hope that anyone would tell me if a razor they have recieved from me did not perform as well as expected.

So as far as I can see its an individual thing as you have all said already..i just wanted to share my thoughts on an excellent topic.

regards,simon:tu

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I agree with big spendur, it has to glide. I also agree with Lynn, that the only test that matters is the shave test.

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+1, I will not sell a razor that will not meet these requirements. If I won't shave with it, I won't sell it. Shave ready means it shaves and not almost either.

I also concur on this issue. The real test is the shave. I had one razor that didn't want to pass the HHT yet it shaved like a dream, I have also had the opposite. I think I have gotten a little better at honing, never on par with the honemeisters on this site but enough to amuse myself...:D