trad Japanese razor use

Hello gents,

I've been intrigued lately by what I've read about the Japanese razors from their steel, their asymetric blade design to it's unique technique in use.

As I understand it most are designed for right handers and are traditionally designed to be used with the concave toward the face, although both sides can be used with some adjustment to blade angles. I'm left hand dominant but can fair okay with using both hands for shaving with an trad english blade.

I'd really like to try one, using it how it was intended without changing hands, but how uncommon are the lefty Japanese blades? Do I just needs to suck it up and get better with my right if I have any desire to own own a "typical" Japanese razor? Or do I cough up some serious $ for a custom blade?

I'd welcome any and all views/advice on this.


Much thanks!

Have you seen this thread?:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/galle...ese-razor.html

X

Try PMing Russel Baldridge, he might be able to custom make you a Japanese style razor for left handed use.
He has put out a few excellent looking razors based on traditional Japanese designs.

I have only seen a limited number of Japanese razors and they all have been right hand use. With the exception of the feather ;)

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Originally Posted by xman

Have you seen this thread?:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/galle...ese-razor.html

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Yep. Great work and kudos for trying something new.:bow

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Try PMing Russel Baldridge, he might be able to custom make you a Japanese style razor for left handed use.
He has put out a few excellent looking razors based on traditional Japanese designs.

I have only seen a limited number of Japanese razors and they all have been right hand use. With the exception of the feather ;)

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I've tried to imagine the contortions needed to use a righty trad-style with the left hand and it would be next to impossible. So aside from contracting a custom blade, which I anticipate not being cheap, I may just have to develop a more skilled right hand :o

As for a Feather, I've read mixed opinions on it. I tend to be a traditionalist and the Feather wouldn't quite fit the profile.

Thanks for the posts guys.:)

In fact, I've already made a lefty:D. The very first one that I made was a lefty because it makes more sense for the way my beard grows, but turned out to be kinda awkward (just a little).

I've made and used the lefty grind, righty grind, and symmetrical grind and have to say that the symmetrical is my favorite.

Don't get me wrong, the traditional japanese blade is unique and I do enjoy using them quite a bit! But for ease of use, I'll reach for a symmetrical one. My arms just don't bend in enough places to get a truly great shave with the asymmetricals (unless I use both, as needed).

And as far as actual comfort, I found them to be equals. Since I have total control over the bevel angles, hardness of the steel and sharpness of the edge I have pretty much been able to eliminate many of the variables between the styles and do some real in depth shave testing (up to 6 different blades at a time, making short and thin passes, one after the other to see how they vary).

If there is a difference that is noticeable for the Iwasakis and Tosukes, it would have to be in the Japanese blade steel.

I am still trying to get my hands on a real one, but haven't been able to justify the expense yet. Maybe someone will trade me for one, or offer theirs if it's not being used, but until then I'll be using my own.

Don't know if that helped...:shrug:

Thanks for the post Russel. Very informative and great to hear of your experiences and experimentation. Sounds like you're having a lot of fun and have great passion for the craft. Keep us informed on your progress.

I just snagged on old one out of Japan for what I thought was a pretty okay price. Can't wait to try some contortions:o If it just won't work I'll pass it on to a righty here on SRP:D

I'll have to read up more on honing here. As I've gathered so far it's a different technique than an english symmetric blade.

PM'd you too.

Hipahipa!

I don't know about leftie-japanese razors, but I use my Iwasaki and my Tosuke on both sides and I only shave with my right hand. If it's properly honed, using both sides ain't an issue at all. YMMV, of course.

And congratulations on scoring a traditional japanese straight. Don't worry about honing, I honed my Tosuke just like I hone any other razor (I did include a few backwards-strokes every now and then on the finer hones, though) and it got wicked sharp in not much more time than any other razor.

Sorry but there are no lefty Japanese razors. They are all the same. Yes you can have someone custom make you a blade similar but it would not be a Japanese blade it would be a symmetric western styled blade but with a fixed design so it looks like a traditional japanese straight but it would not be one.

As far as using both sides of the razor, yes you can do that and it will work but sorry you don't get the bragging rights to say you mastered a japanese razor. Like learning to ride a bike with training wheels on and never taking them off. If you look at the iwasaki Razor you will notice it isn't just that the razor is asymmetric but the entire blade edge is canted towards the concave side which it the side that should remain to your face at all times. I'm not sure if the Tosuke is the same but that will affect using the razor from the convex side. Also if you sharpen one the same way you sharpen a western style razor you are slowly changing the symmetry of the thing.

They are different and require different techniques for honing and shaving. That's what makes them different, challenging and fun to use. Just another dynamic in learning to use different kinds of straights. If you take the time to properly learn you will be rewarded with the best possible shave you wil ever get.

I really don't think it matters which hand is your dominant hand . I use both hands (not at the same time:D) when I shave with my Tosuke or any other razor .

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Sorry but there are no lefty Japanese razors. They are all the same. Yes you can have someone custom make you a blade similar but it would not be a Japanese blade it would be a symmetric western styled blade but with a fixed design so it looks like a traditional japanese straight but it would not be one.

As far as using both sides of the razor, yes you can do that and it will work but sorry you don't get the bragging rights to say you mastered a japanese razor. Like learning to ride a bike with training wheels on and never taking them off. If you look at the iwasaki Razor you will notice it isn't just that the razor is asymmetric but the entire blade edge is canted towards the concave side which it the side that should remain to your face at all times. I'm not sure if the Tosuke is the same but that will affect using the razor from the convex side. Also if you sharpen one the same way you sharpen a western style razor you are slowly changing the symmetry of the thing.

They are different and require different techniques for honing and shaving. That's what makes them different, challenging and fun to use. Just another dynamic in learning to use different kinds of straights. If you take the time to properly learn you will be rewarded with the best possible shave you wil ever get.

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Since a Japanese blade is designed for one side towards the face, the concave is is on one side of the razor, right? On Tosukes and Iwasakis they are all the same, and they are all designed for being used with the right hand, no? I believe the question being asked is: "can I get a true, assymetric Japanese razor, that has the concave on the opposite side?"

That would make it a "left-handed" Japanese razor.

I came across this vid on YouTube:

YouTube - Happy Happy Go Shaving Day!

It appears both sides of the razor are being used, for this application at least. Angles do change depending which side is used. But...user and blade are right handed :( A decent example of this blade in use!

Is that a weight on the top of the blade?

Yes but in the video the razor is being used more as a cosmetic thing to shave a woman. I can't tell if its a specialized razor for that purpose or not.

Yes traditional razors are designed to be used with the right hand. A guy I knew from Japan once told me (and I don't know if he was pulling my leg or not) that there were no "left handed" people in Japan. Lefthandedness is looked upon with much disfavor and kids who are left handed are forced to be right handed.I don't know if that's true or not or maybe it was the case but Japanese razors would have to have the handle reversed the be left handed.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

A guy I knew from Japan once told me (and I don't know if he was pulling my leg or not) that there were no "left handed" people in Japan. Lefthandedness is looked upon with much disfavor and kids who are left handed are forced to be right handed.I don't know if that's true or not or maybe it was the case but Japanese razors would have to have the handle reversed the be left handed.

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Thats probably true, certainly was in the west. Using your left hand was considered evil and you'd get a ruler wrapped across your knuckles. All that went out the window once corporal punishment was abolished. So perhaps Christians introduced that belief into Japan. :shrug:

I have seen all of 2 left handed Japanese in my time, and my wife says its rare.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yes but in the video the razor is being used more as a cosmetic thing to shave a woman. I can't tell if its a specialized razor for that purpose or not.

Yes traditional razors are designed to be used with the right hand. A guy I knew from Japan once told me (and I don't know if he was pulling my leg or not) that there were no "left handed" people in Japan. Lefthandedness is looked upon with much disfavor and kids who are left handed are forced to be right handed.I don't know if that's true or not or maybe it was the case but Japanese razors would have to have the handle reversed the be left handed.

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Yeah. I suspect they are a specialized razor for that task. But the blade still looks like the typical Japanese asymmetric razor type.

As for left handedness, all that repression was due to a fear that the superior handed (left) people would rule the world:D

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Originally Posted by tsquare

... all that repression was due to a fear that the superior handed (left) people would rule the world:D

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Sounds sinister.

Sounds pre toilet paper and hygiene.

I believe that lefty's are superior(I am a lefty:)).

I believe Hitler was a lefty,he was a little superior to my goldfish;)
but had a bad moustache.

I live in Japan and I work in an elementary school. We have left handed kids here and they do write with their left hands.

Go lefty's.:tu

I have a Tosuke and used it fully with the concave side down. The contours of the blade are such that it seems to curve inward creating a more radical/aggressive attack to your skin and beard. Thus you would use lesser of an angle to your face. It is difficult to do this and do a fully adequate job.
Prior to learning how to hold the razor differently for different regions of my face, I did work both sides. It did very well. It seems that the insistence on use concave side in only, is a matter of "traditional shoulds or supposed to" rather then actual practicality.
It also seems to me that Japan has a long tradition of being a service culture. Perhaps the 'traditional shaves' were performed by a barber/shaver on the person receiving the shave. It would therefore be possible that this tradition is a function of the service culture, specialization, and compartmentalization of labor.
Just a thought.
Headdoc

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. As you said, the razor is canted towards the concave side making it difficult to shave properly with the convex side. The issue is we all are looking at this as westerners and don't and can't fully understand the whys and wherefores of this contraption so we try and westernize its use to suit our experiences.

The fact is the thing is designed to be used a certain way and certainly you can use it any way you wish but its no different than using any other tool and not understanding it and using it improperly but taking the attitude of well it works so it's right for me.

Saying that they were designed to be used by barbers in giving shaves to others is like saying cars were meant to be driven by chauffers not owners.

Do you think that holds true for the feather AC(Japanese style) too?I mean the design aspect of it.

My understanding of the feather is that it uses blades that are the same on both sides though the style is japanese so you could use either side. The Traditional Japanese Straight has an asymmetric blade so there is a difference.Unless of course I'm wrong and those feather blades are different on either side. I know a few guys have them here. Maybe they will chime in.

They are the same on both sides. I was just wondering if the basic design was for a barber to use instead of the person shaving.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

My understanding of the feather is that it uses blades that are the same on both sides though the style is japanese so you could use either side. The Traditional Japanese Straight has an asymmetric blade so there is a difference.Unless of course I'm wrong and those feather blades are different on either side. I know a few guys have them here. Maybe they will chime in.

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Yes the blades are shaped the same on both sides and the blade holder/handle is also the same shape on both sides, nothing at all like a traditional Japanese straight. All in all the only similarity to a traditional one, is the fixed handle.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. As you said, the razor is canted towards the concave side making it difficult to shave properly with the convex side. The issue is we all are looking at this as westerners and don't and can't fully understand the whys and wherefores of this contraption so we try and westernize its use to suit our experiences.

The fact is the thing is designed to be used a certain way and certainly you can use it any way you wish but its no different than using any other tool and not understanding it and using it improperly but taking the attitude of well it works so it's right for me.

Saying that they were designed to be used by barbers in giving shaves to others is like saying cars were meant to be driven by chauffers not owners.

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Limos are built for chauffers, not regular cars. Same with an asymetrical blade versus a symmetrical one.

On the Rasurpur site, they have a listing for a "surgeons' razor, that is a very similar grind to aJapanese style razor.
http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/...s/SURGEON2.jpg
Flat on one side, concave on the other, designed for one person to shave another, not intended for personal use. Sure, you CAN use it for yourself if you want to. You can also drive yourself around in a limo if you want to...

As you say, we as westerners have a different mindset about things. One of these, especially for Americans is about "doing it myself".

As someone who has been to Japan on numerous occaisions I can say that they certainly do things differently over there. As mentioned above, the service culture is markedly different, and I can readily believe that the traditional Japanese style of razor was designed for one person to shave another.