As smooth as a modern cartridge system? I think not

Seriously, can a straight make my chin as smooth as a modern razor? I mean, the makers spend millions on research or something like that, right?

I have been using straights for a few months now and have been learning a lot from this forum (about shaving and honing - thanks!). But even after using a 16k shapton for honing, my chin will never be as smooth as with a modern razor, no matter if I stretch the skin, shave up, down, left or right, at any angle and any pressure. It will always be acceptable and sometimes quite good but compete with the modern one? I don't think that's realistic.

Does anyone think they actually get the same smoothness at the edge of the chin regardless of which kind of razor they use?

yep. my chin gets every bit as smooth with the straight is it did with mach3 and fusion shavers. it took about half a year before I was able to accomplish this, though.

All chins/whiskers are not created equal. It's been so long since I've used a cartridge razor but I can get my chin smooth with a straight. What the straight razor does for me that cartridges and electrics just can't give me is DURATION of a close shave. My straight razor shaves last a long time before I get noticeable stubble. Electrics, even the $150 ones are a joke for me in this regard. I can look smooth in the AM with one and look like a slob by 5 o'clock. Other methods of shaving including DE have never given me that kind of duration coupled with comfort.

YMMV

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Oliver

Does anyone think they actually get the same smoothness at the edge of the chin regardless of which kind of razor they use?

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I hear your frustration, and I've been there. It is the only part of my technique (the chin) that is still changing from time to time, but I've found the changes are dependent on the razor I'm using. So the short answer is; No, not regardless of which kind of razor.

I have a technique for a razor that I *thought* was "shave ready", and one for a razor that is "shave ready".

What happens with me is I'll shave with a razor I've practiced honing, and felt shave ready, but I've met with disappointment at my chin and the sides of my upper lip (the two tell-all spots for me). This has been a fairly consistent issue. I will either have to stop short of a perfect shave, or finish up with a truly "shave ready" razor.

The one consistency is, all the razors (regardless of make or design) that I get a perfect shave with came to me professionally honed (mostly by someone in the forums). This is refreshing since I *know* my razors can get there, and this keeps me trying for the perfect honing technique.

All I can offer for advice is: Good prep, lots of lather, a "shave ready" razor, and technique. The result of a perfect BBS is totally possible.

Guys,

OK that sounds intriguing. But is the BBS shave judged during the shave or after cold water has been applied and the skin has contracted again?

Chris, how long do your shaves last?

Oliver

If I do a full WTG, XTG, ATG on my cheeks and an WTG and XTG on my neck and chin (I Don't do ATG on my neck and chin), I have been able to get 24 hours before my stubble looks like the "5 o'clock shadow" kind of stubble but it depends on the edge and even the razor to a degree. More typically 12-18 hours or about twice as long.

BBS for me is after I'm all done with the shave (cold water, alum block, Thayers).

Chris L

I definately get a better shave with the straight vs any other method I've tried so far. Just as an example I'm in the military and normally have to shave every day, but since getting into straights I've found I could shave 2 passes, wtg and xtg, the night before work and have a good shave the next day still better than most others who I work with. Today was a bit of an exception, I shaved yesterday around noon, two passes, and this morning I decided not to shave as I still didn't have enough whiskers to shave. First time that has happened, I almost did that one time before but it wasn't good enough as if I come to work with an unsat shave I can get in a bit of trouble.

I can get smoother shaves more consistently with a DE but usually get some ingrown hairs when I use that. Thats not to say I can't get a smooth shave with my straights, just not quite as consistently yet on my neck and chin.

You should be able to get your chin as smooth or smoother than cartridge razors. A truly sharp razor is the first step. Proper prep, always with the grain first. One thing I developed was my final pass was with water only. I keep the chin wet the entire time. Stretch from in front of the blade (very, very carefully!!!!) and target a small patch of whiskers. Just move from patch to patch, being careful and mindful of pressure. Finish with cold water rinse. My chin stays much smoother, much longer with a straight than anything else... typically lasts 2x as long as with a DE.

smoother my friend, much smoother.

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Originally Posted by Oliver

Seriously, can a straight make my chin as smooth as a modern razor? I mean, the makers spend millions on research or something like that, right?

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They spend millions on marketing research and advertising. :hmmm:

Smooth does not come in gradations for me.
After my shave, when my skin has dried, I run my finger in every possible direction over my face.
If I don't feel any stubble on a particular spot, then that spot is declared smooth. Otherwise it isn't.
It's a binary thing for me.
So far I have never managed to get it smooth all over. I always manage to get smooth for at least 90% of my beard area. The chin is not a problem zone for me. It asks for utmost concentration, but I can get it done every single time. My problem areas are along my jawbone. I have a fairly invisible, but deep scar at the left jawbone. And I'm also having smoothness issues at a hollow part of my neck.
I have managed to get each of those spots completely smooth on occasion, but so far never all at once.

I like to think that upon transferring the knowledge gained from straight razor shaving to my former DE, that I should be able to get about the same great results. Shaving used to be a total disaster, during my DE-years. (I only shaved a couple of times each year, and used a beard trimmer at the zero setting weekly) But I'm out of DE-blades, and I don't plan on buying any.

Bart.

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Originally Posted by Oliver

Seriously, can a straight make my chin as smooth as a modern razor? I mean, the makers spend millions on research or something like that, right?

I have been using straights for a few months now and have been learning a lot from this forum (about shaving and honing - thanks!). But even after using a 16k shapton for honing, my chin will never be as smooth as with a modern razor, no matter if I stretch the skin, shave up, down, left or right, at any angle and any pressure. It will always be acceptable and sometimes quite good but compete with the modern one? I don't think that's realistic.

Does anyone think they actually get the same smoothness at the edge of the chin regardless of which kind of razor they use?

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You should be banned!! :D
Seriously... It takes time to get really smooth shaves all over, especially on the "trouble spots"... I, for instance, have been shaving with a straight exclusively for 9 months and only now can I get smooth on the chin...

I never have tried a cartridge razor. For many years I used Gillette 'Good News' disposables. When I got back into DE shaving a couple of years ago I pretty much settled on the Merkur Slant with Feather blades.

It has taken nine months of using a straight exclusively but I can now equal the results of two passes with the slant/feather using a straight. I find the straight superior in comfort as well.

When I switched to a SR people were still using double edge razors so, ya my shave is just as good as a "modern razor'. :rolleyes: DS

As smooth yes...as fast no. I'm a reformed Mach 3 user and that is my standard as it got me the smoothest and longest lasting shave of anything I'd used before returning to straights after a long absence. And at the risk of being burned at the stake I'll admit that if for some reason I have to be clean shaven in 5 minutes I'll grab the M3 instead of my straight.

You say you've only been honing and shaving a couple months. I'd say that straights are like shooting pool...some people are naturals and others require lots of practice before becoming proficient. Keep trying and you will eventually discover the magic combination of prep, sharpness, angle, and part of the blade to use that will get er done. :D

I can shave my chin with an electric and its BBS however 4 hours later there's stubble. I can get the same effect with a straight and the stubble doesn't even begin for about 18 hours later.

Pretty much what others have said: it takes time (I've been using straights for ~9 months and I can now consistently get a smoothe chin, but only if my razor is completely shave-ready; otherwise not quite.
You just have to experiment to see what works for your beard/facial contours. And yes, this can take months...

As far as duration, I'm usually smooth for 9-12 hours before I feel anything w/ ~24 hours before I get the 5 o'clock shadow effect. D/Es for me were smoother than any cartridge and my str8 shaves are smoother & last twice as long (with much less chance of any ingrowns) so...:w Keep trying; you'll get it.

cartridge razors always gave me razor burn and never as good as my first straight shave (which wasn't that great). i am still definitely a newb as far as straight razors go but i take my time on my chin as i do on the rest of my face. no matter it is better either way i look at it. my razor was pre honed from Tony Miller. the only thing i might do is keep a nice DE around for quick shaves as i had one for a while and it was nice, but not as close.

down with the cartridge razor!!! ha!

I've been straight shaving for a few months so I'm still early in the learning process, but the shaves I'm getting now are at least as close as they were with a cartridge razor. I just gave away about fifty bucks worth of disposable cartridges to a friend (don't worry, I'll turn him away from the dark side soon). I'll never spend a dime on that overpriced trash again.

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Originally Posted by Oliver

Seriously, can a straight make my chin as smooth as a modern razor? I mean, the makers spend millions on research or something like that, right?

I have been using straights for a few months now and have been learning a lot from this forum (about shaving and honing - thanks!). But even after using a 16k shapton for honing, my chin will never be as smooth as with a modern razor, no matter if I stretch the skin, shave up, down, left or right, at any angle and any pressure. It will always be acceptable and sometimes quite good but compete with the modern one? I don't think that's realistic.

Does anyone think they actually get the same smoothness at the edge of the chin regardless of which kind of razor they use?

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Give it a little time Sir! Some get great shaves right off the bat, and others take a little while! I was in the latter group. It took approximately 2 years to get it down and get great shaves on a consistent basis.
1 pass and a little touch up keeps my face smooth and stubble free much longer than an electric or atra II! 2 passes and its usually 18 to 24 hours before I notice any growth at all!

I can get a closer shave with a straight (or DE) than with a modern cartridge razor. As for the chin....give it time. You'll eventually learn how to do it.

It's taken me over a year to achieve a smooth chin. And even now, it only works if my razor is freshly honed.
But then again, I never was BBS from my mach3 either.
Unless I used the infamous '300 pass' technique, of course. Also known as 'extreme exfoliation'. :roflmao

I should add that I only shave every 2 or 3 days, so that is probably another reason why it's taken me so long, together with the fact that my chin hairs are tough.

don't give up. straights have a learning curve, and all pieces of the puzzle have to come together in order to get good results:
- good stropping
- good edge
- good lather / prep
- good technique

I will admit that it takes longer with a str8 than a mock3 but I can get my chin just as smooth. It is a matter of experience and patience. I will never go back to a cartridge razor.

Yes. The straight gives me a smoother shave than electric or modern "saftey" razors. I sometimes use my old Rolls Razor (which is almost a straight) when traveling.

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Pardon me if this is a repeat. I'm not sure how to post replies. Yes. The straight gives me a smoother shave than electric or modern "saftey" razors. I sometimes use my old Rolls Razor (which is almost a straight) when traveling.

About 4 or 5 months into shaving with a straight, I was finally able to get my chin smoother and more comfortable than I ever was able to with cartridge razors.

I never achieved bbs with cartridge razors. There was to much blood and irritation although that was years ago and maybe I've learned better tactics since then

I returned to straights a couple of months ago after a long hiatus. Only now am I starting to get the hang of shaving my chin again. It'll come with practice.

It's still most difficult for me to get BBS on my neck as the grain there runs left to right with a slight downward angle. BBS there is easy with a multi-blade as I can go ATG. With a straight, I usually just go XTG on the neck unless I have a lot of time on my hands. Going ATG there with a straight usually results in my nicking, no, lacerating myself. Hoping that smiling blade that I'm restoring will help there.

I can get a smooth chin with a m3, de or a straight. I only do two passes with any razor because any more and the razor burn kicks in bad. My whiskers grow pretty fast as well, I have noticeable stubble by 4pm after a 7am shave.

Stick with it, you'll be getting that chin smooth before you know it.

No problem getting my chin BBS. Just stick with it-practice makes perfect. Slow deliberate technique and a VERY sharp razor and you too will be good to go.:tu

Don't judge your shave by how it feels afterwards. Judge it by how it feels the next day. Everybody is different but with a mach 3 I get very sharp dark regrowth, and the skin is very red and sore the next day. I get similar with a DE. With a straight the regrowth is even and doesn't look as bad, my skin doesn't get sore or red.
After the shave, no it isn't as smooth for me but the overall experience is better. Try to judge the shave by long term experience and not just by how it feels right after you finish. As you get better you will appreciate it. For me It took a long time to fully enjoy it maybe 4 months, but I am still improving now.

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Originally Posted by Oliver

Seriously, can a straight make my chin as smooth as a modern razor? I mean, the makers spend millions on research or something like that, right?

I have been using straights for a few months now and have been learning a lot from this forum (about shaving and honing - thanks!). But even after using a 16k shapton for honing, my chin will never be as smooth as with a modern razor, no matter if I stretch the skin, shave up, down, left or right, at any angle and any pressure. It will always be acceptable and sometimes quite good but compete with the modern one? I don't think that's realistic.

Does anyone think they actually get the same smoothness at the edge of the chin regardless of which kind of razor they use?

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In answer to the question posed in the header, easily. Give it time. I'm eight months in and still learning. Alternatively, give it up. Not trying to be funny here, but perhaps it's not for you. Only just got the hang of honing (retouching on a coticule, nothing serious). Seriously, enjoy the ride. Do you still touch up with cartridges? Maybe time to put them aside for a while?

If that comes across as agressive, please ignore. Honestly not meant that way:tu:tu.

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Originally Posted by AlanII

In answer to the question posed in the header, easily. Give it time. I'm eight months in and still learning. Alternatively, give it up. Not trying to be funny here, but perhaps it's not for you. Only just got the hang of honing (retouching on a coticule, nothing serious). Seriously, enjoy the ride. Do you still touch up with cartridges? Maybe time to put them aside for a while?

If that comes across as agressive, please ignore. Honestly not meant that way:tu:tu.

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I think you are right on the money Alan II!


Good luck Oliver!!:gl:

Oliver,

It doesn't matter what grit hones you have over 8k if you con't get a proper edge. +1 on the replys about prep, lather, technique and practice but if you are basing your results on a razor you honed yourself with a few months practice on the hone you are probably not where you think you are. If you want to learn how to hone your own blades get at least two str8s. One honed by a honemister and one to practice your honong with. You will have a standard to measure against in honing and be able to perfect your techinque under optimin conditions, which is a good edge on your blade. Sounds to me like you don't have the patients to handel honing and shave technique at the same time or your are underestimating the skill/art involved in straight shaving and honing. Sorry if this offends you but I am calling it as I see it.

I stoped using my mach 3 razor about 3 yrs ago. I gave it to my wife. From tme to time, I'll try a fresh cartige just out of curitousity. And always, I find that using a straight is always closer. I even tried using the mach 3 with 6-8 passes in various directions to see if that would help. But in the end, my striaght is always closer. As far as my chin, I guess that I was blessed with a easy chin to shave. I've never had a problem with it, just a small part on my neck next to the jugular.

When I switched to just using my striaght (sometimes with a DE), I just made it a rule that I would either go unshaven that day, or use my straight. Those were the choices.

As far as using electrics, I used to use a cheap one about 6 yrs ago when I would to the feild in the Army for training. It worked, pulled lots of hair out, but I didn;t care if it only lasted for a month. I wouldn't use an electric if one was given to me.

Yes, I get a closer shave with a straight. It took me 6 months to get that close, another 6 months to get that close without irritating my skin.

I've never gone back to cartridge, so perhaps my memory serves me wrong? Nope. Because with Muck III I used to need to shave every 2 days. Now it's every 3.

But I have to admit, it is a long journey to smooth, burn-free easy shaves with a straight. Technique, prep, honing, stropping and patience need to be mastered in turn. If you don't like the journey, it might not be for you.

I've been straight shaving now for 18 months, and can honstly say that I had an easy start getting straight into it with little difficulty. I have a story that may be interesting though...

I went on a stag do on canal barges to Holland - no Its not that sort of story. Rather then take a straight with me - as I know how a bunch of guys can be when they are drunk - I took my old muck 3 with me to shave.

It took my skin about a month to recover from the two shaves I had on that barge. My neck was covered in a rash after the first shave (and these were brand new cartridges) and I had ingrowing hairs on my cheeks after the second.

Seriously - the cartridges just wreck your skin. I am not sure I can say with hand on heart that the result is any different with straight or with muck 3. Smooth skin is smooth skin right? The straight shave certainly lasts longer, as many have already stated, but the differece straights make to your skin is phenomenal.

Sunsi

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Originally Posted by Sunsi

Seriously - the cartridges just wreck your skin. I am not sure I can say with hand on heart that the result is any different with straight or with muck 3. Smooth skin is smooth skin right? The straight shave certainly lasts longer, as many have already stated, but the differece straights make to your skin is phenomenal.

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I agree. I've been shaving with a straight for about two months now and even though my technique cannot possibly be that great yet, the shaves definitely last longer than with Mach3 and I have much less skin problems (at least when I remember to shave using very little pressure :o). I think I get a bit smoother shave with a straight, but that is not the main point as it is possible to get a very smooth shave with a cartridge razor, too.

But why you actually get a longer lasting smoothness after shaving with a straight razor, remains a mystery to me! I didn't really believe it until I experienced it myself, because it makes more sense to get a longer lasting shave with the cartridges. They are supposed to lift the whiskers and cut them with the extra blades under the skin surface level, right?

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Originally Posted by Nulq

But why you actually get a longer lasting smoothness after shaving with a straight razor, remains a mystery to me! I didn't really believe it until I experienced it myself, because it makes more sense to get a longer lasting shave with the cartridges. They are supposed to lift the whiskers and cut them with the extra blades under the skin surface level, right?

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the whiskers are more afraid to resurface after being shaved with a straight razor

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

the whiskers are more afraid to resurface after being shaved with a straight razor

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Hmm... I've got a quite decent axe. :medvl:

Maybe I'll hone it to shave ready and just hang it next to my shaving mirror just to scare the whiskers into hiding. BBS for weeks? :cool:

Oliver: Give it some time and you will see for yourself. If you want to be convinced right now, find an old fashioned Barber and let him give you a straight razor shave.

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Originally Posted by Otto

Oliver: Give it some time and you will see for yourself. If you want to be convinced right now, find an old fashioned Barber and let him give you a straight razor shave.

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This is way true.. The first time I had my barber shave me I didn't have to shave again for 3 days.