Coarse hair or not sharp edge?

Hello all shavers and experts :)

Must check my shaving experience....

My facial hair is quite coarse. My first round is shaving downwards on face. After that i still feel the beard all over the face. So i start lather for 2nd round and then im trying to do cross-over and against grain.

On my 2nd round is when my problems start. It feels like the razor is jumping over the straws that are left. I can see on my razor i get tiny bits of the straws shaven. Dont know what to call the straws that are left on the cheeks after 1st round, i think you know what i mean. Then there are those straws that grow along my wrinkles on the throat. Having real hard time getting them at all.

Since the razor is starting to jump over the straws, my 1st reaction is to push a little harder. Doing that makes my skin burn after a while and i end up getting a quite bad shave-experience. Still i like standing there and trying to get a shave with the cut-throat razor (like the sound of that name).

I got my new Norton stone 4000/8000 and have used it once. I prepared it with stages of 280, 320, 480, 600 and 1000 grit papers. Then i started to hone the razor with the pyramid technique. After that i went to the strop with approx 50-75 strokes. Everything is done with very light to none pressure.

I know, it takes long time to even master a tiny bit of straight razor shaving. What should i do with my facial hair :thinking:.. Should i focus on my razor and get it sharper?

I guess that those of you experienced in this have seen this question lots of time. Where should i get my focus while getting more experience?

Regards,

Rikard

Hey,

New myself, but had a decent shave thismorning, one that i'd actually go out in public without finishing off with a disposable,

Few things for me, i wasn't stretching my skin very well, for my cheeks and stuff. I'm a pretty tubby guy, and today i actually found if i blow out my cheeks, like im blowing up a balloon i was able to get a better shave. Looked a bit silly tho,

I also have started honing my own razor, and i dont think i really know what a 'shave ready' razor feels like, but my test so far has been to shave some arm hair, and gently move the razor along. If it gets to a hair and pops it off right at the base of the hair without an issue, i figure it should be sharp enough to shave. I also then strop it.

If you feel it's sharp, or has been pro honed perviously, maybe try the nortons pyramid,

link

If you're razor is quite sharp, just try the top sequence first and see if you notice a difference.

Lots of other factors are involved tho, what was your prep like, the angle of the blade while shaving.

Also all the other issues, is your hone lapped, etc

Good luck, dont give up

edit - just re-read your post, i think i've gone off subject a bit..

It sounds like prep maybe, or yeah, not being shave ready...

Hello and welcome Rikard to SRP. You seem to have the lower end of the grits pretty well in place but could use some help on the higher grits. Find a polishing stone in the 12K to 16K range and the choices are many. I think a new honer would do well with a two sided paddle with 1.0 or .5 micron diamond paste on one side and CrO on the other. These choices would bring your blade to a much higher level of sharpness and smoothness.

bj

It sounds to me like an edge that is not sharp enough. Coarse hair or not the razor should cut with light pressure rather then skip or pull. If you get a 20 or 30X eye loupe or a hand held microscope you will be able to see if the bevel is set correctly. That is the foundation of a shave ready edge.

Check out the Wiki at the top of the page . There are shaving and honing tutorials in there that are very instructive. If you were to get another razor pre-honed or send yours out to a honemiester that would give you an example of what a really sharp razor feels like. :gl:

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Originally Posted by reaction

My facial hair is quite coarse. My first round is shaving downwards on face. After that i still feel the beard all over the face.

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No matter how sharp the razor, my first pass always leaves visual stubble. The few straight razor shavers that I saw shaving "live" had the same. I think it is pretty normal.

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Originally Posted by reaction

On my 2nd round is when my problems start. It feels like the razor is jumping over the straws that are left. I can see on my razor i get tiny bits of the straws shaven. Dont know what to call the straws that are left on the cheeks after 1st round, i think you know what i mean. Then there are those straws that grow along my wrinkles on the throat. Having real hard time getting them at all.

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A shaveready razor should not skip whiskers if the skin is stretched well and if the cutting angle is well adjusted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reaction

Since the razor is starting to jump over the straws, my 1st reaction is to push a little harder. Doing that makes my skin burn after a while and i end up getting a quite bad shave-experience. Still i like standing there and trying to get a shave with the cut-throat razor (like the sound of that name).

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It's an intuitive thing to push down when the razor is not shaving well, but you really need to avoid that. As you already observed, it only leads to irritation. You can try to maximize your beard prep, by showering before the shave, and try to use a shallower cutting angle when going against the grain. If that doesn't cut it, you need to question the sharpness of the razor.

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Originally Posted by reaction

I got my new Norton stone 4000/8000 and have used it once. I prepared it with stages of 280, 320, 480, 600 and 1000 grit papers. Then i started to hone the razor with the pyramid technique. After that i went to the strop with approx 50-75 strokes. Everything is done with very light to none pressure.

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Have you prepared the Norton with the sandpapers, or have you been honing on them with the razor? Have you tried the HHT (hanging hair test) on your razor? I know many forum members don't rely on that test, but for newbies with sharpness questions, it's an easy to perform test to find out if your blade is capable of severing hair effortlessly. Use thick, freshly washed hair and strop the blade prior to the test. (The HHT can be used at various stages while honing too, but for your needs right now, we're questioning the razors performance after stropping).

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Originally Posted by reaction

I guess that those of you experienced in this have seen this question lots of time. Where should i get my focus while getting more experience?

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It's not good that you must second guess your razor's performance while still learning. I suggest using a razor honed by someone with the right skills and another one you could use to practice your own honing skills.

Bart.

I 2nd that bevel is the foundation of the razor's edge. When I first started it took me a while to figure out why a NOS razor was so hard to sharpen...until I got aggressive enough to cut that first bevel correctly on new or NOS blades. Technique for 1rst bevel differs greatly than regular honing IMO and experience. For me I have found a superfine diamond hone and the Japanese honing technique to work best for that 1rst bevel, especially if your hone is over 3" wide in diameter and at least 8". The bevel 1rst cut should be almost sharpness level to shave, then building on that foundation the pyramid honing/polishing with fine water stones (or other) will take the edge to hair popping sharpness. As with all razor honing pressure must be light to not distort geometry, then polishing gets even lighter as you progress to the final stages of polish/honing.
Stropping is the final steps to really polish up the honed edge.

Hello again and thanks for the replies!

First i must say i am the stubborn kind of guy, who wants to do everything on my own. In my head there is a voice telling me: -This is something you have to learn and do on your own, Rikard! A bit silly when trying to learn something that seems quite hard as honing. :gth

For me, think my problems come down to the sharpness of my razor. My preparations are always at least a 10 minute shower with soaping and cleaning the face. With water dropping from my face i start lather up and when it seems good, i apply it to my face. I'm using Aloe Vera shaving cream from Edwin Jagger and a quality shaving brush from same company. After the shave im using Geo F Trumper Sandalwood Skin Food. A few times so far, i have been in the sauna for 20-30 minutes before i shower and shave.

When i bought my 4000/8000 stone i also bought another new razor, also a Solingen razor, in case i might mess the first one up. Not sure i should try hone it myself. Better try to see if there is a honemeister nearby. The Atlantic sea seems so big and America so far away :w

Seems i have to work on my razor a bit more, maybe get a used one on an auction site or a "used items market" and continue my exploration in honing. Hehe, the sandpapers were only for the hone to be lapped. I will look into the market for higher grits stones.

Im a bit confused about the 1.0 or .5 micron diamond paste and CrO. Wich is coarser than the other? Can the paddlestrop with diamond- or CrO-paste be used instead of a higher grit stone? When i bought my hanging strop, i also ordered a paste with yellow mark on it and i have also used some Mink oil to soften the strop up a bit.

I have some leather here at home and was thinking of making my own paddle strop with 2 leather sides, so its only some paste on it that is required i guess.

Finally, even though my skin gets irritated after the shave, i thank god for the skin food (or at least i think it's due to it). After a couple of hours its not so bad even though i still can feel my whiskers :hmmm: that doesnt wanna come off....

Well, lots of text and i hope you can find a thread in my labyrinth of thoughts :)

Regards,

Rikard

Good way to start learning to grind that 1rst bevel is on a cheap ebay razor with not too much spine edge wear.What you want to look for is an even fin line and hair popping sharpness even on the low grit bevel hone. Easy on the pressure, and make sure pressure is even across the blade. under magnifying glass, no reflection spots on the edge itself will show you are close. Once you got a good bevel, then the pyramid scheme with finess till the stropping with finess. smaller microns strop pastes = less coarse. Best to go high grit final hone then paste strop, instead of paste strop as replacement. Just my 2 cents, everyone has a different way, I'm no expert but it works for me. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by reaction

For me, think my problems come down to the sharpness of my razor. My preparations are always at least a 10 minute shower with soaping and cleaning the face. With water dropping from my face i start lather up and when it seems good, i apply it to my face. I'm using Aloe Vera shaving cream from Edwin Jagger and a quality shaving brush from same company. After the shave im using Geo F Trumper Sandalwood Skin Food. A few times so far, i have been in the sauna for 20-30 minutes before i shower and shave.

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It indeed sounds as a sharpness issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reaction

When i bought my 4000/8000 stone i also bought another new razor, also a Solingen razor, in case i might mess the first one up. Not sure i should try hone it myself. Better try to see if there is a honemeister nearby. The Atlantic sea seems so big and America so far away :w

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I 'm in Belgium, and I offer honing services, but I'm sure there are Scandinavian members that could help you out too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reaction

Im a bit confused about the 1.0 or .5 micron diamond paste and CrO. Wich is coarser than the other? Can the paddlestrop with diamond- or CrO-paste be used instead of a higher grit stone? When i bought my hanging strop, i also ordered a paste with yellow mark on it and i have also used some Mink oil to soften the strop up a bit.

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The yellow stuff is probably Dovo's strop conditioner. It contains no abrasives, but it needs to be use very sparingly. If you regularly rub the strop with your hands, you might never have to use anything else. CrO is considered to be .5 micron, and it leaves a smoother edge than the diamond pastes, which produce very keen but slightly harsher edges.

In my opinion, it is best to first master the Norton. You should be able to get a shaveready edge of it. The pastes can improve that edge as do various other hones, but you'll keep struggling with your honing forever if you can't first maximize your results with a basic honing setup.

It is possible that your razor is shy of a good finishing on the 8K, but it is equally possible that the cutting bevel of that razor is not up to par, as Tewrap already pointed out.

Here's a controversial, but imo great trick to make sure your razor has a good bevel before moving to the 8K or to pyramids for finalizing the edge.
Place the razor with the edge down on the bottom of a glass jar or a whisky glass or something similar. Without applying any pressure drag the edge once or twice over the glass, as if you were trying to cut it. This dulls the edge. It will now fail all tests. It will not cut arm hair, it will not pass TNT or TPT. But it the bevel was fine, it will only take a small amount of work on the 4K before you're shaving arm hairs again. If the bevel was off, it will require more work, possibly much more, but as soon as you can shave arm hair again along the entire length of the blade, you know you've accompliched a fine bevel. Try to end the bevel work with your lightest strokes possible and keep the strokes that way from here on. As soon as the bevel is properly set, you could move to pyramiding or just finish on the 8K, whatever you prefer to do.
The resulting edge should not display the skipping whiskers problem you described earlier.

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Originally Posted by reaction

Regards,

Rikard

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As a Startrek fan, I cannot else but like your name (Riker+Picard=Rikard?):)

Best regards,

Bart.