You Don't Get the Best Shave with A Straight Razor

I did an experiment today and I have a new theory that you will not get the best shave by using a str8. I agree that a str8 produces the best shave, but not when you're doing it yourself. If you gave someone else a srt8 shave, it would be the best because you can see what you're doing and can move the razor around better.

I shaved today with a superbly prepared str8 I had just received from Lee, so I eliminated my skill as a factor (it was much better than any str8 I have used except the Feather). After doing the best I could with the str8, I had a great, close shave. But it wasn't entirely clean. I could still feel slight stubble on my jawline, neck and chin. I really worked diligently buffing those areas, but I concluded it wasn't going to happen with the srt8, because the razor itself gets in the way of seeing and it's also too big. Also, I can't find a way of holding the razor that will let me shave forward on the portion of the neck under the jaw.

I decided to follow up with a Merkur slant because it is very aggressive as well as small and maneuverable. I was easily able to see and eliminate all the areas I couldn't get at with the str8, and I ended up with a really clean shave.

My conclusion is that I can get the cleanest shave with a DE, but it won't be the closest. The str8 shave is the closest. So, the best shave would be with a str8 followed by buffing with a small DE or maybe the small Shavette.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I did an experiment today and I have a new theory that you will not get the best shave by using a str8.
<<snip, snip>>
My conclusion is that I can get the cleanest shave with a DE, but it won't be the closest. The str8 shave is the closest. So, the best shave would be with a str8 followed by buffing with a small DE or maybe the small Shavette.

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Shouldn't that, and the title, more accurately read, "I will not get ...."?

Try going twice, I really find the second pass cleans all the stuble left.

Also, that theory in the comercial for the Mah3 is true: The first blade slices the hair and extends (pulls) a little from the skin, second blade slices that extension and pulls a whisker a bit more, and the third blade... and so on. That is why with Mah3 you did better with one pass, than a straight.

I found that the best way for me is shaving with a scyting (was that a word?) motion, in strokes not longer that half an inch, progressing about 1/4 inch at a time. So, each hair is sliced 2-3 times, simulating the Mah3 effect.

This gives me a realy close shave.

Joe, David hit the nail on the head with his subtle statement....
That is why some call it the "art of shaving with a straight razor". It is an art, and only the best shaving artists will get the "optimum" results. Learning so shave cross grain and against the grain while holding the razor in some unusual ways is neither quickly nor easily learned. Other subtle techniques that need to be mastered aren't even invisioned by the beginning str8 shaver. I work to improve my technique all the time, and I haven't even begun to fathom the depths of this art form.

Sorry, Tis really a skill ting. 8) Lynn

I felt the same way for weeks, I decided to think about it for a while; analyzing why my DE shaved so much closer. First, the obvious. My straight shaved just as close on the sides of my face, not as close under my chin where I slide the DE against the grain straight up my neck. The straight got "caught" trying this. So clearly the straight was not as sharp as the DE. I am now proud to say (after weeks and weeks) I have taken my honing skills even further than I imagined and can now slide a straight against the grain with no pulling at all. Amazing, I credit this (and I"m not sure really) to honing at a 90 degree angle. i.e. no longer trying to get the heal or toe to lead. This way I can replicate the angle exactly each pass, and also thinking in terms of sharpening the burr instead of the blade. Results dramatic.

Next, I worked on how I hold the blade and more importantly my face with whatever is the off hand at the time. Focus and patience...results; even more dramatic.

Finally, I started perfecting my scything motion. For me a long scything stroke is impossible, but short circular strokes with half the arc of the circle mimicing a scything motion. Results....OMG close.

With good prep and patience a shave as good as a DE, still the DE is a little quicker. It also knicks more...but with practice comes speed. So we'll see.

It also helps for some reason to buy more razors...don't laugh I'm serious. Not only is it a good excuse to buy more razors but I think there is an experience gained in practice with different weights, sizes, and balances of blades that makes one more of a "craftsman" of the art.

Now just to show this post to my gf.... :-)

Woops, thats me...forgot to log in. Who would've guess a visitor can post? I'm not trying to fool my gf into thinking that was someone else posting and suggesting buying more razors...lol

Thanks for all the input, fellas. I, too, have to clean up with a double edge more than I'd like. It is usually in just a few particular spots though, and those spots are getting fewer and fewer with time and practice.

I think there is a difference between closer and cleaner, though I am not going to try and define either. Why do certain close straight shaved parts of my face stay smooth for the entire day, while my chin has a shadow at 5pm because I used the DE on it? The chin sure "felt" smooth, but obviously not as close as the SE shave. Mystery of life, I guess.

Also, about scything: I too use this technique with some level of success, but I'll tell you, it is not for the faint of heart. With every sideways movement I have alarm bells going off in my head. I'm waiting for the day I do it just wrong and have a big slice.

As my honing and stropping improve, so does my shave. Now even last month when my razors were dull compared to today, they were still sharp. That is, sharp to the finger, sharp to the neck, sharp to the spot under my nose, but NOT necessarily sharp to very short, stiff, hairs. This month, I am honing better and shaving better. It is sometimes hard to believe how sharp a razor can be; even when holding what is a sharp razor to you, there can still be sharper razors. And also, I think some razors can only become so sharp. OK, now I am philosophizing.

Glad to hear we all go through similar stages,
showme

Joe,

With your provocative subject heading this thread should see a lot of activity!

A str8 razor requires considerably more skill to use than a DE, so without the adequate skill a str8 razor will be no match for it, no matter how keen the str8 razor. On the other hand, with sufficient skill applied, if the blade isn't keen, a str8 razor won't be any match for the DE either. However, with both skill and a really keen (hair popp'n) blade, a str8 razor should be a superlative shaver. A DE will also offer an a great shave, but with everything else being the same, I doubt it would provide a _better_ one.

Hal

A nice, sharp straight razor and a little time has yielded a better shave than any product Gillette ("The best a man can get." Yeah, right). has ever produced.

A good straight shave (for me, say two passes, half an hour or so) will last for a day and half. I had to do a quick shave with the Mock3 I keep around for just such emergencies. Lots of stubble around the next morning, whereas a straight would have still been smooth.

With a little patience and practice, your skills will improve. I found it best to not rely on having a "backup" razor, which forced me to make strides in improving my skills.

David, the broad title was intentional. I wanted to attract as many responses as possible and I thought that would be the way.

I know very well it's a skill issue, but I think only "showme1or2" totally appreciated what I'm saying.

I'm not having a problem with shaving close or getting the razor to shave well. I have well developed shaving skills with a DE and with the str8 I use three passes and I shave in every direction- with, across and with the grain.

I used a razor that came directly from Lynn to keep my poor razor stropping out of the picture. The razor shaved great and it shaved closer than the DE. I would not have left my message if I didn't have these basic skills. But when I was finished I could feel stubble in certain spots and I wasn't able to get them without a DE.

I am making a distinction between CLOSE and CLEAN. Clean is getting every last whisker, not necessarily as close as possible.

You experienced guys that responded (David, Lynn and others), do you get a totally clean shave? Or are there spots where you feel stubble?

For me to get a clean shave, I need to be able to shave forward on my neck under the jaw (lower than you get by just pulling up the skin). How do you do that?

I didn't really get much information on that in the responses, just that I'm not doing it right. OK, how do you do:
1. spots you can't see
2. forward on the neck below the jaw.

I'm still prettynew and get some small spots. For me it's just a matter of taking my time and running water and fingers over my face, finding the spots and taking the time to run the razor in EXACTLY the same direction that I felt the spots. A little trick I learned shaving with those electrified contraptions. Otherwise I'm sure you'll end up with better responses in time.

OK. We're in pursuit of the perfect shave. I do have areas that consistently give me grief, mainly the hollows by my adam's apple. Between facial yoga, off-hand shaving, and some really strange ways of stretching the skin I've about got it. I can get one side pretty well, the other is my off hand and still needs work.

Chin is pretty easy so long as you tackle small sections at a time. Areas around the hinge of the jaw can be tricky. I usually stretch the skin upward while shaving down from ear to jaw, then stretch upward and pull forward toward my nose to get that area. Combine that with a stretch downward when doing the neck.

When I have time, I do one pass with the grain, one against the grain, followed by a warm water rinse and a little "shaving by braille" to find the stragglers. I actually prefer to finish my chin wet without lather. Finish with cold water rinse & moisturizer.

Sorry if this offends but using a DE is like using an old mach3. We use a str8 for the shave and also because we can. Any one can shave with a mach3 no skill no thrill. We however pride ourselves on being able to shave with a str8. Its like comparing a paint by numbers picture with a great master. They might both look good but only one took talent and skill. That's my 2 cents anyway. :idea:

In using the definitions of "close" and "clean" that you defined, I would have to say that I have no problem getting a "clean" shave using a str8, if I take the time to do 2 complete passes and pay strict attention around the mouth and moustache areas. When I finish, every single whisker that I am interested in cutting is cut. Now close is another thing all together.
Close is shaving the whisker actually below the skin line. Less than that, and you feel stubble even though the whisker has been cut. The secret of a close shave is an extremely sharp edge, and very good prep. You need to get the beard to soften and expand, so it raises higher than it normally does above the skin line. You then cut the whisker even with the skin line. Nothing does that better than a very sharp straight razor. When the beard cools and dries out, it withdraws below the skin line, giving you that baby smooth feel we are all looking for. If the edge on a str8 is sharp enough, you shouldn't have to shave with a scything motion unless you want to. If you lower the shaving angle below approx 15 or 20 degrees, you risk not having the cutting edge lying flat to the skin, but slightly above it...enough to leave a very short stubble. That is one of the reasons I sometimes don't have as close a shave on my chin as elsewhere...because I lower the angle too much as my beard is super tough there. Unless my str8 is super sharp, I will leave a very short stubble on my neck under my jaw. I could remove that by shaving against the grain there, but for daily use, the stubble is so very short and only in a couple of small areas so it isn't worth bothering with for me. I'm not as good as some of the other members here shaving my neck up towards the jaw, as I do it very seldom. If I don't get the results I am looking for, it is my fault, as I either neglected getting my razor as sharp as it needs to be, or I didn't prep well enough, or I didn't use proper technique for going against the grain or across it. If I don't shave at least as well with a straight razor as with a DE, it isn't the straight razor's fault...it's mine.

well, for me, i use a de and a straight and the straight always give me a closer shave on the face. the stubble stays away longer, and the next morning, it is less apparant with a straight then with the DE. however, i can not fully get close with a straight on my neck. i use 4 passes, one with and one against the grain and then one crossways each way on the cheek. on the neck, i try to go crossways as much as possible, from the chin to the ear, each side. i have to touch up with the DE.

now, i eliminate the sight of hair on my neck, but i still feel a little stubble. the most is under my fat pad under my chin where my goatee ends. then its the hollows.

can someone explain the scything motion better. i tore a flap when i tried it with the feather straight

sam

Joe-
A razor still has to be stropped, even if it's perfectly honed. I get a perfect shave with a straight every time, two passes in 12 minutes. It takes skill. Chances are, if you're not comfortable with honing and stropping your shaving skill isn't where it needs to be either.

Drew

Sam, the scything motion is a little bit tricky in the fact that you have to move the razor primarily north/south (away from the spine) at the same time that you are tilting the razor slightly, usually heel leading, with only a very small amount of east/west (scything) movement. To much east/west and you have sliced yourself. Too much pressure and you have once again sliced yourself. If you hold the razor at an angle (such as with heel leading) while going north/south, you automatically have a natural scything motion without any east/west movement at all. This is the safest approach to using a scything action, but you can still slice yourself this way as well with improper angle or too much pressure or failing to go directly north/south and instead move the razor in the dirction that your tang is pointing. Hope this makes sense to you.

Bob

so far, bob, that is the best description of how to do it. i have the slicing part down, lol

sam

Let me jump on this bandwagon too. I do get my best and closest shave from a str8. No doubt about it. I will admit it is even better from my barber but he has been shaving people for over 40 years I have only been using a str8 for 6 months.