ATG a No-Go For My Neck

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05-28-2009, 12:59 AM
Ryan82

ATG a No-Go For My Neck

I've always had problems with neck irritation, no matter what method of shaving I use. And it's always in the same spot, bottom of my whiskers on either side of my adams apple where they grow straight up. I found over the last year that a WTG pass causes no irritation but does not provide a very close shave in that area. The truth is that probably no one notices but me but I still had to wonder if it could be done.

I had a shave on Sunday and it went great, BBS and I even tried AGT on the bottom of my neck again. I did a WTG pass as usual (S to N for me) relathered and did N to S on ONE SIDE ONLY (it was my weekend experiment). It felt ok and was nice and smooth on one side at least. And then things went bad from there. The next morning things didn't look too bad, but irritation doesn't start for me until my whiskers are getting very pronounced again. I'm sure you all can guess what happened next - I ended up with one side of my neck beet read (red painful bumps) and the other side was ok! And that was with good prep, sharp razor, you name it.

So basically I haven't shaved for 3 days now to let my neck heal. It wasn't the worst neck irritation I've ever had, but I still required some healing time to not make it worse. I've come to the conclusion that ATG is a no-go at least for me as my neck just can't hack it. I think I'll save the pain and misery of the ultimate close shave for special occasions like weddings, anniversaries etc.

There's got to be others out there in a similar predicament?
05-28-2009, 02:11 AM
zib

Hey Ryan, Were you using the new Bismarck by chance? What's your prep like?
I don't know if you use any pre shaves, but there are some good ones out there, I like CF and Proraso, both are good. I also use a Hot Towel before I lather, and again once I get the lather on my face. The only time I get irritated now is if my angle is too steep on the blade. You can try reducing the angle of the blade when you get to that area.
If your using Diamond Paste, Stop. That can further irritate. Instead of soap, use cream, it offers more protection. Get some Crox to give your blade the final polish on, it'll help. For post shave, after you rinse, use alum and then some Witch Hazel, followed by a good after shave balm.

Also, I just bought this Nivea face wash, it's exfoliating, has those tiny scrubbie things in it, Good stuff, You wash your face with it before you shave, it's good stuff, so are their after shave balms, They have Extreme comfort after shave balm, it'll at least put out the fire.....Anyway, it'll be lots of trial and error until you find what combo works best. Don't hesitate to contact me....
05-28-2009, 06:35 AM
Logistics

I have the same problem going ATG on my neck.
The left side of my adams apple I have an area that has a small swirl of hair which shaves fine WTG but ATG causes irritation like no other. Regardless of which razor I choose; Dovo Micarta 5/8, Feather AC RG (new blade), DE with a new Feather blade, Mach3 (new blade), Fusion (new blade) I get a patch of irritation. If I dare try ATG with a straight I get tons of small bumps that begin to bleed very tiny drops that don't require a syptic stick for coagulation. If it doesn't bleed ever so slightly then I tend to get irritation.

The worst case I've ever had, much like what you mentioned, is when I had a few beers one night and came up with a great idea to shave while half if not already fully tanked. I used my Feather, too. I walked out of the bathroom in near need of an ambulance. Aftershave was the most painful thing I did. The next day while nursing my hangover I nice and large, red puffy bumps and scrathes on my neck from trying to go ATG and worse in the area to the left of my adams apple.
It took me about 4 days to recover.

In case some of you are interested, my prep is good.
It's just the one spot to the left of the adams apple going ATG that gets irritation regardless of the razor or sharpness or prep. When I use the straights going ATG I allow the spine to glide on the skin and I get irritation even with little to no pressure. When I use a straight I tend to go ATG on the neck with a DE now.
Since SRP likes accronyms I will make one up.
SRATGNI = Straight Razor Against The Grain Neck Irritation
05-28-2009, 01:38 PM
fccexpert

It's a no-no for my entire face, it is also totally unecessary.
05-28-2009, 08:57 PM
VeeDubb65

To do a "true" ATG pass on my neck, I would need to use a very short blade with a very big smile.

One thing I have found useful on my neck, PLEASE BE SUPER CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS, is to move the blade at something like a 45 degree angle. Now, I'm not talking about the angle of the blade to your neck, but I mean that the toe would be leading by 45 degrees. It gives the blade a narrower path, and work like a guillotine. The french could never have chopped all those heads off if the blade of the guillotine came straight down, but it didn't. It was an angled blade so that it sliced and cut at the same time.
05-28-2009, 09:33 PM
Disburden

Quote:

Originally Posted by fccexpert

It's a no-no for my entire face, it is also totally unecessary.

I wouldn't get anything near a close shave without the ATG pass. My facial hair is as thick as copper wiring and I've been shaving since thirteen. Some guys, it's a must.
05-28-2009, 09:35 PM
Disburden

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan82

I've always had problems with neck irritation, no matter what method of shaving I use. And it's always in the same spot, bottom of my whiskers on either side of my adams apple where they grow straight up. I found over the last year that a WTG pass causes no irritation but does not provide a very close shave in that area. The truth is that probably no one notices but me but I still had to wonder if it could be done.

I had a shave on Sunday and it went great, BBS and I even tried AGT on the bottom of my neck again. I did a WTG pass as usual (S to N for me) relathered and did N to S on ONE SIDE ONLY (it was my weekend experiment). It felt ok and was nice and smooth on one side at least. And then things went bad from there. The next morning things didn't look too bad, but irritation doesn't start for me until my whiskers are getting very pronounced again. I'm sure you all can guess what happened next - I ended up with one side of my neck beet read (red painful bumps) and the other side was ok! And that was with good prep, sharp razor, you name it.

So basically I haven't shaved for 3 days now to let my neck heal. It wasn't the worst neck irritation I've ever had, but I still required some healing time to not make it worse. I've come to the conclusion that ATG is a no-go at least for me as my neck just can't hack it. I think I'll save the pain and misery of the ultimate close shave for special occasions like weddings, anniversaries etc.

There's got to be others out there in a similar predicament?

Do you apply a very hot towel to your face before you shave? I found that using this method for a preshave makes the ATG pass on my neck a totally easy going experience, with little pain or irritation. Before then the ATG pass on my neck wasn't so comfortable. I would try that out. Actually, I would probably never shave without the hot towel treatment first, it's truly a wonderful thing for me. The difference in the shave is incredible. Also try using the blade at a totally flat angle on your face with you go ATG.
05-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Lynn

If the hair is growing up on the side of the adam's apple, have you tried really stretching the skin toward the side of the neck away from the adam's apple and then shaved it? Same on the other side. This really should work.

Lynn
05-28-2009, 09:40 PM
Disburden

Very good advice! I was going to mention that also in an edit of my post. Stretching to the side should be key.
05-28-2009, 11:48 PM
Ryan82

Thanks for the replies. I'll try to answer some of your questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zib

Hey Ryan, Were you using the new Bismarck by chance? What's your prep like?
I don't know if you use any pre shaves, but there are some good ones out there, I like CF and Proraso, both are good. I also use a Hot Towel before I lather, and again once I get the lather on my face. The only time I get irritated now is if my angle is too steep on the blade. You can try reducing the angle of the blade when you get to that area.
If your using Diamond Paste, Stop. That can further irritate. Instead of soap, use cream, it offers more protection. Get some Crox to give your blade the final polish on, it'll help. For post shave, after you rinse, use alum and then some Witch Hazel, followed by a good after shave balm.

Also, I just bought this Nivea face wash, it's exfoliating, has those tiny scrubbie things in it, Good stuff, You wash your face with it before you shave, it's good stuff, so are their after shave balms, They have Extreme comfort after shave balm, it'll at least put out the fire.....Anyway, it'll be lots of trial and error until you find what combo works best. Don't hesitate to contact me....

I did indeed use my Bismarck for that last shave, but it's happened with my other razors too. My prep is sound and doesn't cause ANY irritation 99% of the time. I shower and then use Proraso pre shave before lathering. I never let my lather run dry either. For ATG in other areas I do reduce the angle (almost flat) and it seems to do the trick. I follow up with a cold water rinse, sometimes a bit of skin protector (Body Shop maca root) before my AS splash. Nivea does make a good product IMO, but I switch it up fairly regularly.

One thing that you mentioned was the diamond paste; I believe Lynn uses it as a final polish. Maybe my skin doesn't like it. I do have some chrome ox, which my skin seems fine with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disburden

Do you apply a very hot towel to your face before you shave? I found that using this method for a preshave makes the ATG pass on my neck a totally easy going experience, with little pain or irritation. Before then the ATG pass on my neck wasn't so comfortable. I would try that out. Actually, I would probably never shave without the hot towel treatment first, it's truly a wonderful thing for me. The difference in the shave is incredible. Also try using the blade at a totally flat angle on your face with you go ATG.

No, I don't bother with a hot towel, but will try it out.

It's funny, I shave ATG from the bottom of my neck straight up to my chin every shave with no ill effects. It's only on the sides at the bottom that gets irritation if I try.
05-28-2009, 11:59 PM
Ryan82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logistics

Since SRP likes accronyms I will make one up.
SRATGNI = Straight Razor Against The Grain Neck Irritation

:roflmao Now that's funny. If any mods are reading please put this with the rest on the acronyms in the stickies section!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

If the hair is growing up on the side of the adam's apple, have you tried really stretching the skin toward the side of the neck away from the adam's apple and then shaved it? Same on the other side. This really should work.

Lynn

Thanks Lynn. Some good advice here, I'll have to try these tricks out, but not too soon. I already look like a bum from not shaving for 4 days now and I don't to look like one again for the next 4 days following my upcoming shave :)

Honestly though I think the skin stretching might have been a factor in my irritation. I think my whiskers just got cut too close, probably below the skin. Some of the worst irritation I've ever had was from barbers shaving my neck ATG. Hopefully the above advice will help out, but I am a believer that ATG is just not for every shaver out there.
05-29-2009, 03:17 AM
The0ctopus

Quote:

Originally Posted by fccexpert

It's a no-no for my entire face, it is also totally unecessary.

+1 for me, atleast at this point.
i dont need daily shaves, my skin tolerates with the grain ok, but ATG, pff. might as well burn the hairoff with a hot iron, same goes for any type of razor.
05-29-2009, 09:46 AM
gregs656

Quote:

Originally Posted by fccexpert

It's a no-no for my entire face, it is also totally unecessary.

For you maybe.

Personally, I need to keep the razor FLAT. Also, short strokes are the order of the day here.

If you simply can't do it, then I might suggest you raise your WTG angle - I think shaving the neck is quite deceptive and you end up with a shallower angle than you think. Of course, I could be totally off base here, but that's the impression I get.
05-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Disburden

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregs656

For you maybe.

Personally, I need to keep the razor FLAT. Also, short strokes are the order of the day here.

If you simply can't do it, then I might suggest you raise your WTG angle - I think shaving the neck is quite deceptive and you end up with a shallower angle than you think. Of course, I could be totally off base here, but that's the impression I get.

+1 on this, a totally flat angle ATG should help cut down on irritation also.

I wish I only needed to shave every few days, you guys are lucky. I look like Homer Simpson by 2PM even if I had a BBS shave at 8AM. :ziplip:
05-29-2009, 03:40 PM
Oglethorpe

Not sure if this will help, but I find that I am ONLY able to get an ATG pass (albeit with short, light, gentle strokes) with my Robert Klass 11/16 Full Hollow. For some reason, the full hollow blade cuts through with less irritation. I also have a W&B (maybe /4 Hollow) and a Red Injun 101 which is pretty close if not full hollow -- it's just that the Klaas does a better job.

That's not to say that I don't wind up with some weepers at the end, but the result is a smooth-all-around BBS shave that is good to go after a swipe with the alum and a alcohol-based AS.

Hope this helps...
05-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Deckard

I used to have a problem but everything thats been mentioned is sound advice and works for me, I think different skin/hair types is a factor and requires some experimentation.
To many prep steps over egg the pudding for my skin, I've even got slight irritation just going through the steps with no shave???
I don't understand the logic of exfoliation as the shave does this anyway and I'd expect the dead skin cells to offer some protection?

Trumpers skin food is miracle stuff for my skin and sometimes an extra thick coating may helps if I think I've overdone things.

Regards
05-31-2009, 12:43 PM
m0isty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard

I used to have a problem but everything thats been mentioned is sound advice and works for me, I think different skin/hair types is a factor and requires some experimentation.
To many prep steps over egg the pudding for my skin, I've even got slight irritation just going through the steps with no shave???
I don't understand the logic of exfoliation as the shave does this anyway and I'd expect the dead skin cells to offer some protection?

Trumpers skin food is miracle stuff for my skin and sometimes an extra thick coating may helps if I think I've overdone things.

Regards

I'm exactly the same, I too have egg custard for skin. Piano wire for chin whiskers too! I focused too much on the shave prep and my skin turned to mush whilst the whiskers just laughed at my feeble attempts to weaken them! I have found that a few quick splashes of HOT water followed by a damn good lathering was much better. I think it takes the whiskers by surprise!:D

As for exfoliation, I do that with a carbon steel blade like a real man!:medvl:
05-31-2009, 05:43 PM
Ryan82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard

Trumpers skin food is miracle stuff for my skin and sometimes an extra thick coating may helps if I think I've overdone things.

Regards

I've been meaning to pick up some Skin Food as I've heard a lot about it. I know many members swear by it - maybe it will make a difference. I had a hell of a time finding it but I noticed that Rasage Poulin (here in Canada, Calgary to be exact) carries the Skin Food line at a good price.
05-31-2009, 08:10 PM
leadduck

Quote:

Originally Posted by zib

I also use a Hot Towel before I lather, and again once I get the lather on my face. The only time I get irritated now is if my angle is too steep on the blade....

That's interesting. I get major irritation when I use a towel that's too hot. And by the way, do you lather up again after the second towel treatment or shave with the lather washed off?
06-07-2009, 10:00 AM
slipangle

I get this same issue. I'm only on my second shave so far, but the rest of my face is easy to shave and comes out smooth.

Just to the left and right of my Adam's apple, my hair grows directly toward my earlobes. WTG just doesn't cut it. XTG and ATG in that area are more or less impossible for me to pull off without feeling like I'm about to chop an artery.

I've got a pair of 4-5/8 full length near full hollow square points.

I get frustrated and keep trying, but the evil bumps and redness show up as a result.

Thanks for the sideways skin stretching idea Lynn, I'll give it a go in a couple days.

Maybe I should be on the lookout for a 2-3/8 round point stubby wedge...RAD is starting to ramp up.....
06-07-2009, 10:28 AM
gregs656

Quote:

Originally Posted by slipangle

Just to the left and right of my Adam's apple, my hair grows directly toward my earlobes. WTG just doesn't cut it. XTG and ATG in that area are more or less impossible for me to pull off without feeling like I'm about to chop an artery.

A N-S scything pass might do it. N-S should be easy in that area with a round point, the lateral movement should help and reduce the risk of irritation.
06-08-2009, 10:24 AM
slipangle

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregs656

A N-S scything pass might do it. N-S should be easy in that area with a round point, the lateral movement should help and reduce the risk of irritation.

I actually have a round point on the way (thanks gugi).

I'm hesitant to try it with my square points, as I'm a new shaver. Perhaps the shave-after-next will be with a round, so I'll get a chance to try that technique.

The hard thing about my neck is that I need to tilt up the chin to stretch the skin properly. As a consequence, I get tendons and muscles sticking out, which makes it hard to get proper contact.

I guess I'll figure it out eventually. Thanks for the advice.
06-11-2009, 06:19 AM
BrentonC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan82

.... I've come to the conclusion that ATG is a no-go at least for me as my neck just can't hack it. ...

Can't hack it. Heh heh, heh heh, good one. Sounds like your neck really got quite the hacking.

Gotta hate trial-and-error learning sometimes, hey?
06-24-2009, 02:38 PM
charlie762

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

One thing I have found useful on my neck, PLEASE BE SUPER CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS, is to move the blade at something like a 45 degree angle. Now, I'm not talking about the angle of the blade to your neck, but I mean that the toe would be leading by 45 degrees. It gives the blade a narrower path, and work like a guillotine.

I have been using my DE merkur slant bar for a while and I have discovered that keeping the blade parallel to the floor but moving the blade diagonally down or up gives me the smoothest shave.That and a shave cream/soap combo.I don't know if my method would be a good idea with a straight razor though?I used to get irritation on my neck every time and still not get a smooth shave but I've found that a thick lather and the diagonal movement does the trick every time and no irritation.I'm afraid I still cannot get anywhere near as good a shave with a straight as I can with a DE.:banghead:
06-24-2009, 04:26 PM
BrentonC

One of the you tube shaving videos discussed "advanced" techiques that included this type of technique, along with the "J stroke" (not for canoeists), and the "rub" technique, which I find useful on the chin where the hair is most dense and hard to get BBS.
06-24-2009, 04:31 PM
hoglahoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

To do a "true" ATG pass on my neck, I would need to use a very short blade with a very big smile.

The vintage sheffield MAB razor works for this. It's a 2" long 4/8 at the toe and 5/8 at the heel blade with a slight smile that gets in those tougher spots. It's still tough to do a true against the grain, but it provides for a much truer approach against it than most other straight razors
02-11-2010, 01:39 AM
Ryan82

Well, It's Still a No-Go

It's been a while since I've read this old thread of mine and I thought I'd dig it out of the archives. And for a good reason too.

Earlier this week I tempted fate with my neck again. I have tons more experience since the original post (and I was getting great shaves back then too BTW) and I figured what the hell. I just received my new razor, which is top shelf, honed by Lynn so I know it has a decent edge, the usual prep with premium soap, the works. I was getting a great shave from a sharp razor, so I went ATG on one side of my neck (again) just to see what would happen. The result.....

A great shave but with irritation on my neck, on the one side of course. Angle was shallow, as in almost flat, pressure was almost non-existant, and although the blade cut smoothly, and painlessly, irritation was still the result.

Let that be a lesson for you boys and girls. Some peoples' skin just can't take it, no matter what other members may say. Shoot for comfort and be happy with that DFS that you got. And if it looks good just remember that that only you will know it's not BBS all over.....
02-11-2010, 01:46 PM
Stubear

I cant do an ATG pass at all, it just ruins my face. Some peoples skin is just not up to it, so dont keep going at it hoping it will come right. Down that road lies pain and bloodshed..!

I get a BBS shave with a mixture of WTG and XTG passes, combined with a prep that uses hot towels and some well thought out skin stretching.

You dont need the ATG pass to get BBS, and a master barber at Trumpers actually told me never to do the ATG pass as it damages the skin. Certainly he did not do one when he shaved me, and its still probably the best shave I've ever had..!
02-11-2010, 01:48 PM
Oglethorpe

I stand corrected, guys. Perhaps it's not for everybody.

But, ATG doesn't ruin my face :)
02-12-2010, 07:29 AM
Sigurd Aaset

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan82

It's been a while since I've read this old thread of mine and I thought I'd dig it out of the archives. And for a good reason too.

Earlier this week I tempted fate with my neck again. I have tons more experience since the original post (and I was getting great shaves back then too BTW) and I figured what the hell. I just received my new razor, which is top shelf, honed by Lynn so I know it has a decent edge, the usual prep with premium soap, the works. I was getting a great shave from a sharp razor, so I went ATG on one side of my neck (again) just to see what would happen. The result.....

A great shave but with irritation on my neck, on the one side of course. Angle was shallow, as in almost flat, pressure was almost non-existant, and although the blade cut smoothly, and painlessly, irritation was still the result.

Let that be a lesson for you boys and girls. Some peoples' skin just can't take it, no matter what other members may say. Shoot for comfort and be happy with that DFS that you got. And if it looks good just remember that that only you will know it's not BBS all over.....

This is a great thread, guys! The neck is a problem area for me too.

Thanks you for sharing your experience, Ryan. I'll keep trying to perfect my technique to get a BBS shave on my neck, but there might come a time when you have to leave well enough alone and realise that BBS on the neck is not for everyone. When I get BBS on the neck with my DE, it always comes with a certain amount of irritation. I will see if this is something a can correct with my straight.
02-12-2010, 10:31 AM
vespar72

Some great advice..
the thing that i remember that made everything click for ATG shaves was by doing longer strokes and increasing the angle of the razor.
i found that a flat angle didn't cut anything and it made it worse for irritation and weepers ( that's for me of course )
i remember watching a couple of videos ( in particular the early video of Lynn ).

I stopped the short strokes as well because i found that by starting and stopping the stroke in the middle of a S-N line meant that i had to restart the stroke many times for one ATG stroke there by increasing the chances of nicks along the way so i just did one smooth stroke starting at the bottom and finishing up by the chin.
Because by lifting and placing the razor time and time again along the stroke creates nicks and cuts.

well, that was me anyway but that vid of Lynn's was really good for that ATG stroke.