Leading With the Point

Gentlemen,

What are your thoughts on leading with the point? I would love to hear thoughts on this as well from my shave guru Lynn.

Some time ago a friend and I had a conversation on the topic. We both agreed that leading with the point made sense. We both use the technique. I have read other opinions on it as well, especially one from Dr. Moss.

Obviously the technique has its dangers, too: one can easily lose focus and shave horizontally, which is like stepping on a landmine.

What brought this topic to my mind is seeing a video on this forum of a barber using the technique. Aha, I thought to myself.

Thanks.

Regards,

Obie

You are talking about scything, sliding and guillotine passes which are covered in the wiki. I use them and their effect is basically to make the blade feel sharper and smoother than it would if you moved the blade 90° to the edge.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

You are talking about scything, sliding and guillotine passes which are covered in the wiki. I use them and their effect is basically to make the blade feel sharper and smoother than it would if you moved the blade 90° to the edge.

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Ditto - a closer and smoother shave. I find it easier to lead with the heel but also lead with the toe at times.

This what you are talking about is referred to as the cutting angle and in my experience because it cuts easier it is actually safer than a straight push. This is the proper way to shave with a straight razor.

X

I use lead, too. Since I shave with only my dominant hand; I lead with toe or heel, interchangeably. Usually only 10 to 20 degrees. The 30 degree lead shown in the barber manual is a bit too much for me.

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments and for the information. It is indeed a pleasure to continue learning from you.

I have been shaving straight for a while, but I am hungry for all the information I can get in this noble art. That's one more nugget of pleasure in shaving with a straight: you never stop learning.

Regards,

Obie

I have in the past used both toe leading and heel leading shaving strokes.

But I discovered that should the blade ever snag on a hair, the toe leading is a far safer maneuver. One does not want to slice into one's own face! Ideally that never happens that a blade snag the beard, but ideally we never nick ourselves either :)

So now I use toe leading shaving strokes, though I still perform a nearly perpendicular stroke against the hair directly under my nose when shaving with the grain

Use both toe and heal leads as well. Whatever gets the best results.

Pabster

Obie One,

I have to say that I rarely lead with the point......I is skeeeered

:rofl2:

Lynn

Oh, oh. I know I do an oblique too, but I'll be darned if I can tell you whether it's a tip or heel first. Maybe it's one or the other (which would be both, but not at the same time). I ain't askeeeerd, but I am confuuuused.:confused:

Some things never change... :rofl2:

Ah, Lynn, my shave guru.

Listen, the whole process of shaving with a straight razor scares me. Then how peculiar, and ironic, that the time spent on my daily shave is one of the best of my day.

Fear, irony and pleasure combined make a complex potion.

Regards,

Obie

I find leading with the point and especially moving the blade at something of an angled stroke (I don't know if I'm describing that clearly) work very well and make the cutting smoother. It took me a couple of years to figure out the angled stroke. On a couple of occasions, I've slid a little and nicked myself, but if you're careful it'll be ok.
Jordan

I use both toe and heel.

Lewis

Well leading with the toe seems very natural for the pro guy in the video. However, he is shaving a customer. I wonder what he does when he shaves himself.

I've tried toe and heel leading, but now I'm more into sole and ankle.

Problem is that both are only good for a foot. (Get it?? 12 inches? A foot? Ha, ha?)

Scything motion only for me. Of course if you look at it in stop action, this would mean that I start leading with the heal and end leading with the point.

After watching that video I tried the point leading and it really solvedsome problems I was having especially on the wild wire on the neck area. I don't know where I pickedup the misconception that the shaving stroke should follow the same angle as the honing. Much better now. I have tamed my neck with more options and i did it with a full hollow to boot!!!:beer2:
Look no wedge!!
Mike

I use a heal leading stroke quite a bit. It really feels very natural. But I just can't get my mind around how to use a point leading stroke. I keep imagining the edge biting through many layers of skin.

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Originally Posted by ndw76

I use a heal leading stroke quite a bit. It really feels very natural. But I just can't get my mind around how to use a point leading stroke. I keep imagining the edge biting through many layers of skin.

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A couple of things to consider if you have not already. If you blunt the point it would be safer in all styles if shaving. On all of my square points i run the point over a carberundum stone(smooth side of a grinding wheel dresser) and round of the point. Just a few passes, the blade looks essetially the same. I use a rocking motion so as not to have the point look like / but to look like ). It is almost impossible under any stroke to get the dreaded nick from the points that receive this treatment.
Another consideration is that the edge IMHO should have a slight smile at the very least. Frowns and even perfectly straight edges are much more dangerous if you are using advanced technique(skewed vs 90 deg plowing)
I recently added this stroke to my arsenal and I can't begin to tell you how much better my shave was.
Mike

I too now dread the spike point going forward. I do the scything motion sometimes, and probably heel lead if I think about it, I think I toe lead on my upper lip.

interestingly, I use the first 30% of my razor a lot, the rest less, just because I don't have a lot of flats where I can lay the whole blade on the skin. I was noticing that this morning.

Red

I'll also chime in. I mostly use heel leading strokes. Leading with the point scares me as well. That is what lead to my face looking like a cat used it as a scratching post.:(

Also, the "Buffing", with the heel, described in the Wiki works quite well for any place that might require point leading (atleast that's what works for me.)

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Originally Posted by Big Red

I too now dread the spike point going forward. I do the scything motion sometimes, and probably heel lead if I think about it, I think I toe lead on my upper lip.

interestingly, I use the first 30% of my razor a lot, the rest less, just because I don't have a lot of flats where I can lay the whole blade on the skin. I was noticing that this morning.

Red

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I've often wondered if that justifies the X-pattern honing (at least on a large stone). We probably all use the first 3rd of the blade more, so it probably dulls faster, no? :hmmm::OT

Jordan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jnich67

I've often wondered if that justifies the X-pattern honing (at least on a large stone). We probably all use the first 3rd of the blade more, so it probably dulls faster, no? :hmmm::OT

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I suppose you could check rather easily during your next shave which part of the razor is sharpest

Hmmm,

Now that I think about it I do lead with the heal and the toe depending on what hand I am using....

Very interesting, I never realised what I was doing? I am still learning without a doubt.

OK, I tried leading with the toe this morning. It seemed to go well at first. Then oops. Bad cut. No more experimenting with that for me. (Unless I'm shaving a manequin :) )

QUOTE
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Originally Posted by Big Red http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...s/viewpost.gif
I too now dread the spike point going forward. I do the scything motion sometimes, and probably heel lead if I think about it, I think I toe lead on my upper lip.
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If you are getting nicked or outright cut from your spikepoint or squarepoint, here's a tip to eliminate that problem. The old time barbers would often drag that point along the side of one of their hones to remove the actual point, making it safer to use on their customers.

I was given two hones by my barber in the 1960's and the coarse hone had two very noticeable linear gouges along the side of the stone where the barber dragged the point to remove it.

I would recommend removing the point before you hone the edge for obvious reasons...... JERRY

Also if your getting nicked with the toe lead, remember it should be higher than the heel as you make the pass. I always round of points and have no problems with this pass. Again, the importance of a good smile on the blade IMHO can not be overstated. Th only time I ever found trouble with any methods have been with straight blades. I would imagine a frowning blade with scything strokes either way would require hospitol treatment afterwards.
Mike