Daily Shaving a thick beard - I can't seem to get it to work.

[Incurve]

I must be crazy, or ridiculously unlucky, cause I can't seem to get this to work.

I have a thick-thick-THICK curly beard that just won't give in. I shave once a week, because my skin is SUPER sensitive - and because I have to wait for the irritation to go down; or else it will only be irritated more..

Over the last few months I have used a masterfully sharpened Uthe hair-splitting razor, shavette, and a double-edge feather razor with next to no pressure, at 30 degrees, proper prep, delicate stropping (when using the straight razor), and continual moisturizing. I've even avoided fatty foods, and have been dilligent about cleaning my face more often.

I've gotten a decent shave maybe 1 or 2 times out of 20. That's it.

I keep hearing it's best for your beard if you go over it daily, so I gave it a go tonight (I last shaved 2 days ago with the DE), and using the exact same light technique that got me a decent shave, it ripped my face up completely.

Miserable shave, tons of blood, tons of stubble left over, and tons of red blotchy irritation. I applied next to no pressure, and just about no hair came off, only blood.

I've spoken to my doctor and pharmacist and am taking in-grown hair skin products as they have recommended.

After months of research, dozens of hours reading up on this site about technique and the do's and don'ts, and sure-fire dedication... still no results.

What's next?

[RichZ]

Here is what I would do if I were you. Find a barber in your area that does str8 razor shaves. This will take a few items out of the equation. He should prep you right, have a sharp enough razor and the right technique. if he can't give you a great shave I think you may be forced to grow a beard.

[AFDavis11]

I would go with an electric and a dermatologist. Once you start mixing in precription medications you throw out any chance of a "common" Internet proscribed remedy. We simply can not provide you with good advice, from this distance, once you start adding prescription medications to your blood or skin or have dramatically atypical conditions. If you have tried wet shaving with all those instruments and have yet to have any success a straight razor forum is probably the wrong place for you. I can tell you that it is remotely possible, but possible non-the-less, to hone a straight razor to a point that it is NOT very sharp but with good prep and technique will remove hair. All of your previous choices may have been overhoned OR too sharp for your skin. Personally I think shaving once a week is asking too much of anything but without seeing your face I'm stuck.

If it were me (AND ITS NOT) I would shave once a day with a beard trimmer and shave once a week with a straight razor that wasn't honed very sharply at first, you can get it past the irritation stage and into the nice shaving area where it takes 6 passes or so to remove the hair (completed all at once, not lathering up each time) and if that causes problems I'd just use the beard trimmer and keep the Don Johnson look. It may simply be that a sharp razor doesn't work for you, but you need to see a dermatologist. If you have "pocketed" skin for example, only an electric would make sense in the long run. I am assuming ofcourse that you have tried shaving once a day with all those options as opposed to once a week, but after a dermatogist has seen you maybe we can help you again. This is only my opinion ofcourse. I'd wait for others to weigh in but I think you've got a pretty serious issue here. And if your taking prescription medications I would feel uncomfortable with any 'advice'.

Ofcourse logic and determination would force me to ask this question.

What did you do during the 2 shaves you got that were good?

You also did not describe what the diagnosis was...did the doctor say your problem was related to the ingrown hairs?

[Joe Lerch]

I can give you input on this from the point of view of someone with supersensitive skin. In fact, I'm using medication (a cream) that my doctor gave on a daily basis. I have rosacea and any irritation can cause a flare up. If I wasn't doing what I do, I wouldn't be able to shave two days in a row with a str8.


The key for me was not being aggressive with a thick stand of whiskers. Thaat is, don't try to shave it down to skin in the early passes. Don't even think about it. The idea is to take a number of passes with or across the grain that just reduce the beard. The goal is to get down to a light stubble.

As long as you use a light touch, you should not get irritation if you don't go down to skin.

When you finally get to that fine stubble, you can go to skin on the next pass. It can be directly against the grain or on an angle against the grain, depending on what you can tolerate. Use a very light touch and the flattest blade angle that will work. For added comfort, you can add shaving oil before this pass. Now gently with continuous, flowing strokesdo the third pass.

You should nor have irritation, but you may still have some stubble in a few spots. Touch up one at a time. Put a little water on it with your hand and gently try to remove the stubble from each direction, using against the grain last. It may help to stretch locally, right at the spot, by applying the thumb and index fingers on opposite sides of the spot and stretching it flat along the grain. At that point it should be easy to cut gently against the grain.

Try this gradual approach. It should help with the irritation. It did with my sensitive skin.

[thebigspendur]

I may sound kind of hardnosed here but whenever I hear about someone who says they just can't use a straight or obtain success I wonder about what happened a hundred or so years ago when that's all that was available. I know alot of people wore beards then but millions of all skin types and beard types used them with success.

I have always been of the opinion that experience and technique is what translates to success in straight shaving. Certainly its possible that your the one in a million or so that have a real unusual skin problem that throws a monkey wrench into the equation.

I would either try and find someone experienced in straight shaving who could watch you shave and see if your doing something wrong or as has been suggested get a professional straight shave and see what happens. Good Luck.

[randydance062449]

After reading the posts from the others I have to agree with the idea that the meds and your particular skin condition mayl not allow you to do this. Why not go to another dermatoligist and get a second opinion?
It is interesting that you did have two good shaves. What changed?

[Incurve]

Thanks guys for all of your patience, and willingness to respond to such a seemingly ‘dead-end’ topic.

I’m pretty speechless myself as to what could be the problem here, aside from the traits I’ve inherited.

What can I say? My mom’s ‘cooter’ is Jewish, so that makes me Jewish – and I got me a thick curly Jewish beard! My hair pretty much openly attacks me and grows right back into my face as soon as it painfully pops itself out of my skin.

The heat, yanking, and constant circular motion of electric razors irritate my skin, procure ingrown hairs, and produce miserable shaves.

Mach3 have the ability to get down to the surface, with mediocre quality, and produce less irritation than an electric; but definitely not perfect. And they make the in-grown hairs even worse.

The 1-2 times that straight shaving DID work for me, was when I hadn’t shaved for nearly 7-9 days. If I grow half a beard, to the point where the facial hair is long enough not to directly grow back into the skin, and long enough for my skin to lose it’s irritation… then an Uthe sharpened straight razor at 25 degrees, tugs (not smoothly slices) at the hair and produces a decent shave. A Dovo Shavette, as Lynn called it one time… certainly has the sharpness to it and slices those hairs right off, but is a very unforgiving shave, and cuts the hell out of my face, MUCH more than a straight razor. The DE has probably been the best for me, but after last night I just don’t know anymore.

So to top off extremely curly hair, extremely sensitive skin, and tons of in-grown hairs… I also have very DRY skin. So I’ve been moisturizing every morning and night. My pharmacist also got me using a product called Tendskin (www.tendskin.com) which is supposed to help alleviate razor bumps and in-grown hairs. I’ve heard good things from other people, but with me it’s been a total dud.

In 3 to 4 days my face will be back to its normal shade, won’t look irritated… and upon closer inspection will have dozens of in-grown hairs and bumps. Even with the hair long, my skin looks irritated from all the previous torture it’s gone through under those scraping razors. I can then meticulously wash my face every night and tweez the hairs UP (not yank them out) for about an hour before shaving in an effort to make the shaving process go more smoothly.

Be it electric, mach3, straight razor, or DE… I just CANNOT shave daily. After one shave, my skin needs healing time, and that’s all I can say. I’ve never been able to shave today and once again tomorrow. And whenever I’ve tried, I get slapped in the face just like I did last night.

There are two kinds of stubble with me. Shaved stubble (during the shave - hair was once long, has been shaved down, and is now stubble), and natural stubble (after the shave – hair is growing back). The difference between these stubbles is that the natural stubble can be felt and seen, yet cannot be reached with a razor. It’s STILL under my skin! I could rub the sharpest razor over it (like I’ve done so many times), and nothing will happen except a bunch of irritation. The only way I’ve been able to shave, whether it’s a Bic disposable, or a straight razor, is when the whiskers are long, and the razors has something to catch on to on the surface. If I shave the day after a previous shave, the razor will merely drag on my skin and in-grown razor bumps rather than the hair itself. I hope this makes sense.

What is the importance of shaving daily? What does it do to the beard? Why is it better?

Bigspendur – I’m with you. And I wish I had a better explanation for all of you. I don’t know how they did it back then… but the fact that they DID (or at least some did) is just about the only thing that keeps me going. The straight razor is a magnificent tool, and I just don’t understand why it wouldn’t work on me – even through all the irritation issues.

The thing with barbers these days is that they don’t give straight razor shaves. They give disposable Fromm shaves. I’d love to find one that could use a straight razor, but no one will touch the stuff.

Once again, it’s time to go back to the drawing board…

[superfly]

I too, once had a not so nice shaving experience. That changed as soon as I changed my view on the wet shaving. That happened graduately, by accidedent. I ordered my shaving suplies: badger brush, soap, straight razor, but because the razor was a present for me, I got the brush and the soap (classicshaving, the best I have tried) a month earlier. So, I tried to do my best about learning the propper preparation technique. And what a change it was. I was getting the best shaves of my life, using just soap, brush, water and Mah3.

Here's my advice:
Spend some time on the beard preparation, and lay off the straight razor for a while. Use Mah3, DE, or Shavette type razor (if you are confident in your technique). I reccomend Mah3. Forget about across and against the grain passes. Just shave with the grain first. Examine in which direction you hair grows, and follow that. Don't go over the same spot twice. Once is enough for beginning. When you got the basic, no irritation, nice-feeling-after shave, than you can start thinking of switching to straight and getting that last stubble down. Before putting aftershave, dry your skin with towel with tapping, not rubbing motion. And, finally, use non alcoholic balsam type after shave. I reccomend Nivea aftershave balm for sensitive skin. Also, after putting aftershave on, don't touch your face the whole day to feel that smoothness, that is a nice way to introduce bacteria to the freshly exposed skin layers with no protection. I have done it, and it burns. If your face still feels dry after the first aftershave aplication, you can aply once more after 15 minutes. Don't shave every day, but every other day, this would give your face enough time to recuperate.

After learning how to get nice shave with this technique, continue to do it for at least a 1-2 months. When confident enough in your preparation, switch to Shavette-Feather type. Again, go with the grain only, for a month or two. Skin needs time to addapt to straight razor type blade, since it's more agressive than Mah3. Straight razor blade (DE also) takes a thin layer of skin every shave. This is a good thing, since this exfoliates dead skin cells, leaving your skin to look younger and fresher, another benefit from SR shaving. The daily shaving has no importance on the beard whatsoever (it only thickened mine, so I shave every other day now) exept making you look clean shaved every day.

So, the MOST importang thing is PREPARATION. Hot water, nice lather e.t.c. This is a copy/paste from www.classicshaving.com to do section. It helped me getting my prep process right:

"To begin, run the hot water until it gets as hot as possible (my note: not that hot, hot enough to barely touch). Hold your brush perpendicular to the stream of water, rotating it slowly, making sure to fully saturate the brush hair. This will become evident to you by the increased weight of the brush when fully saturated. Once warmed and loaded with all of the water it can hold, remove it from the stream of water and hold the brush bristles downwards� over the sink. Do not shake, tap, flick or otherwise cause it to drop the water. Allow it to drain only the excess water which the bristles are unable to hold. When the steady stream has stopped draining and all that remains is an intermittent drip, move to the soap cake in your mug. Again, be careful not to move too vigorously so that you will drop all of the water from the brush. Swirl about on top of the soap cake using only the tips of the bristles, without pressing down on the brush. Your purpose here is to load the tips of the bristles with soap, not to generate lather in the mug. When you see a lather beginning to develop in the mug it's a good sign that you have plenty of soap loaded onto the brush. Now for the good part!



At this point your face should still be wet and your brush should be warm and loaded with water and soap. Move the brush to your face and begin a slow deliberate circular motion allowing only the bristle tips to contact the face. Continue the circular motion over the entire area to be shaved. Time spent building lather on your face is time well spent – two minutes is generally about right. Doing so will allow the bristle tips to work the lather deeply into the skin pores and hair follicles providing superior lubrication and protection from the blade, and allowing the moisturizing properties of the soap to work on your skin. It is not necessary to build your lather into mountains that resemble meringue or whipped cream. Remember that any lather not in contact with your beard or skin is useless. What you want is a uniform blanket of lather thick enough that you can't see through it. After sufficient lather is generated you may use the brush in a paintbrush fashion to even out the depth and insure complete coverage. Once finished, don't rinse your brush as you'll need it again later. Rest it in the mug to await its next use."

Prior to this process, wash your face well with soap and hot water. Use running water. If you can, use the hot towel after that, to soften your beard some more. Aply lather in manner described above, and procede with shave. After the shave, rince your face first with hot water, to remove soap residue, than with cold water, to assist the pores to close. Aply aftershave, and if all well done, enjoy

Post your progress...


Nenad

[Joe Lerch]

You're talking about a much greater frequency than one in a million. One of the reasons beards used to be so popular was the shaving problem. Being clean shaven was the unusual state, not bearded. Also, many people used to go to a barber several times a week. Julius Caesar used to have his whiskers plucked (imagine?), and that became the style in Rome.

Str8 shaving went out of use quickly after safety razors were invented. There's a reason for that. Your opinion about technique is based upon being lucky enough not to have a skin problem. There's a lot more of that than you think. A lot of people don't know they have it, so they live with it as long it's not too bad.

I have 45 years of experience with wet shaving and good technique, but I have to worry about skin sensitivity and inflammation every day. There have been times when a wonderfully shaving razor would suddenly cause irritation (it may have nothing to do with the razor), and I would have to stop str8 shaving or any shaving for a while. Right now, I am only able to str8 shave because I have medication that's working.

It's easy to be "hardnosed" when you don't understand the problem.

I may sound kind of hardnosed here but whenever I hear about someone who says they just can't use a straight or obtain success I wonder about what happened a hundred or so years ago when that's all that was available. I know alot of people wore beards then but millions of all skin types and beard types used them with success.

I have always been of the opinion that experience and technique is what translates to success in straight shaving. Certainly its possible that your the one in a million or so that have a real unusual skin problem that throws a monkey wrench into the equation.

I would either try and find someone experienced in straight shaving who could watch you shave and see if your doing something wrong or as has been suggested get a professional straight shave and see what happens. Good Luck.

[themba]

I happen to know a thing or two about ingrowns and other shaving irritation. I am Black and quite predisposed to PFB. Until a few years ago I would not dream about letting a blade come anywhere near me. However, through a learning and experimentation process, I now shave with Straights, injectors and GEMs.

The two main componensts of PFB are:
1.Trauma introduced by shaving. This is more or less razor bumps/burn. This is the part that is the earier of the two to solve. Shaving tools, creams, preparation, etc can help in reducing and eliminating shaving trauma. Not all methods of shaving are equal, and I am not talking about effectiveness. Once you can find the best solution for your skin, you will be left with the the problem below.

2.The effects of the re-growth of curly hair resulting in ingrowns. This can be harder to conquer, since your curly hair is the impeding factor. It is possible to get a good shave without irritation only to suffer from ingrowns as the curly hair attempts to re-grow. In extreme cases the only remedy (short of permanent hair removal) is to wear micro-stubble. Better to have smooth and clear skin with stubble, than to have a hair free face filled with ingrowns and other forms of PFB.

Start slow and do things in a controlled manner. Follow Joe Jerch's method of shaving gradually to skin. I would go a step further and say to follow it, not just in one shave, but over the course of several shaves. What I mean is to try to intentional get a not so good, but uniform shave. Then go from a clean smooth PFB free face with micro-stubble, and progress as close as you can go without PFB. over the couse of several shaves.

Get some professional clippers like the Andis or Oster models. Look into injectors, as well as straights. I would avoid the shavette type unless it has a rigid blade, or get an regular straight, or a feather with a Pro-Guard blade. You will have to find a good rotation with these tools to suite your needs. Finally, keep skin care simple but effection, be well moistured, but not over-moisturized so as to produce excessive oil on your face. Don't just look for some magic skin care formula. It would be nice, but even Tend skin is not always successful for everyone.

On some days you may be able to get a good shave, but if you continue using the same methods, ingrowns may occur. This is why razor/method rotation is useful, it can help to solve such problems.