Super sensitive skin!

Hi all,

I'm looking for some ideas. I've been shaving with a straight razor for almost 2 years now, and I STILL have problems with redness, ingrown hairs, and irritation. Even when I have a super sharp pro honed razor, I still get bad irritation when I shave more than every third day. If I wait 3 or 4 days between shaves, it's good, even if the razor is a bit dull. Every other day is pretty bad, and if I shave two days in a row I look and feel like I steel-wooled my face!

Here is my routine:
1) Strop (sometimes pasted first, if it's been a while)
2) Shower and scrub with an exfoliating soap to work out stuck hairs.
3) Soak brush; at same time, apply pre-shave oil (Art of Shaving)
4) Lather using Gentleman's Quarter soap (good stuff!)
5) Shave down
6) Lather, shave up
7) Lather, touch up
8) Rinse cold, apply alum block
9) Apply Art of Shaving aftershave balm

I've tried lots of different products. This seems the best combo so far.

Any suggestions? Am I just cursed with sensitive skin?

Thanks!

You could try stopping shaving up. The shave won't be as close but it will ameliorate your ingrown hair problem and irritation. Did you have the same problem with a safety razor or even an electric, if you've ever used one? It's worth experimenting. After all, a main reason to use a straight razor is because it provides a more pleasant shaving experience, but if it chews up your face, it's time to test alternatives. A DE perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Unruhe

Did you have the same problem with a safety razor or even an electric, if you've ever used one?

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Oh yeah, I should say: I came to using straight razors after having problems with electrics and safety razors. I started with electrics, but a number of years ago I started getting irritation with them and bad shaves, even after changing blades. Then tried wet with disposable blades... even worse! Finally, I came to straights and DE. I have both straight and DE razors. DE is mostly for travel... I like the straights much better.

So yeah, straights are the best for me so far!

I get a pretty bad shave if I don't shave up. I could try it for a while and see how it looks.

I'd suggest adding a XTG pass before the ATG pass/touchup. You may find that the additional stubble reduction might help out, or you may find that the ATG pass is not required at all after going XTG. See if it works for you.

For me personally I find that I get a irritation free (or nearly irritation free) shave from using a straight exclusively, which is a far cry from my cartridge razor days.

As long as you dont have problems with acne, try applying a small amount of aquaphor ointment or just plain vaseline petroleum jelly to your beard area before bedtime. It will help heal your face faster between shaves.

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Originally Posted by bromion

2) scrub with an exfoliating soap

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I am not sure that is the best thing to do in your situation.

I would try to leave that out for a while and see how it goes.
Try to be very careful with your skin. Don't rub with the towel, when you exit the shower, but gently pad instead. Same after the shave.

Also the finish of the edge can make all the difference if you have sensitive skin.

Best regards,
Bart.

^^^^ what he said.

The areas you shave with a straight razor get plenty of exfoliation - no need for anything else.

Here's something to try: don't even wash your face the day you shave. Instead, rinse/splash well with warm (not hot) water, then face lather with a gentle brush. Let that sit while you strop, then wet the brush a little and swirl the lather around some more. The purpose of all this is to clean the skin/whiskers enough without bothering the skin, as well as to let the lather soften the hairs. Leave it on your face for a good 3-5 minutes, then refresh (if needed) before you shave. Afterwards, use either no aftershave or a very mild balm or moisturizer.

Eliminating some of those other variables should give you a better idea of what might be causing your troubles.

My beard is really coarse, and I just don't shave against it. If I do two passes, with and across, I have no problems. Everytime I decide to go against it, the results are bad. Even without going against it, I get a really nice shave.

Have you tried not using pre-shave oil? I also have sensitive skin, and have NEVER found a pre-shave oil that did not cause a reaction for me.

If the frequency of the shave causes irritation, this may be due to the skin not healing itself quick enough. You may want to find some sort of skin food/moisturing product to help/speed up that healing process (maybe thats what the aftershave balm is supposed to do?). I use something called "face protector" from the body shop, but there are others out there.

My routine is similar to yours up until point 8, then I;

9. Rinse face and completely dry
10. Apply face protector and leave for 10 mins
11. Apply aftershave/cologne

A lot of aftershave balms seems to affect my skin badly (even the ones for sensitive skin), so I usually avoid them.

Also, I may be wrong, but I didnt think using a single blade would cause ingrown hairs unless you either press too hard while stretching the skin too much, or if you are using a blade that isnt sharp enough (which pulls the hair out instead of cutting it off).

Also, I dont usually go for BBS on my neck area under my chin - it was always a problem area when using an electric. The hair seems to grow at a funny angle which makes it really hard to go either with or against the grain, so I am probably only doing XTG on both passes, but the end result is acceptable due to no irritation.

I also have a problem with something in our local water supply, so I make a point of not washing my face between passes, as I find this irritates the skin beyond belief.

Also, I only do 2 passes maximum - if its not BBS I leave it and fix next time, as more than 2 passes makes my skin go crazy.

Anyway, hope some of those suggestions help.

I'll try some of these suggestions, thanks!

The thought on the exfoliating soap is to get out those pesky ingrown hairs or at least raise them up a bit. I'll try without next time.

What would really help would be to heal the skin faster. Clearly, it takes a few days for my skin to heal, so if I shave again soon I get all burned up. I'll try the suggestion of putting some lotion on my face to help it heal overnight.

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Originally Posted by wedwards

Have you tried not using pre-shave oil? I also have sensitive skin, and have NEVER found a pre-shave oil that did not cause a reaction for me.

If the frequency of the shave causes irritation, this may be due to the skin not healing itself quick enough. You may want to find some sort of skin food/moisturing product to help/speed up that healing process (maybe thats what the aftershave balm is supposed to do?). I use something called "face protector" from the body shop, but there are others out there.

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I'll check out the face protector. Could be useful!

I use the Art of Shaving unscented pre-shave oil. I used to not use pre-shave oil, then added it to reduce irritation. I find it helps me.

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Originally Posted by bromion

I'll try some of these suggestions, thanks!

The thought on the exfoliating soap is to get out those pesky ingrown hairs or at least raise them up a bit. I'll try without next time.

What would really help would be to heal the skin faster. Clearly, it takes a few days for my skin to heal, so if I shave again soon I get all burned up. I'll try the suggestion of putting some lotion on my face to help it heal overnight.

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Lotion won't work nearly as well as Vaseline or Aquaphor. Trust me on this.

Well, with my sensitive skin, I find that less is more. I cannot use any of the preshave oils that I've tried. Using MWF soap really did make a big difference for me as well.

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

I'd suggest adding a XTG pass before the ATG pass/touchup. You may find that the additional stubble reduction might help out, or you may find that the ATG pass is not required at all after going XTG. See if it works for you.

For me personally I find that I get a irritation free (or nearly irritation free) shave from using a straight exclusively, which is a far cry from my cartridge razor days.

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+1

I just started doing this recently after coming from a 2-pass technique. Adding another pass between WTG and ATG made the ATG pass much smoother/comfortable.

My only advice here is to avoid shaving ATG. You did
say that you don't get a great shave this way, but I
highly doubt that on day 3 of your `recovery' that your
face is still BBS. Redness, cuts, ingrowns, bumps, will
_always_ look worse than a slightly-less-than BBS
shave.

- Scott

I wanted to post of photo of my neck this afternoon (taken 3pm today) after shaving with a nicely honed razor last night. I shaved last night around 2am.

Does this give any extra insight?

BTW, that was a hard picture to get : )

My dear Bromion,

I get skin irritation when shaving straight north, too. What I do is angle the pass, northeast on the left side and northwest on the right. I seems to work for me without causing irritation.

Most of the time, though, I shave across the grain on the second pass, from the mouth to the ear, thus eliminating the need to shave straight north or angled north.

Of course, beard patterns being different, that might not work for you. It's worth the try, however.

Regards,

Obie

From here, that looks like redness and some hair papillae that are mildly inflamed. I don't think you have any real ingrown whiskers.

Your skin obviously has difficulties coping with the straight.
I don't think that your problem is the direction of your pass.
Avoiding ATG is great for people that develop ingrown hairs easily, because ATG shaves close enough for the whiskers needing to start growing from below the skin surface. When a whisker fails to reemerge out of its little pocket, you get a heavily inflamed pore. I don't think that is your problem.

For the skin itself, it doesn't matter so much that you go ATG or WTG or whatever. Every pass is abrasive to the skin.
There still is a slight difference though: WTG, the direction of the whiskers guides the razor away from the skin, and ATG the razor is guided by the whiskers into the skin. That's why ATG requires less pressure than WTG. The whiskers help the razor to stay close to the skin. Let's look at a drawing:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...ing_angles.jpg
You can clearly see how the razor is guided into the skin ATG. You can also see that ATG asks for a lower shaving angle. A lower angle ATG really makes a big difference on the amount of skin wear.
You could even try to flee forward, and skip doing several WTG and XTG strokes, that only add to the abrasion of your skin. If the stubble is still short because you shaved the day before, try going directly ATG with a shallow angle on the most sensitive spots. I might make a difference.

I'm also going to repeat that the finish of the edge could make a difference as well. I know it does for me. (I made a free honing offer in this thread, and you seem like the perfect candidate... :))

None of these suggestions will work if you don't first allow your skin to heal and calm down.

Best regards,
Bart.

Yeah, that looks painful for sure! Looks like a bad combo of weepers, razor burn and ingrowns...... like my mach 3 days.

I'd say thats from the ATG pass, perhaps a too steep angle combined with super sensitive skin. I agree with the above, try a diagonal pass under your chin.

Just another thought, but have you tried another type of soap/cream? Many members swear by GQ, but it my not be for your skin. Especially if it's FO instead of EO based.

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Originally Posted by Bart

I'm also going to repeat that the finish of the edge could make a difference as well. I know it does for me. (I made a free honing offer in this thread, and you seem like the perfect candidate... :))

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This is great info! I'd take you up on your honing offer, but sending the razor to Belguim and back might take a bit too long. I don't think I can be without my straight that long : ) Where in Belgium, by the way? I was in Antwerp some years ago -- loved it!

I get the same irritation with all methods of shaving, even DE, and a new DE blade has a perfect edge, basically. Straight razors produce the least trouble, especially if my beard has grown out for a few days. Those days, it's real nice.

In my picture, I should note I did start using a different soap recently. It's hard to compare, but I have gotten similar problems before. This soap is Mitchell's Wool Fat. Old soap was Gentleman's Quarter (don't recall either leatherneck or line margarita).

I wonder if it could be my stropping. I mean, I think I know how to strop properly by now, but I've never been checked on it! How many passes should I do? I usually do 50.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bromion

I wanted to post of photo of my neck this afternoon (taken 3pm today) after shaving with a nicely honed razor last night. I shaved last night around 2am.

Does this give any extra insight?

BTW, that was a hard picture to get : )

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There are a couple linear scratches which seem to be due to scraping of the skin with your razor. There are also a number of small circular eroded areas 1 mm or so in diameter, which have a follicular pattern, that is, they follow a pattern of hair follicles. Towards the lower part of your neck, you have an intact pustule, you can see the white head of it, if you magnify the picture. So part of this appears to be technique, ie the scratches, but also part is folliculitis, induced by shaving. Pseudofolliculitis usually has more of a bumpy and less inflamed quality, but if you are shaving off the bumps completely each time you shave, it could give this appearance.

Its quite possible you might not be able to shave with a straight razor, have you tried using an electric for a short time and does this solve the problem? If you really want to continue straight razor shaving, here are a couple things to try.

1) bacteria can worsen folliculitis, so using an anti-bacterial wash such as benzoyl peroxide 5% once a day might help. Keep in mind you should do it at the opposite time of day that you shave, ie if you shave at night wash in morning, because the benzoyl peroxide, even though you wash it off, can be irritating on freshly shaven skin.

2) hydrocortisone 1% ointment you can get over the counter, and you can try applying that twice a day. This will calm down the irritation, and the ointment will provide a nice gentle way to replace lost oils on the skin which may be exacerbating the folliculitis. Also follicultis can cause itching so the hydrocortisone will help that too.

3) try shaving extra gently on your neck and try to get away with as little ATG action as possible.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Pete

I know there a some shavers getting good use out of Alum, but it does cause skin irritation to some people. To find out the culprit, my suggestion:
1. Quit XTG
2. Discontinue Alum.

If rash irritation goes away add one of the above back into your routine if you wish. If irritation returns, you found the culprit. If no irritation add the next.
I know many here use Alum on the face, but look at the link below and consider what is a well known fact.

http://www.prochemical.com/MaterialS...bling/Alum.pdf

Mike

Something you may not want to do but might work is to let you beard grow out for a while. However long you think is necessary to "reset". I have sensitive skin (chemically, not to abrasion/shaving though) but there was a day when I accidentally used a wrong angle on my upper lip and got like tons of weepers and ingrowns and it didn't really fix itself with my regular routine. So I let nature take its course, dutifully scrubbing the ingrowns out, antibacterial washes (as prescribed above) and let everything grow for a week, and when I started up again I was fine. Worth a shot? It seems like after 4 days its helping you, but after 4 days are you FULLY healed or mostly/tolerably healed?

Gentlemen,

I must thank Kingfish for posting the link to information about alum.

I finally gave up on using alum block after the shave because of the irritation it caused to my skin. Super witch hazel is just fine for me.

Regards,

Obie

YMMV, of course, but adding alum to my shave routine reduced razor burn, healed weepers quicker, and all around made my freshly shaved face feel much better. I'm sticking with it.

EDIT: and i'm sorry if somebody already mentioned this, but you really should rinse the alum off after about 30-60 seconds after shaving. It sounds like some guys left it on all day and I can understand how that would feel incredibly uncomfortable.

Alum doesn't seem to make much difference to me either way. Now I just use it on cuts and nicks, which unfortunately still happen sometimes! : )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

but you really should rinse the alum off after about 30-60 seconds after shaving. It sounds like some guys left it on all day and I can understand how that would feel incredibly uncomfortable.

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+1 on that. Any longer than a minute or so on me (I generally try and let it more or less dry having applied after a cold-rinse) would just plain hurt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obie

Gentlemen,

I must thank Kingfish for posting the link to information about alum.

I finally gave up on using alum block after the shave because of the irritation it caused to my skin. Super witch hazel is just fine for me.

Regards,

Obie

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Your most welcome Obie. I was suprised to see so many members using it on another post. Witch Hazel is my best friend too.

Mike

Just an update. For my last few shaves, I have tried not shaving WTG and starting with ATG. This seems to help some in my problem areas where WTG doesn't remove much hair anyway (like the neck). I will probably keep WTG for my cheeks and lip area but skip it for the rest.

I have read through this with interest. Your neck seems to be the issue. My neck was a tricky one as well. The shave oil may be what is causing the redness. Skip the Shave oil.

Do you stretch the area and shave lightly? Sometimes, I use more than a 30 degee pitch to shave certain areas of the neck and sometimes I go less than 30 degrees. I just listen to the razor as it cuts.

Do not let anything cool on your neck between passes and that includes the soap. Keep those pores open with warm - hot water between passes and perhaps adding a little more glycerin to your GQ soap may help.

I don't use the styptic pencil. A good cold water rise when I finish closes up all the pores and weepers. If a big weeper, I just use the TP seal it. This rarely happens.

I also use a facial cream for sensitive skin and water it down a little. I do have a whole house water filter, so I know the water does not provide additional challenges.

Tough one and good luck!

Pabster

Could the water really be an issue? I have pretty nasty water in my building, but I have a filter for my aquarium. If I wanted to use that water, I'd have to heat it first, though. Thoughts?

To answer your question on water, I have been using a house filter (Aquasana Rhino) for so long, its hard to say. I know hard water dries out my skin, leaves it scaley, and doesn't feel good on me. Since you shave with your pores wide open and the blade scraping by, I rather only have good filtered water in the mix. I have a great prefilter that gets pretty dirty ever 4-5 months and I always find sand type specs at the bottom of it when I change it. It certainly raises my ebrow every time I change it.

As for the fish tank, I wouldn't recommend it. Look into smaller filtration systems.

With all thats going for me and having sensitive skin, I can get away with 4 passes and not irritate the skin.:)

Good Luck!

Pabster

I have a 50 gallon-per-day RO/DI system for my aquarium. I can try taking water from that system and heating it up for use. See how that goes.

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Originally Posted by Pabster

To answer your question on water, I have been using a house filter (Aquasana Rhino) for so long, its hard to say. I know hard water dries out my skin, leaves it scaley, and doesn't feel good on me. Since you shave with your pores wide open and the blade scraping by, I rather only have good filtered water in the mix. I have a great prefilter that gets pretty dirty ever 4-5 months and I always find sand type specs at the bottom of it when I change it. It certainly raises my ebrow every time I change it.

As for the fish tank, I wouldn't recommend it. Look into smaller filtration systems.

With all thats going for me and having sensitive skin, I can get away with 4 passes and not irritate the skin.:)

Good Luck!

Pabster

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as some have already said.... i make as few passes as possible. also i get bumps like those in your picture if i dry my face w/ any motion w/ the towel. seriously... any motion. i blot dry my face after shaving. also i realized that after stropping my razor w/ paste on the strop i got lots of nicks and irritation on my neck and jawline. to remedy that i have to strop my razor on "bare" strop for more passes than normal. hope that helps?

I'm glad to hear that it's improving, if only slightly!

I don't know if this will help, but you may try only WTG & XTG passes.

I've tried electrics, different cartridge razors, then DE razors, and now straights, and I have never been able to get an irritation-free shave going ATG with any type of razor.

I know that many people consider going ATG neccessary for a good shave, but I have been shaving in this manner for so long that I can now get a BBS shave by going only WTG & XTG. (2 WTG passes, 1 XTG)

If you keep having those problems, I'd say that the top 2 reasons for that are:

1) Pressure
2) Edge smoothness

I have similar problems, and not yet resolved, although I will say that I found blade angle and using a very light touch helped a lot. My neck is really tricky, as on the horizontal part of my neck the har grows from chin to back of head, but on the vertical part of my neck hair grows upwards so there's a line in my neck where hair goes different directions and meets itself that's very hard to get without irritation.

I tried the WTG only thing, and it does work for no irritation on my cheeks etc but neck still has issues. The other downside to WTG only for me is that the shave ends up looking like I used the "clipper" side of a Norelco and still has the sandpaper consistency to it. I have found that the best shave for me is ATG only... best compromise. Still working on getting no shave bumps though.

i just read in the faq here about stropping w/ abrasive compounds (pastes) and there are some definite disadvantages to it. this is from the faq... not me.

What is a convex bevel?
When a blade is honed on a strop loaded with some sort of abrasive compound, the cutting bevel looses its triangular shape and becomes arc-shaped (or "convexed"). This has both advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages
Changing a triangle into an arc, per definition removes the most material near the tip of the triangle. Since the tip of our triangle is directly connected to the edges sharpness, convexing is highly effective for gaining keenness.
The abrasion, primarily taking place at the very tip of the triangle, aka "bevel", allows for very fast removal of steel. Fast enough so that we can use extremely fine abrasives and still be able to actually alter the shape of the bevel. (which is imperative for having any sharpening effect). Those same fine abrasives would be virtually useless in gaining keenness, when used in hone-form, simply because a hone doesn't divert most of its abrasive action to the tip of the bevel in the way a pasted strop does.
Disadvantages
Once the bevel is arc shaped, the very edge can no longer make contact with the flat surface of a hone. Not without resetting the bevel first. Hence one cannot touch up a pasted razor with a hone.
Since the abrasion is done with the edge trailing on pasted strops, the very tip of the bevel will be composed of bur-like steel, which isn't as durable. It depends a bit on the abrasive medium used, but in any case, part of the obtained keenness will disappear within very few shaves. The wow-effect of a pasted edge usually lasts but one or two shaves.
With each touch-up the edge becomes more arc-shaped. One can try to avoid that, but that also robs the process of its main advantages. In the end, the arc become so rounded, that the shaving comfort will be seriously compromised, and a lot of work to recreate flat bevel panes will be needed.

I found that what made the difference was the combination of soap/creme I was using. I got bad dry/burn when I used just cheap-o Williams Mug Soap (which I have to agree with someone else on the forum who said it made better hand soap!). I then used it in uber-lather with Bigelow creme and glycerine and still got the dry burn. I switched the Williams out with the Conk glycerine soap and used that in the uber-lather combo and No More Burn! I guess I have much more sensitive skin than I thought, but getting rid of the "soapy" soaps seems to have done the trick. I also just spread pure aloe all over my face/neck when I'm done and that's a big help (I'm not the biggest after-shave person...still looking for something I can live with). I was worried that my technique was bad, but it was reassuring to know that it had much more to do with the "stuff".

Julian

Well, after a number of shaves with this razor from Bart, I am definitely thinking of learning to hone on a coticule. Definitely the best few shaves I have had in a while!

I will try using some cream for my next shave. Lately it's been all soap... Mitchell's Wool Fat or Gentleman's Quarter.