Probs with new Bismarck

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10-12-2009, 09:46 AM
Stubear

Probs with new Bismarck

Hi folks,

I've just read another thread about someone who had been having problems with their new Bismarck as well and its prompted me to post this.

I got my Bismarck from a reputable supplier and the razor was sold as shave ready. The first couple of shaves were pretty abismal, with alot of stubble left at the end so I had to touch up with my DE afterwards.

I contacted the supplier and voiced my concerns and they very kindly took the razor back for a re-honing and refunded my postage.

When I got the razor back it was sharper than before and would shave arm hair floating above the arm, though not as much as my other razor. This is a DOVO Black Star and I get great shaves from it, and I can shave vast quantities of arm hair very easily when holding the razor off the skin.

After shaving with the rehoned razor I still did not get as good a shave as I do with the Black Star and the keenness of the edge seemed to deteriorate over the course of the shave. By the end it was hardly removing any stubble at all and I had to do loads of passes to get an even halfway decent result.

I did actually strop the razor again during the shave which helped a bit, but not much. I also found that by the end of the shave I could not shave any arm hair at all.

I did follow the advice of just using the razor right out of the box with no stropping, and I've been using my black star for about 6 months now and, if anything, it seems sharper than when I first bought it..! So I`m pretty happy that my stropping isnt the problem.

So really I'm left with a few possibilities.

One, the razor hasnt been honed enough. I'm dubious of this though, because the supplier has an excellent reputation and I cant believe that it is their work at fault. I was just wondering whether these razors have particularly hard steel or something?

Two, its a dodgy razor.

Three, theres some secret technique to getting a good shave out of Bismarcks. But then why wont it shave arm hair when my other razor will? That just doesnt seem right to me.

So, what should I do next? Send it for another honing? Change the razor?

I really love the look of this razor and I dont want to give up on it. Plus the fact that my Black Star gives such excellent shaves, I cant believe that this is a one off dodgy razor. Its got to be something and its driving me nuts! Help!

EDIT: I've also tried a variety of angles on my face to no avail, both more and less than 30 degrees so I`m not sure what to do now!
10-12-2009, 10:45 AM
AFDavis11

I would assume that your face prefers the honing technique used in your first razor. Can you get it done there?

In theory the edge could have some oxidation but I think most of those razors are in pretty good shape.

The razor could also have been honed up really sharp and is now unsupportable. Chances are that you first razor, "sharpened" up nicely with lots of stropping, will always be your best shaver, until you strop the second razor equally (after another milder honing).

If you have a finishing stone I would just apply the razor to a finishing stone for a bit and start stropping it up again.
10-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Stubear

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I would assume that your face prefers the honing technique used in your first razor. Can you get it done there?

In theory the edge could have some oxidation but I think most of those razors are in pretty good shape.

The razor could also have been honed up really sharp and is now unsupportable. Chances are that you first razor, "sharpened" up nicely with lots of stropping, will always be your best shaver, until you strop the second razor equally (after another milder honing).

If you have a finishing stone I would just apply the razor to a finishing stone for a bit and start stropping it up again.

Thanks for the advice!

I've spoken to the guys who honed my Black Star and they can do it. I just need to actually go in and have it done! I was just wondering whether there was something else that might be the problem..?

I'll try doing some passes on my 16k Shapton and then onto my canvas with chalk strop and then leather and see what that does as well.

I've also contacted the seller to ask their advice.

Thanks again!
10-12-2009, 12:42 PM
hi_bud_gl

old bismark's were great shaver.i used 406 and i loved.i think problem most like with your razor.go head try get it sharpened again and see what happens.gl
10-12-2009, 12:53 PM
majurey

I've always had great success in honing my Bismark (new model) -- it was my first blade and still remains to this day the one which is easiest to hone.

As you're in London, I'm more than willing to hone this up for you for free. I'm not a 'honemeister', but I am confident in being able to give you a decent shave-ready blade. I did this for another London-based member here (Dave12345) earlier this year with two of his razors with great success. In fact, we turned it into a bit of a honing tutorial.

PM me if you're interested and I'm sure we can sort something out.
10-12-2009, 12:54 PM
zib

Hi, Are there any Barber's in your area that still do str8 shaves, maybe you could bring it there, and have them give it a go, or do you have a mate nearby that uses them? I'm thinking it may not be the razor. Bismarcks, Dovo, and the parent company Solingen make excellent razors. If it's popping arm hair, that doesn't mean it's shave ready, though it's close. Are you stropping it? I've heard Bismarck needs a bit of a different angle than most razors. This I don't know, I have several and never had any problems. I adjust the blade while I'm shaving for optimum performance, if that makes sense. Do you how to do the TNT. That would be a good indicator of shave readiness, However, it's been said that this test may actually dull your blade, be careful, Check the WIKI.....
It may just need fine tuning....

There ya go, I just posted this, and there's a post with a London member offering to help.....
10-12-2009, 11:59 PM
m0isty

P.M. Sent...
10-13-2009, 12:14 AM
nun2sharp

It sounds like the edge may be crumbling, oxidization or super thin edge. If either is true it may need to go all the way back to bevel setting.
10-13-2009, 12:27 AM
onimaru55

Quote:

Originally Posted by zib

Do you how to do the TNT. That would be a good indicator of shave readiness, However, it's been said that this test may actually dull your blade, be careful, Check the WIKI.....
.

I think you might mean the TPT or Thumb Pad Test. The TNT or Thumbnail Test is only used at bevel setting stage & will certainly degrade a shave ready edge.

Re the OP. I've just honed 3 new Dovos & all had issues with the edge from either being too thin & crumbling or having an incomplete bevel.
10-13-2009, 02:33 AM
sdsquarepoint

I've experienced sucha problem early on with my "Straight Razor Place " club razor *23.

I kept trying to touch it up with no luck. I then discovered that the bevel needed to be fully shaped. I attacked it with a serious but not too thick coticule slurry and it finally changed a razor that gave my unsatisfactory results for months. Now It performs like a totally different razor.

If you choose to work on it yourself I'd suggest concentrating on the bevel and the rest should much more easily. Heavy Duty had a good series of videos on this site under General category.

I'm banking on the need to bevel work. I'm sure that the razor can obtain pleasing results with more work.
MikeB
10-13-2009, 02:46 PM
stuhaz

honing a Bismarck

I'm thinking of getting one of these great looking razors - however I'm not sure if the fancy spine needs special attention when honing.

What do you experienced guys do when honing these fancy spine blades - is taping the spine the "norm" here? also, in this thread with suggested bevel work, again would the spine be best taped, and wouldn't that result in always having to use tape when subsequently touching up?

Thanks.

Stuart
10-13-2009, 03:35 PM
Stubear

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuhaz

I'm thinking of getting one of these great looking razors - however I'm not sure if the fancy spine needs special attention when honing.

What do you experienced guys do when honing these fancy spine blades - is taping the spine the "norm" here? also, in this thread with suggested bevel work, again would the spine be best taped, and wouldn't that result in always having to use tape when subsequently touching up?

Thanks.

Stuart

Yeah, they do look good!

The one I ordered had been honed with no tape and you could see a little bit of spine wear. Its about 0.5mm across I guess, so nothing too major and you cant really see it. Just a thin flat spot on the very edge where blade meets spine.

If you do tape your spine you'll need to do it all the time to keep the angles of the edge right. If you use tape and subsequently stop, or vice versa, you'll need to reset the bevel.

I personally do tape, just to avoid wearing down the spine. But if I had a razor that had been honed beforehand without tape then I would continue to not use tape. Basically I'll protect the spine if I can, but not if it means I have to spend ages sorting the bevel out. I'm lazy like that..! :D
10-13-2009, 07:08 PM
radaddict

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuhaz

I'm thinking of getting one of these great looking razors - however I'm not sure if the fancy spine needs special attention when honing.

What do you experienced guys do when honing these fancy spine blades - is taping the spine the "norm" here? also, in this thread with suggested bevel work, again would the spine be best taped, and wouldn't that result in always having to use tape when subsequently touching up?

Thanks.

Stuart

If you want to protect the spine, the by all means tape. I prefer not to tape if at all possible. If I'm in the middle of a shave and the blade starts to pull just a bit (and stropping won't fix it), I'll lather up a barber hone and do a quick few laps to get it shaving smooth again. I wouldn't really be able to do that if I had to take the time to tape the spine. It all comes down to personal preference and whatever works best for you.
10-13-2009, 07:15 PM
gary haywood

I own a couple of bismarks i never tape the spine personal prefferance. when mine came it had been factory honed they clearly did'nt use tape as there is a little spine wear. i would use one layer if setting a second bevel thats the only time which is very rear mainly on wedges
10-13-2009, 10:10 PM
sdsquarepoint

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuhaz

I'm thinking of getting one of these great looking razors - however I'm not sure if the fancy spine needs special attention when honing.

What do you experienced guys do when honing these fancy spine blades - is taping the spine the "norm" here? also, in this thread with suggested bevel work, again would the spine be best taped, and wouldn't that result in always having to use tape when subsequently touching up?

Thanks.

Stuart

I don't believe you will have to always do it with tape following the first time if the belvel is re=worked as that is the point of bevel work. It has worked fine for me to reset the bevel without tape. The exact angle will change but that might not be bad. Smaller bevels can then be re-had.

Touching up the blade you will likely need to follow it though
MikeB