Weird lathering instructions

A mate paid a visit to a store where they sell shaving gear and also teach people how to shave & lather (for a price, of course).

The story I heard was pretty strange on what they discribed as 'corect' lathering.

First of all, the guy said not to twirl your brush on your puck of soap however you want, nono he said, the owner said to go up and down on the puck, as if you were painting a wall. Huh?

Then, on face lathering, do not make circles he said, and don't just mess about with it in all directions, once again, paint your face.

--

People have to pay to hear this kind of advice, and I'm REALLY not agreeing with what they teach there. I'm the exact opposite of the above instructions. Anyone care to correct me? In my humble opinion the least pleasant shaving experience is 'painting' your face with lather, it's like being licked by a lama (I imagine...)!

It truly shocks me that they gave him this kind of advice.

When I went to a similar shop, but in Brussels, they also gave me completely messed up information, like stropping every day on Chrox, and sharpening the razor on a friggin belt (machine). I really don't understand this anymore, if your job is to sell razors and classic shaving gear, would it not be a little bit common sense to do some research on HOW to shave CORRECTLY?

Of course, if you all agree with what the owner told my mate, please do tell me so I correct my shaving ritual.

I'm quite new to this but as far as I have read your supposed to swirl or do whatever you like on the soap and then work the lather onto your face, not just to paint it on, and for me this works just great. :)

Its my experience that quite often the so-called "experts" actually dont have any idea what they're talking about..! I've asked several barbers here in London about various things, and the advice I have been given has varied from accurate to the misleading to the downright nonsensical!

Make your lather however you feel like, theres no right or wrong way, just whatever results in a good lather for you. If a circular motion works, do that. If you like to paint the lather on, do that. Whatever gives you the lather you need!

As to sharpening on a belt machine and stropping everyday on CrOx, arent you glad you're one of the enlightened members of this forum..! Anyone who did that would quickly find that their razor was ruined by the belt machine or dulled by the overuse of CrOx.

I'd take the advice of forum members here over 99.999% of the advice I'd get in a store. The reason being that members here are passionate about the topic and have years of experience in the field. To the guys in the stores its basically just a job, with very few exceptions. Dont get me wrong, there are barbers and shopkeepers out there who know their stuff, who can hone, lather and shave and give accurate advice. But there are also those who dont and who will give you the wrong advice.

Challenge him to a lather building competition!

OK this I remember asking my dad some 40+ years ago..
This was way before we ruined the poor man's morning by buying him canned crap and disposable razors...

Pops was a "Sailor man " when it came to shaving at least in my kid eyes, he used Old Spice... He always had an "Old Spice" mug brush and soap set every Christmas, along with the obligatory AS :)

Every weekday morning you could hear him get up and start the coffee, then head to the bathroom to shave... You could hear the sink fill and the click clickity click of him working the bush in the mug...

I remember one time asking him why he always went in circles and sorta mashed the brush into his face when he lathered, "Hey Pop why don't you just paint it on like they do a wall" ???

His answer "Son, because you want the lather to be under your beard too, not just on top" Smart man my Pops !!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stubear

Its my experience that quite often the so-called "experts" actually dont have any idea what they're talking about..! I've asked several barbers here in London about various things, and the advice I have been given has varied from accurate to the misleading to the downright nonsensical!

Make your lather however you feel like, theres no right or wrong way, just whatever results in a good lather for you. If a circular motion works, do that. If you like to paint the lather on, do that. Whatever gives you the lather you need!

As to sharpening on a belt machine and stropping everyday on CrOx, arent you glad you're one of the enlightened members of this forum..! Anyone who did that would quickly find that their razor was ruined by the belt machine or dulled by the overuse of CrOx.

I'd take the advice of forum members here over 99.999% of the advice I'd get in a store. The reason being that members here are passionate about the topic and have years of experience in the field. To the guys in the stores its basically just a job, with very few exceptions. Dont get me wrong, there are barbers and shopkeepers out there who know their stuff, who can hone, lather and shave and give accurate advice. But there are also those who dont and who will give you the wrong advice.

---

Boy, I agree! When I was first starting out, I talked to every barber in our county and I swear I got more useful assistance and information in one minute on the Forum than with all the hours trucking around to all the barbershops. It's almost like they have forgotten their "art"...or it's just not being taught anymore. I got a lot of "don't that, son...you'll just cut yourself up...things are modern for a reason...oh, that's that old school shaving that went out when cro-magnan came on the scene" and such.

After about 30 seconds on the forum, I had tons of information and a fantastic gentleman offered to look at and hone up the razor that I had been grinding my face with for a month. I was off to the races!

In the end it's just as well. As someone mentioned in the "What should a man know" post, we should be able to, with enough information, pick up an old art and be somewhat proficient at it (with time and practice). In many ways, this has been one of the more constructive learning processes I have had. Extremely rewarding!

Have a great morning, men!

Julian

Lovely story six, I enjoyed and could imagine it :)

And yes, I also think just painting makes no sense if you think about it, you need that hair to get soap everywhere, not just 'pasted on top like that'. But I made this post not to verify the techniques, I just can't stand it that at the very shops where they sell this gear they seem to always give incorrect instructions, and these lads are not even ashamed to charge you for it (25 EUR!!).

It's just so strange, because as said above, one minute reading here will teach you so much, and these guys don't even take the time to do just that. Instead they sell people like me a straight razor, give me wrong instructions, and had I not found this forum I would have stopped using it because clearly it was not shaving the way it was supposed to...

One of the two or perhaps both my rooney and simpson brushes came with some sort of "paint don't smoosh" type of instruction. It was some hoopla about brush longevity. IIRC one said to dry it on a stand hair side down and the other said to dry it on the base hair side up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stubear

Its my experience that quite often the so-called "experts" actually dont have any idea what they're talking about..! I've asked several barbers here in London about various things, and the advice I have been given has varied from accurate to the misleading to the downright nonsensical!

---

Stubear, it's funny, I've had a very similar experience. I found trying to get advice from the salesmen at TOBS like something out of a Monty Python sketch. One even went as far as calling out one of their barbers to convince me that I should be honing my warped Dovo in a circular pattern, edge down with the spine raised on their 400 grit touch up stone! I think this was to avoid exchanging the warped razor. On another occasion, I asked one of their salesmen for some advice on getting rid of a tiny chip. He proceeded to give it a white knuckle strop on linen and wrecked what was left of the edge. I think a lot of the trouble is the barbers themselves only use disposable bladed straights. The only decent advice I ever got from a shop was from one of the assistants at Trumpers on Curzon Street who actually pointed me towards this site. Sadly he retired the following month.

Hmm. Turns out I need to speak in defense again of The Koordenwinkel (and of Robert Chevalier who owns the store). I don't know Robert personally. I visited his store twice. Robert and his wife are very fine people who run one of the coziest stores in Antwerp. My friend had an old dull razor that he inherited from his grandfather. Robert started honing the razor, but then he remembered he had an appointment with his dentist, so his wife stepped in and finished the job. In the next months my friend learned to shave with that razor. They didn't charge anything for the honing and there was no obligation to buy anything from there store.
Robert is a sort of Flemish Lynn. He initiated a revival of straight razor shaving in the Dutch speaking part of Belgium some 20 years ago. He has been hosting courses for a long time. I haven't followed them, but I do own a copy of his notes, that guided me through my first months of straight shaving.

It's true. Robert has developed his ideas and methods for shaving independently from any Internet groups such as this one, hence not everything he believes is in tune with everything we believe here on SRP. His method for honing raises eyebrows, sometimes. Yet countless people have successfully learned to shave with his edges and continue to do so today.

He indeed advices against swirling the brush. He sells brushes in his store. (De Messenwinkel / Oud huis De Koordenwinkel) Expensive brushes. I bet he had his share of customers complaining about brushes with hair loss. The painting strokes he advices, are far more gentle on the brush. I don't give a damn about that advice, but then again, I bought a reasonably priced Semogue from Leon and didn't mind finding out the hard way if it would accept the (ab)use I put on it, or not. No problems so far.:) But using a brush, with painting strokes only, does the job too. You can paint ATG, WTG, XTG and the lather will get under the hairs just as good as when you swirl.

I know Jan didn't disclose the name of the store, but there are plenty people in Belgium and the Netherlands who know that Robert is extremely cautious when it comes to handling brushes, so they can figure out who we are talking about. It is true that Robert and his wife make a living out of selling cutlery, ropes (yes ropes) and shave gear. They are completely authentic, honest and passionate about what they do. You only have to visit their lovely store once to know that much. I would hate it if they would be considered any less than the experts they truly are, just because they are not completely in tune with the ideas of the major shaving forums.

With respect and love for "our" crafty art,
Bart.

I definitely didn't mean to name any names, because I am aware that it is probably the ONE good shaving store we have in our entire country. I've just about had it with our stores here. The ones in Brussels have sold me only nonsense, which you have partially experienced when I handed you my paid sharpened *dull* razor. I remember when I turned in my razor in the second store, that *really* messed up that razor, I should have known something was wrong when she stropped the blade in the wrong direction when showing me how to do it... I figured she was just confused, lol. And they too are highly respected, cutlers to the crown.

I guess this was just the comment that made me want to vent on the board a little.

I'm guessing the store owners prefer you not to swirl the brush around, lowers the chances of you complaining it loses hair. I tried to lather the way he said tonight, I'm confident it's great for the brush, not that great for (warm) lather.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much from the shops... All I know is that I've been getting a lot better advice buying stuff online, from many members of this board, getting great service and priceless advice for free. I blame you all for setting the standard too high :D

Anyhow, I did not mean to disrespect the said store, otherwise I would not have skipped on the naming part. It's a nice & pleasant store, and I guess they just have a peculiar way of lathering...

Yes, challenge him to a shave off. Then kill him and make him into a delicious meat pie because your wife is dead, but not really dead, just crazy and psychic.


Sorry, been seeing way too many "official Sweeny Todd" replica straights on eBay lately.

I've noticed on those times I don't make lather well (still working on being consistent), if I swirl on my face I can see that the lather is bad. For instance if I made my lather too thin it looks thin when I swirl. If I use a painting motion to apply it, the lather looks better even when its bad. Sure you're just layering the lather, but it LOOKS better.

I'm sure there's some reason a person would teach people to make lather LOOK better when giving a lesson in their store. I just can't put my finger on why. :shrug:

I am still new at making a real good lather, but I have noticed not too much of a difference in production between painting and swirling. The great difference I have noticed is as mentioned earlier is that bad lather becomes apparent when it hits the face. Like I said I am still learning and it is threads like this that help me weed good info from bad info, thanks guys.


Chris