Preparing a home for new razor

Hi, I've been lurking around for a few months now and am finally taking the plunge. My wife is buying me a new razor for Christmas ( now if I can just find it, I know it's hidden in the garage somewhere....) and am trying to get set up. Razor is new from Classic Shaving with sharpening from Lynn. Got badger brush, couple different shaving soaps from England, 2 sided paddle strop, .5 micron diamond compound, protractor.... Good thing this will save me so much money since I'm sure this will pay for itself in... well, maybe my grandchildren can finish paying for it!

Now my questions are, is there any good video of how to use a paddle strop? I've watched a honing video of using a Norton 4000/8000 but would like to see what proper paddle strop technique looks like. Is there anything I need to do to prepare strop? Do you strop before? after? Before and after? During? Is .5 enough or should I get 1.0 micron too? (Would that require a 3 sided strop? :D )

Should I pick up a Norton too (along w associated flattening tools- yet more $$$) or a Swaty? What is the grit size of a swaty and how does it compare? Is there a way to protect the gold spine during honing/stropping or is that just destined to wash away? Any thoughts on rust prevention? I know wd40 would work but methinks it may be an irritant- besides which, the smell doesn't blend well with Trumpers Almond.

Perhaps I need a second practice razor. Besides, a second razor would save me money twice as fast by making the first last twice as long, right?

Lots of questions huh? Well you've come to the right place. Unfortunately for you, I'm going to answer. Ok, my opinion. Your doing everything right so far. I wouldn't suggest buying anything else right now. I can't compare a Norton to a Swaty. Except to say they don't really compare to each other. I would suggest in this order. That you buy a small handheld microscope at Radioshack. When you get the blade, look at what it looks like. This will become your guide for the end product for shaving. For stropping I can't give you a good video reference, I can tell you I have seen lots of bad ones. Gentle on the strop, smooth, spine leads the motion. No points for speed. I don't think you need a hone yet, but a Swaty is a nice addition. The Norton is designed to hone a blade from the other end (dull to sharp). The pasted strop and the Swaty from the end you'll be on (sharp to slightly pulling). If you decide to learn to hone from dull to sharp and use a Norton, I WOULD BUY ANOTHER RAZOR.

Usually the spine juts out along the edge and you don't hone the gold wash off you hone on the steel, this is incorportated in the design. WD40 smells great with Almond soap, what are you talking about? I just dry my razors, most guys use a dab of oil, machine oil, etc I think. Keep the razor open and dry for about 5 minutes, the water inside the scales is a problem. I oil it if I'm not going to look at it for more than 3 days.

Learning to use a razor and using a washback beauty honed by Lynn has some drawbacks. YES, you need to learn how to strop first. Yes, you may hone it to ugly uselessness. So, please go slow with honing. Good side, is that badboy will shave you and with good prep you'll figure out where your blade should be. Stropping a beauty like that should be done nice and easy.

.5 by itself should be fine, I would strop on plain leather the first time and shave with it (after looking at it with a micro) It should shave well. After a while it'll pull, then use the .5 to "update" the edge. This should be rare, shaving wise. Like maybe once a month? Don't know...gotta tough beard? I do not strop after shaving, because I don't want to subject my strop to that kind of punishment. I believe though that most guys do strop after shaving. Benefits? Got me... You'll get more input on that later. As a newbie, watch out for advice like: I strop before, after, during, and on Sunday. First, stropping is done to improve the shave, I strop naked at midnight a week before I'm going to shave too, but I know it doesn't do much to improve the results. Two, you are new, and excessive stropping is dangerous to the blade and lowers your feedback for how well you strop. Some feel stropping afterwards will keep the blade life longer. I'll let them tell you that, I wouldn't know. If you screw up the blade stropping after a shave, hey, thats your problem, compounded only by the fact that it didn't really need to be done. Sometimes I strop on linen afterward, don't think you have that as an option though (and most people don't do that).

The key with a razor honed by Lynn is to strop very lightly, keep the blade flat, keep the paddle secure, and don't let the blade "fall" off the strop sideways. Send it back to him if you screw it up with a big apology letter. You need a video? There is a video around here somewhere which is correct for the first 20 seconds, after that it goes all to hell. If you ever see anyone slapping a razor against a strop, slap them back for me.

There's another thread titled The Grand Experiment where we are discussing this very thing now and early reports seem to indicate that stropping after shaving does help the edge stay sharper longer.

That aside, Mr. Davis is right on all accounts, especially a noobee's tendancy to damage the edge by improper stropping. Ensure you strop gently and slowly about twenty-five to thirty times immediately before shaving.

X

PS A second razor is essential IMO. You need to learn to strop on something. :D

Yes I saw the video of the barber stropping- however I've seen batons in a marching band being twirled slower than that razor was being twirled in that video. Maybe I missed something in the blur. I think if I attempted it I would end up with one or more missing fingers and a really pretty folding butter knife!

I personally don't think strop after shaving makes a difference. I have never stropped after shaving and I have a Lynn honed razor I have been using for the last five months with no noticeable decrease in sharpness. I have used several of my favorite razors in fact for several months with no problems. Just my 2cents.;)

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I can't compare a Norton to a Swaty. Except to say they don't really compare to each other. I would suggest in this order. That you buy a small handheld microscope at Radioshack. When you get the blade, look at what it looks like. This will become your guide for the end product for shaving. For stropping I can't give you a good video reference, I can tell you I have seen lots of bad ones. Gentle on the strop, smooth, spine leads the motion. No points for speed. I don't think you need a hone yet, but a Swaty is a nice addition. The Norton is designed to hone a blade from the other end (dull to sharp). The pasted strop and the Swaty from the end you'll be on (sharp to slightly pulling).

Usually the spine juts out along the edge and you don't hone the gold wash off you hone on the steel, this is incorportated in the design. WD40 smells great with Almond soap, what are you talking about? I just dry my razors, most guys use a dab of oil, machine oil, etc I think. Keep the razor open and dry for about 5 minutes, the water inside the scales is a problem. I oil it if I'm not going to look at it for more than 3 days.

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I've been looking at stereo microscopes over on the bay. I suspect the quality I can get there may be better than Radioshack special for not that much more money. Maybe. (Then on the other hand two of the ones I was watching just surpassed 100.00 and 200.00 respectively) Besides which, my wife already thinks I've gone off the deep end, so the microscope will not be for the razor, it will be an 'educational purchase for the kids' ;) They use microscopes in 3rd grade don't they?

I was curious about how the swaty compares to the Norton because I wasn't sure if it would be a redundant purchase. Ie if the swaty is a finer abrasive than an #8000 Norton would it be about the same as the 12000 grit shapton? The Shapton has the advantages of being available in a larger easier to use size (I think- I haven't seen any published swaty dimensions), new, cheap (40.00), and not having to rely on e-pray to aquire.

Well I'm with RichZ on the stropping after shaving, hopefully you'll see different opinions on many issues. I assume your real question is "Is it better to strop after shaving?" and I hope you see that my answer is "I don't know but I don't do it". To give you an even stranger view on hones I've decided to stop worrying about what grit they are and just focus on the results they produce. I would be shocked if you couldn't do a search on Swaty and not come up with a grit for it. Randy could probably tell you to the tenth degree. I prefer to just classify them as finishing hones. So I believe that for simplicity sake you only need one finishing hone and with .5 paste even that might get debated. I wouldn't spend $40 on a finishing hone, especially if I had .5 paste around. Now I don't know squat about the Shapton, but I would think a 12,000 grit hone would be the bomb diggity. As you can imagine I would put it right after the 8,000 Norton and before the .5 paste. To be real honest I would probably skip the 8,000 all together but I can get a razor near shaving with just a 4,000. But thats another story. I bought a good microscope but didn't like it. I thought the Radioshack was better. Why? Seemed to be better at looking at a razor and I didn't have to fight the Bisquick (gf daughter) for time on it. Although she kept begging me to nick myself so she could look at the blood. The radio shack microscope is $10. You can't even park in my town for $10, so the choice is yours, just don't complain if you can't see your blade well enough on some $100 whiz banger. Unless the blades are "singing" you don't need a stereo microscope...HA, sorry a little straight razor humor there!

I did a search for ya on Swaty and Randy says Swatys are 8-10K grit, thats 8,000 to 10,000.

I just got a new Dovo Bismarck 6/8 from Ray at Classic Shaving and he advised me to get some of the 1.0 diamond paste and put on one side of my paddle strop, then put .5 on the other. I did as he instructed and was able to get the razor hair popping sharp. One important thing I found was to use VERY LIGHT strokes when the razor was getting pretty sharp. Then I stropped it 30 times on an un-pasted strop and shaved with it and it worked great. I did have some problems with nicks, but I think that's my technique. Ray said that the Bismarcks have a reputation of coming from the factory with a sharp edge so that might be why I had such good luck. Good luck with your razor and sharpening.

Great work Smokey! I just bought a new B Lowe from Ray as well. It was shaving sharp! Wow. Raven, I'm wondering what part of the country (or world) your in, maybe you could PM or put it in your profile. BTW, "twirling" the blade is OK. It is raising the spine and slapping the strop you should really be worried about. Pressure as well according to most is bad juju. But lets not add any flare to your twirl. Maybe the word flip connotes a slower motion. Don't confuse practice and ability with the way you should start out. I still strop slow and soft most of the time. One thing I love about straight razors is it seems everything is so gentle or finite. I should clarify that stropping with a honing motion is self critiquing. You'll cut the strop bad.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Great work Smokey! I just bought a new B Lowe from Ray as well. It was shaving sharp! Wow.

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That's a sweet surprise. My B. Lowe needed to go to the hones for some serious work before it would shave well. Now it's all good and a real beauty. Keep that sucker dry man, or that blade and the gold WILL stain. It needs a little extra TLC.

Enjoy!

Thanx, and see I would have thought they were all shaving sharp! I'll dig it out of the drawer, its for Christmas and I was pretending I wasn't going to shave with it again until Xmas.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Well I'm with RichZ on the stropping after shaving, hopefully you'll see different opinions on many issues. I assume your real question is "Is it better to strop after shaving?" and I hope you see that my answer is "I don't know but I don't do it". To give you an even stranger view on hones I've decided to stop worrying about what grit they are and just focus on the results they produce. I would be shocked if you couldn't do a search on Swaty and not come up with a grit for it. Randy could probably tell you to the tenth degree. I prefer to just classify them as finishing hones. So I believe that for simplicity sake you only need one finishing hone and with .5 paste even that might get debated. I wouldn't spend $40 on a finishing hone, especially if I had .5 paste around. Now I don't know squat about the Shapton, but I would think a 12,000 grit hone would be the bomb diggity. As you can imagine I would put it right after the 8,000 Norton and before the .5 paste. To be real honest I would probably skip the 8,000 all together but I can get a razor near shaving with just a 4,000. But thats another story. I bought a good microscope but didn't like it. I thought the Radioshack was better. Why? Seemed to be better at looking at a razor and I didn't have to fight the Bisquick (gf daughter) for time on it. Although she kept begging me to nick myself so she could look at the blood. The radio shack microscope is $10. You can't even park in my town for $10, so the choice is yours, just don't complain if you can't see your blade well enough on some $100 whiz banger. Unless the blades are "singing" you don't need a stereo microscope...HA, sorry a little straight razor humor there!

I did a search for ya on Swaty and Randy says Swatys are 8-10K grit, thats 8,000 to 10,000.

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Yes I remember when I had a microsope when I was a kid, one of the experiments was to prick yourself with a pin and put the blood under the scope. I could never find the courage to deliberately poke myself with the pin though!
On the subject of before versus after, I've read so many different things. I've read the theory you have to let the edge grow by letting it rest. Now I know if you water it, it'll grow (rust that is). But has anyone with one of those high powered scopes actually seen evidence of this? Or is this an old barber's tale? I've also read that by letting it rest that the razor's edge acts like memory metal and straightens itself. (I'm curious if anyone has actually seen this too) On the other side I've read the theory that by stropping after, you remove all traces of water along the edge thus ensuring no microscopic rust gets a toehold. (Makes sense, though I think a dry cloth, a hairdryer and a squirt of wd40 might attain the same result) Finally I've read it doesn't matter either way. I've also had a barber tell me that the reason he strops so quickly is so that the edge gets heated by the strop! (However I did not get an explanation as to why this was a good thing)
Do the singing edged ones actually sing? I read something about plucking the edge and it makes a tone. I'd be afraid to try it, but I am curious what it would sound like.

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Originally Posted by Ravenflight

On the subject of before versus after, I've read so many different things. I've read the theory you have to let the edge grow by letting it rest. Now I know if you water it, it'll grow (rust that is). But has anyone with one of those high powered scopes actually seen evidence of this? Or is this an old barber's tale?

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In another thread entitled The Grand Experiment we are looking at the benefits of stropping after and initial results support the idea that it is good for extending the life of the edge.

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Originally Posted by Ravenflight

Do the singing edged ones actually sing? I read something about plucking the edge and it makes a tone. I'd be afraid to try it, but I am curious what it would sound like.

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Yeah, they kinda ring on the strop and sometimes during shaving too.

X

[QUOTE=Ravenflight
Do the singing edged ones actually sing? I read something about plucking the edge and it makes a tone. I'd be afraid to try it, but I am curious what it would sound like.[/QUOTE]

If you have a singing blade, you can try this by blowing sharply in the edge, it will produce ringing sound. Mind, not every full holow ground will sing, only the extra hollow... The one razor I had, and was able to do this was my Satinedge...

nenad

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Originally Posted by superfly

If you have a singing blade, you can try this by blowing sharply in the edge, it will produce ringing sound. Mind, not every full holow ground will sing, only the extra hollow... The one razor I had, and was able to do this was my Satinedge...

nenad

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Damn, now I'm going to have to buy a second razor. Wouldn't want the one I'm getting to get lonely singing all by itself. I wonder if the TI's and the Dovo's sing differently. I begin to see why they might need rest though if they sing and shave at the same time! :D Fortunately my birthday is in January. My wife got a beautiful diamond for her birthday (which she claims was singing to her, but that's a different story) so maybe she'll be feeling generous....

Your on the right track, atleast with you attitude. Most of your other questions are subjects which have not been proven. But I will caution you on this, one of the reasons most of us love straight razors is because they are tools and works of art. They are tools because it is not just a slab of steel. It is not just a slab of steel that is sharp either. It almost has additional, albeit non-moving, parts. There is much more to it. Its like a sculpture with purpose. A lot of this is counter-intuitive. I don't think anyone has ever actually disproven some of those "wives tales" either. I think heating the blade is good for shaving and stropping making the blade slightly more maleable. In fact, I sometimes hone with a heated blade with hot water. Also, some people will no doubt get better results stropping after a shave and some won't. This is because of how many passes they make or how well they cleaned the blade the last time, or their stropping technique. Its really like asking the question "Is it bad to down shift?" And someone replying "Well, yes and no and maybe" So is it bad for a new driver to down shift? Yes, it could be, even more so for the new driver than the experienced one. Or the guy that says "No" and watches you drop his transmission from a "miss" shift.

I would always recommend a second razor, but its more for convience. When one blade is a little dull you have a back up. I'm always going into the bathroom with two, just in case. I'm sure a real honemeister just walks in with one, cuz he knows it's wicked sharp. Me, mine are usually just sharp.

Those wives tales. . . if I told you what I think some metalurgist will just jump in here and rip me a new one. But I choose to believe them, not because they make sense but because of what happens when I try to shave with the same blade two days in a row. And I want to believe it, and yet I like the mystery behind it. Its like believing in the force. I strop on linen first too, wait till you see what that conversation can start. I think that is one thing you should decide for yourself. And, get yourself a hone and only strop before shaving. That way you can hone just a little more often...trust me, the practice is more important than stretching out the blade life. We'll see if you can follow my advice though (stropping is actually a lot of fun).

I suggest reading all this stuff and trying it all (with the exception of scything motions...lol) Its meant to be fun and a learning activity as well. There are atleast 10 guys on this site that are truely experts in this stuff and every once in a while they will just shoot off the real answer, but in the meantime its fun to chat about it. So, to answer your question. Yes, I believe those wives tales, because I choose to believe. I let my razors rest, I do not strop after shaving, I use linen first. I even use a touch of pressure on the strops and hones sometimes when no one is looking. I do not use soap, only the finest creams and I do not use aftershave. . . ever. I also downshift.

Well, I've been doing a lot of reading, here and at various other sites before I finally dived in. All that reading left me with more questions. Unfortunately I didn't ask any till I discovered there was actually a Mac friendly version of this site (why this www.straightrazorplace.com/forums2 version isn't posted anywhere on the front page of www.straightrazorplace.com under a tab for Mac users I don't know). For the past couple months I was reading the Yahoo healthgroups version without any organized grouping of threads- just reading thousands of posts as they came in- trying to follow it all. Then I stumbled over here and the forums actually work and everything is grouped semi-logically. Mac straight-razor Nirvana! Who knew?
Anyway... Now I'm here.
I figure if I can't go shopping (having sent the last of my disposable income off to Ray) might as well join the fray and get some questions answered.

That sounds like a good idea. Its odd that we would have this conversation without anyone else commenting. I don't want you to think that my comments are "correct". Just my opinions. You'll get more comments, its slower during the holidays. Some of this stuff you just gotta try for yourself. Its really the practice that is the key and the quality of the shave. For example I use a little pressure (just enough to feel a pull) when I strop. The quality of my shave tells ME that is what I should do. Others will tell you never to do that, and their correct. So what do I do? I get the highest quality shave I can get, regardless.

I suspect it's because none of my posts appear on the other 2 versions of the forums. I know they're not appearing over on the Yahoo healthgroups. Just as well really. Perhaps by the time they make the main forum Mac compatible I'll know what I'm doing, have become a true Honemeister, and only the select few lucky ones (that log in here) will have reached the conclusion that I'm an idiot instead. :D

Yea, well its ok, I've been at it for two years and I'm still in the same boat. :-) Those other sites aren't really very good. They are sort of the baseline testbeds of this site. Both were created by Lynn. How a newbie would learn without the search function of this site is beyond me. The odd thing about this site is all the people are just so "normal" and cool. Some of those other sites are like visiting an asylum.

I like this site better because the topics are grouped and the search function works much better. But one other thing that I REALLY like is that there are no political diatribes on this site. The site's theme is str8 shaving, not politics!