Last hope of a Desperate Man!!

I am utterly discouraged. Ive been shaving with a straight razor for 2 months now and still havent gotten a close comfortable shave. I have tried everything to get a comfortable shave but i still sit here typing with a red, bumpy face and general discomfort. My shave:

1) I soak a brush in hot water and take a shower, concentrating on warming my face
2) I get out, pat my face dry, apply Shave secret preshave oil, and lather up. Creams/soaps i have used are

• TOBS Almond
• SPEICK
• D.R. Harris Marlbourough
• GFT Almond, Rose, GFT, Sandalwood
• Frasers Polar ICE
• Kiss My Face Menthol and Unscented
• Williams and Van Der Hagen soaps

3)I strop on my Vintage Blades brand red latigo and nylon webbing strop

4) i use a straight, Dovo High Carbon Steel 6/8, Boker brand 5/8, wester bros 4/8, and shave WTG and XTG. I pull the skin, i lightly pull the blade across my face and according to my hair growth. All my blades are very sharp, theres another shave guy here in columbia, sc that helps me a lot and sharpens my blades with a coticle.
5) i use either an aftershave balm or splash. Ive used

• All Boosters
• Wesley and Ross Lime Balm
• Old Spice
• Brut
• Bath and Body Works men after shave gel
• Witch hazel straight, or mixed with cornhuskers lotion.

I have done this process either every or everyother morning for the past 2 months. I have had nothing but redness, bumps, small nicks and overall discomfort. I have watched lynn's and others videos of how they shave. In general, this is what im asking:

1) Does it take this long to truly get it down, or am i doing something wrong?
2) Have you ever heard of someones skin just being too sensitive for a str8 razr?
3) Is there some huge technique thing im missing out on?

Please give me something guys. Im going crazy. I LOOOVE straight razors and the idea of a close comfortable shave that not everyone knows, but i cant seem to grasp it.

P.S. Does anyone know of a video thats absolutley perfect as far as shaving technique goes? ive watched a lot of numbskulls with shaving videos and all i got was a "how to be a badass" lesson.

Everyone's different. Some guys pick it up fast. I was a little slower. The time frame varies, but i can understand why you're getting discouraged if you've seen no real improvement after two months!

Your kit is good, so that won't be an issue.

Could be that you need more in the way of prep. Try letting a hair conditioner go to work on the stubble for a couple of minutes. Rinse it all off & lather up.

When you get the technique right, a straight should be very gentle on the skin, if not the most gentle method of shaving.

With great respect to your honing mentor, It just may be that what is great for him, just isn't quite enough for you. Shave ready for one man isn't shave ready across the board. Consider sending one out to a honemiester, just as a comparison. My honing is fine, for me, it's been fine for the guy's I've leant blades to, or sold to, but i've always got that feeling that the pro's would get it keener!

Good video's are:

Bladewielders.
It's tongue in cheek, but he's highly skilled.

JockeysPart 1 & Part 2

Xman's for one handed technique

There are other's, but these are a good place to start.

One bit of advice. It sounds like you may be trying to get too close. Back off. Do one pass shaves WTG for a while till your skin settles down & then gradually work on the closeness. There are places i just don't go close. The stubble goes in all directions & more than one pass & i've got ingrowns. I've accepted that after years of trying & that's just the way it is for me.
:gl:

It is hard to tell. As your blades are sharpened by someone who knows what he is doing I presume sharpness is not the problem.

I can think of a couple of things.
1st: you use too much pressure while shaving.
2nd: you dull a perfectly sharp razor when stropping. Make sure your razor is flat on the leather, you turn it round keeping the spine on the leather. Keep the strop taut and do not apply too much pressure.

Another thing: hones sometimes leave a harsh edge. You can soften it by using a Cr2O3 pasted strop.

Hope this helps.

While I'm no expert by any means having only been shaving continuously with a straight for a week or so (and maybe half a dozen shaves with a straight in the 3 months prior). I did notice similar issues with my first few shaves. My problem was that I was using way too much angle on the blade. Try flattening the blade out so that the spine is just barely off your skin. What I thought was about 30 degrees was probably closer to 45ish and it was giving me a quite harsh shave. As soon as I flattened it out to a proper angle, the comfort level went way up for me and I got a closer shave with less irritation and razor burn afterward.

I'm about two months in myself, similar kit, also shave everyday or every other day, and am still getting quite a bit of irritation on my neck.

After two months, I am just now reaching a point where I have enough experience to recognize some of the finer details that are actually causing it - such as...

• Pressure - I thought I was using a light touch. Then I saw another member's signature line which said a barber told him to flex his fingers when holding the razor for better feedback and lighter pressure control. Tried it and was AMAZED at how heavy a touch I had really been using. Now I can actually feel when I've hit the 'line of grain change' on my neck without crossing through it - which had been causing slight pulling and adding to my irritation
• Angle - thought I was using a consistent angle on all parts of my face. Not only did I realize I wasn't being as consistent with my angle as I thought - I discovered that different angle work better on different parts of my face: i.e. one spine width on my cheeks but only half a spine width on my neck
• Angle of Attack AND Stretching - two quarter-size hollows on either side of my Adam's apple were causing me immense trouble - until, just this week, I discovered stretching the skin there upward instead of toward the ear and using an upward sweep with the blade instead of downward were the key to these little trouble spots
• Stropping - on some days, or on some blades, I was using a little too much pressure - not enough to cause the blade to drag on my beard but enough to cause a little more irritation
• Blades - for whatever reason, some cause me more irritations than others (I discovered this when I picked up a few different ones from the same honemeister)

In fact, it was just this week that something started to click and I suddenly began to notice ALL of these little areas for improvement.

The thing is, while it all sounds complicated, it isn't - it just takes time for our minds to consciously, or subconsciously, pick up on this stuff and make the necessary little corrections and turn them into habit.

In other words, some people get it quick. Some people have more sensitive skin... denser beards ... have more complex growth/grain patters... etc. to deal with so it takes them a bit longer to discover their personal technique and get it down.

It may be that you just need a little more time for it to all really start to 'click'.

Even though I'm starting to notice areas where I can make little changes that deliver big improvement, I still wouldn't be surprised if it takes another four to six months before I'm getting 100% irritation free shaves... let alone consistent BBS over my entire face.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't give up hope yet - maybe you just need to give yourself a little more time before you begin to see real leaps in improvement.

Something different to try. Go back to basics. Just do the areas between your sideburns and jawlines using WTG only. Do that until you are totally comfortable with the razor. You will not get the BBS using this only. But right now you aren't getting one anyway. When you have mastered this technique (and comfortable with the pressures and angles) you can start to add XG, AGT, and new areas of your face. Take your time. It took me a month to finally put it altogether... :gl:

When you were using other shaving tools did you get a close and comfortable shave without the skin issues ? If the answer is yes than I would say it is either, as Ben says, a sharpness issue, or as Kees and grubbah said, a technique issue ... or a combination of the two. :shrug:

With a truly shave ready razor and the proper technique a straight razor should perform as well or better than any other shaving tool IME. Keep trying and lighten up on pressure. If proper stretching is done with a sharp enough razor it isn't necessary to force it through the whiskers. If you hold the razor as I mention in my sig line you will avoid nicks for the most part. If the razor is effortlessly gliding through the whiskers on both sides of the chin it is sharp enough IME. That is all I know. :gl:

You're getting some pretty good advice here and you would be wise to try it. I would just add one thing: you may actually have an allergy or sensitivity to glycerin which is in all those products you used. In fact it’s in darn near everything that’s marketed for shaving. That sensitivity will cause your skin to swell ever so slightly which will affect the shave negatively and cause or exacerbate the irritations you’re getting.

Get your blade professionally honed. Then try using Noxzema as your shaving cream – plain old Noxzema – nothing else. Wash your face prior to shaving using a detergent bar like Dove Sensitive which does not have glycerin in it. Do this for about a month. If your condition does not improve then it’s got to be your technique. Hope that helps.

Best Regards,
EL

I'm not an expert, but having just put together some of these building blocks in the past few months, I can say that I walked a mile in your shoes, and I've found one thing, and one thing ONLY, is really responsible for any variation or disappointment that I've had with SR shaving . . . THE BLADE ANGLE.

The simple truth is that some blade angles work and some don't, period. Yet even when you are using the wrong blade angle, it can still feel like you are actually shaving (when instead you are just scraping the blade over your whiskers). So you keep lathering and scraping, lathering and scraping, and nothing seems to happen. It's not the moisturizers or the stropping that is holding you back at this point -- it is shaving technique, and more specifically blade angle that is the problem.

Like others have said, you have to reduce the angle drastically when you are shaving against the grain or even sometimes across the grain. I find this very tricky to do, because I don't like going against the grain to begin with, and making the angle shallower only seems to make things more difficult. But IT DOES ACTUALLY WORK.

If you want proof of this point, try this experiment. Use your SR for the first pass WTG. Then relather and pick up your favorite DE, with a nice fresh blade, and use that for the second pass ATG. Now, I bet you will have just about the cleanest, smoothest shave you've ever gotten, and it's not too hard to see why. Your blades are plenty sharp, your pre-shave routine is fine, and even when you are shaving WTG, there's plenty of room for error when it comes to the blade angle. But with ATG, you need that really close, really shallow angle, and it so happens that DEs are set up perfectly to give you exactly that angle.

Anyway, that's my guess for what is going wrong, and I hope it helps.

+1 on all the good advice so far!

Like they said, a VERY light touch is needed and make sure you are stretching real well.

It might also pay to play with the angle a little bit, if you haven't already.

I don't know who you're having sharpen your razor, but if they're not getting real sharp, or if the stropping is dulling the edge a little, that could be part of it as well.

How often are you having to get your razors sharpened?

The only thing I might add to the advice given already, is to see if you live close to any experienced member or someone who is having success at straight razor shaving and see if that person will let you visit and actually see what you are doing and offer assistance based on their observations. We have found in many cases that this really helps.

Best of luck,

Lynn

My dear Zee,

The advice you have received thus far is from a wide spectrum of experienced straight razor shavers, including the true master of the art. As a straight razor pilgrim myself, I can only add one more important thing: If straight razor shaving means that much to you, keep trying with the tenacity of a shark.

The great French writer Gustave Flaubert often would stay up all night just to get a sentence or a paragraph right. And he did okay.

Just keep trying — with patience and tenacity. Eventually you will master the art. Good luck.

Regards,

Obie

Thanks everybody. THats some great advice guys.
With previous razors, like a Mach 3 with barbasol, i never had any bad irritation, but i also didnt go up or across. The glycerin isnt the problem because ive made that uber lather stuff before. I havent messed around with the blade angle toooo much. honestly i thought i had all that down after week 2. Im gunna let my face settle for a bit then pick up with the blade angle expirementation. Thanks everyone for your help.

With regards to the angle, start with the spine two widths from the face. That should equate to around 30 degrees. If that doesn't work, move a little each way & see if it gets better.

One thing I found helped me when I started, is to just concentrate on my cheeks like others have said. But take it one step further - concentrate on one cheek only (recommend the same side as your dominant hand). Do a WTG pass, XTG pass, and ATG pass. Keep at this until you get BBS. Once you get BBS on that side, then move on to the other side.

It seems like a completely backwards way of learning, but it will teach you the correct angles in an area that is relatively easy to get right.

I think once you start to work out correct angles on the first cheek, and see some progress, you will stick with it. :gl:

One last thing, I have found an alum block to be the best thing to use post shave - others swear by witch hazel type products, but they dont work as well for me. For a $8 investment, it might be worth checking out.

What about your angle? For me, redness and bumps means that I went too steep with one or more passes.

I think the angle is the problem. Im going to do the 30 degree angle and progress to the 45. The concept of expirementing with the angle honestly hadnt crossed my mind yet

Zee,

With respect to the angle of razor to face, I think less is more. Keeping a protractor handy and in use while shaving can be devilishly difficult so I'd suggest you not worry about numbers. Rather look to see if you have about one spine's thickness of space between the spine and your face. I have no idea what that angle is, but it works just dandy for me. When it gets greater than that margin, the razor is more apt to do mischief.

When I do a second pass, that margin is now about half the thickness of the spine and two passes is all I do. Since my hair is gray I don't have to worry about 1700 hours shadow. ;)

:gl:

take it easy and good luck,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

Im going to do the 30 degree angle and progress to the 45.

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I'd avoid going as far as 45. You're asking for an uncomfortable shave. 30 works well for most on the 1st pass. Subsequent passes may benefit from tightening it up a little.

Have a look at this, it's in the Wiki.

I must have picked it up fast Iv never had a lot of problems. I nick myself but even experienced shavers do I'm sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

I think the angle is the problem. Im going to do the 30 degree angle and progress to the 45. The concept of expirementing with the angle honestly hadnt crossed my mind yet

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egads no! 30 degrees is probably the most angle you want. The chart posted above by ben.mid is really a good chart to go by. More angle does not necessarily equal closer shave. Well maybe it does but only because you're removing more skin than hair. Thats not the goal however.

All I can offer is what I use as a final sharpness test, after stropping and before shaving. A truly shave ready razor should shave off the tops of arm hair, when the blade is passed through it at about a 30 degree angle. When my razors are able to do that, I get a nice shave and only have to use very short, very light strokes. If not, they go back to the strop or even to the hones. FWIW.

Egads, this sounds familiar. While I am no seasoned vet at SR's I can say my ultimate issues were blade sharpness and angle. I learned this after keeping at it. I still go to my DE periodically but... Hang in there... one of the members here told me millions of men used these things in the old days... I just had to learn to get over myself and keep at it. Good luck and don't give up. There are many degrees on the learning curve!

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen any mention of stretching yet. I'm starting week 4 with the SR, and my shaves didn't start getting really close and irritation-free until I got more diligent about stretching every patch of skin that I was shaving. In my VERY limited experience, I would say that even if the blade angle is perfect, if your skin isn't stretched, it's not going to come out well.

Hope that helps.

Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dward

Something different to try. Go back to basics. Just do the areas between your sideburns and jawlines using WTG only. Do that until you are totally comfortable with the razor. You will not get the BBS using this only. But right now you aren't getting one anyway. When you have mastered this technique (and comfortable with the pressures and angles) you can start to add XG, AGT, and new areas of your face. Take your time. It took me a month to finally put it altogether... :gl:

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I have only been straight shaving since Sept. and this was the exact way I learned. I did two sometimes three WTG passes each time I shaved till Dec. just learning the angles, and hand-arm -face-stretching positions. Lots of youtube watching and Lynn's video is what I give alot of my success to. I now get BBS with two passes, WTG and ATG.
As far as sharpness goes, I shave right off my Norton 8K. I recently bought a C12K but have yet to shave from it. So I would believe you are in good shape with the coticle as long as your honing technique is good. I personally find that my best shavers will pop the top of arm hairs off when about 1/4 inch off skin.
Good Luck

How's it going Zee? Seeing any better results yet?

A really hot towel on the face helps too.

In the spirit of testing the variables, it might be worth sending one of your razors to a different honemeister just in case....

-Chief

Firstly grow a beard for a while to let face heal, or at least use alternate shave method not so close.
What works for me.
1) stretch skin.
2) light, no pressure.
3) short stokes.
4) Shave angle - to great and you will scrape skin.
5) Scary sharp edge, crox touch up every 3rd, 4th shave.
All your preping and aftershave sound spot on to me.
The biggest difference came for me when I learned how to scythe which is considered an advanced technique. It did take me 3 years to get it down and still get the occasional nick (it's up to you).
I did switch for a while to using a shavette cos they are always sharp and unforgiving if you don't lighten the pressure, makes you learn

I have the exact same problem as you do. All of my other shaving methods since I started shaving left my face felling like ground hamburger for a few days. I tried everything.
I have only been shaving for a couple weeks with a stra8, but the advise to stay with the basics if really key. Stick with the basic WTG on your whole face until you have perfected it. Then shave XTG until you have mastered it. And then, and only if your face can handle it, try ATG.
I'm still suffering from your problem and I hope that I can shave my whole face ATG every time w/out any problems, but right now i'm just taking it slow.
Good luck.. and please let me know if it gets better cause I can get all the reassurance and feedback I can get.

I have very sensitive skin. I read on here somewhere to always do a final rinse of cold water after done. That has helped alot for me in reducing any irritation i weas getting from a shave.

Sometimes (which is rare these days) when I've overdone things for whatever reason, I'll cut back on shave frequency if possible. Also I'll have cold water shaves and use a product from a store in the UK called Lush which is mainly shea butter ( the name escapes me ). On these occassions to hell with closeness, I just go for comfort. The shave is good enough for every day but better than you might expect.
Gives the old chops time to heal, also I'll use shavette very lightly if there's any doubt about my staights sharpness.

Hi.
I am a complete rookie at this myself, so I cannot say anything that hasn't already been said in this great thread of advice, except for what did help me getting a BBS for the first time yesterday:)
I went out and bought myself a Barber miror, you know the one that magnifyes 2,5 times.
I see just fine, but with that mirrors extreme close-up I actually got better angle and less pressure for some reason.
Hope you are still hanging in there and finally achieve a problem free shave real soon.

Most of this may have been said before. For what it's worth, here's my advice:

1. If you suspect that the razor is the problem, send it to Lynn or Don at Straight Razor Designs for rehoning. In general, people seem to be very happy with the results when they try this.

2. If the after shave treatment is the problem, I would suggest trying Trumper's Skin Food. It is very soothing, and feels great!

3. Be gentle when stropping. Try less pressure, but more strokes on the strop.

I think Deckard's suggestion of trying a shavette is a great idea to figure out whether it's your technique or the blade that needs work.

It's easy to dull a straight by not stropping properly. If the shavette seems to work like magic, you've solved the problem... likewise if you're still having the same issues you'll know it's a technique flaw.

You can do this Dude, and it looks like the whole team's got your back :tu

I have only been at it since the beginning of December but I will tell you of some of the adjustments I have made to my ritual.

HAIR CONDITIONER in the beard. I do this in the shower after washing my face with sudsy soap. I let it sit on my beard 3 or 4 min while I start to make my lather. After I rinse the conditioner off I use conditioner again. THIS TIME leaving it on my face as I exit the shower and dry.

Prior to even entering the shower I have heated up about a quart and a half of water in a kettle. Part of this water goes in the bowl I use to make my lather....adds a nice warming effect to the lather. BUT the remainder of the hot water I use on plain white washcloths to soak my face which STILL has the second round of conditioner on it from the shower. I usually apply the hot towels until the water is gone. THEN I am ready to apply the lather...

SKIN STRETCHING: I have found this to be key to not only getting a close shave but also to avoid those annoying nicks...soon a I would feel one I would be like Dammit forgot to stretch the area...9 times out of ten anyways. Its just habit now.

COLD WATER after the shave is refreshing to me. I do it alot (like for 3 or 4 min if I have the time lol) because I enjoy the refreshing feeling. I am thinking of ice water even lol. Just to see. But yes, cool/cold water def stopped alot of irritation I noticed on my first couple shaves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

Thanks everybody. THats some great advice guys.
With previous razors, like a Mach 3 with barbasol, i never had any bad irritation, but i also didnt go up or across.

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If you've gone from a Mach3 (and only ever shaved WTG) to a straight, I think the learning curve would be very steep indeed.

You could be applying way more pressure than you think. Cartridges force you to bear down hard, in order to get them to pivot on your face.

I spent 6 months with a DE, and with all I learnt about blade angle and pressure, I simply couldn't complete my first straight shave, nor on any other subsequent attempts.

So I've sent mine to be re-honed, even though the seller honed all his own razors and re-did this one before sending it.

I'd definitely send one of your razors to a well respected honer - then at least you remove one variable from the process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

I am utterly discouraged. Ive been shaving with a straight razor for 2 months now and still havent gotten a close comfortable shave. I have tried everything to get a comfortable shave but i still sit here typing with a red, bumpy face and general discomfort. My shave:

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We hope you are letting your face heal adequately before the next straight-razor shave. I have keratosis pilarus, perpetually bumpy skin. I get mild sycosis from practically every shave.. until I started shaving everyday since the previous week's experiment began. I remember the one time I did two shaves in a row with a str8, I left the more difficult areas so burned it lasted two days. Wasn't painful but looked awful. I didn't try that again until little over a week ago (got my first straight on Christmas Eve of 2007).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

1) I soak a brush in hot water and take a shower, concentrating on warming my face
2) I get out, pat my face dry, apply Shave secret preshave oil, and lather up.

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Have you looked at Kyle's highly acclaimed pre-shave prep thread on Badge & Blade? I found that interesting. Pre-shave oils before shaving are not recommended, even thought to be counterproductive! Controversial and not industry friendly but worthy of consideration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

5) i use either an aftershave balm or splash. Ive used

• All Boosters
• Wesley and Ross Lime Balm
• Old Spice
• Brut
• Bath and Body Works men after shave gel
• Witch hazel straight, or mixed with cornhuskers lotion.

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Have you tried post-shave treatments with alcohol-free products? Alcohol, while sterilizing, maybe exacerbating the irritation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

I have done this process either every or everyother morning for the past 2 months. I have had nothing but redness, bumps, small nicks and overall discomfort. I have watched lynn's and others videos of how they shave. In general, this is what im asking:

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Maybe take a break and incorporate a cleanser twice a day to reduce the bumps? I know if I have the nodules and they're large they are at additional risk of continued irritation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zee

1) Does it take this long to truly get it down, or am i doing something wrong?
2) Have you ever heard of someones skin just being too sensitive for a str8 razr?
3) Is there some huge technique thing im missing out on?

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I think it's possible to have skin that's simply too sensitive. I thought I had a skin oversensitivity problem but my current experiment is so far a success (Str8-Edge Shaving & Follicle Bump Woes).