Ode to the Christmas DOVO :-(

Well Merry Christmas to all...... For weeks I have been looking forward to this day for many reasons but one in particular was a present I had asked Santa to get for me.... A New old stock 7/8 Dovo from Vintage Blades.

I have struggled and struggled for the last few weeks with shaving. I have had a awful time keeping my razors sharp (Learning to hone correctly) and have talked to several board members here.

First to help me was Sham..... He sent me a PM a few weeks back and offered to help me over the phone. We have talked just about every day since and he has even honed a razor for me. I sent my sharpest to him and he said it was "too sharp" and honed it correctly. I had over-used diamond paste according to him and over honed it.

I have talked to Lynn on the phone several times and he has been VERY helpful and given me several pointers. I know how busy he is right now and will leave him alone until after the first of the year.

I have also talked to Alan Davis and he has been tutoring me with learning the correct stroke among other things. We are talking weekly and he has helped me greatly. He currently has two of my blades to analyze and correct if need be. Hope to talk to him after the holidays.....

Earlier this week, I talked to Glen (GSSIXGUN?) and he gave me several pointers. It helped me get the first shave ready razor off my new Jnat. Still having problems however....

I have been shaving with these straights since September. I have never been a wet shaving guy but after my electric razor was giving up, I became facisnated with shaving with my hunting knife back in July. I was surfing the net and eventually found this site and bought my first Straight.... a M Jung #80 from hi_bud_gl on 9/15.

I have collected 6-7 so far and have been trying to hone them as well. I just love the process and have really been challenged with it all. For some reason, I just can't seem to get more than three shaves from any of my razors. I got really frustrated back in October and decided that I just would have to break down and buy a new razor.

Well, I received my Jung back from Sham the first of this week and also sharpened my Joseph Allen on Monday night. I stropped up my JA on Tuesday morning and left the Jung un-touched. Well I had a nice shave from my JA and used the Jung as a reference from time to time as I shaved. My JA wasn't quite as sharp but still close. Each time it has 60+ laps on the strop and it shaved me nicely for two days. The third time it just wasn't sharp enough to cut well. On the third day the Jung wasn't as keen as it had been so I decided to strop it. I stropped it 30 laps on canvas and leather but it wasn't much better. I tried to shave with it but it wasn't quite enough for a comfortable shave on my neck. It worked well on my cheeks but my neck has to be XTG and was pulling too much. Next day was Christmas...... so I finished up with a safety razor.

Well today......much anticipation. Opened all the presents and found my beautiful 7/8 NOS DOVO my wonderful wife got from Vintage Blades. After all the presents had been opened I retreated to the bathroom for a much anticipated shave. I flipped open the razor and found that it wouldn't grab arm hair above the skin. I washed my face with hot water and made up some lather. I let the lather soak in while I stropped three razors..... My J Allen, M Jung and new DOVO. With the HAHT (Hovering arm hair test) the Jung was best, followed by the JA and the DOVO wouldn't even catch a hair! :confused::confused:

Well I decided to go ahead and shave. The Jung did fine on my cheeks but was too uncomfortable on my neck to finish. The J Allen didn't even work as well. This was shave number three or four and it wasn't up to the task. I tried the DOVO and was shocked when it wouldn't even cut hair. No cigar...... How disappointing. While trying to muster a smile to my wife who had bought it for me, I finished shaving with my safety razor and cleaned up. :boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:

Now what should I do?????

Hoping for a BBS shave, Barry

Hi, Barry,

Could it be that you are trying to do too many things all at once? A few things to came to my mind having read your story (and thanks, by the way, for providing sufficient detail - that does not happen as often as it should):

1. The razors honed by people known to be proficient in honing should be shave ready. More to the point, chances are that at least one of them will be. If none of them hold their edge for more than two shaves, it must be something you do. Which could be any of the following:
2. Stropping: Are you 100% sure that your stropping technique is really good? Razor stropping - Straight Razor Place Wiki is pretty much feature complete in my opinion (massive thanks to Bart for the latest graphics, they are really quite helpful). Additionally, a look at the old barber's manual JimmyHAD keeps linking to might be worth a look; it is in the help file section of the Wiki: Help Files - Straight Razor Place Wiki.
3. Preparation: Nobody like to be told that his beard preparation might not be up to speed, not even me :) But I recently re-discovered Castle Forbes' "The Pre Shave", and it works extremely well for my beard. Might be worth going through the preparation section of the Wiki again, looking for potential gaps in your routine.
4. Honing: I will not even go there. You have spoken to some of the most knowledgeable members on this site, and you should be fine. The only thing I would like to add is that if you find the chance to actually sit down with somebody who is proficient in honing, do it - it makes all the difference.

But really, the problem cannot be with the razors (alone). Personally, I would check my preparation (including the products you use, and a firm understanding of what quality lather is), and the stropping.

Good luck, and keep us updated,
Robin

Robin,

Thanks for the reply...... I know I could have left a few things out but I tried to explain as much as possible without so much that nobody would read it :)

I can't imagine it is my stropping but it could be. I have posted a video here and got some feedback. It may not be the best yet but can't imagine it is destroying my blades.

It could be my prep...... i haven't tried steam towels yet. My lather is hot and thick. I do uberlather with glycerin, Vintage Blades cream, and SRD soap.

My blades don't even come close to the HAHT that a DE blade will do. A DE will GRAB hair... my best blade will grab hair here and there.

Keep them coming......

Barry

Barry,

I'm sure somebody else will chime in shortly, but I am at a complete loss as to what your problem might be. If Lynn and Sham honed those razors, chances that they are not shave ready are, well, slim. Very slim.

Good luck,
Robin

I agree with Robin, the razor alone seems unlikely to be the issue. One thing that may contribute to the difficulty is your angle of attack. I struggled getting the angles right for a bit when I started.

Another issue may be that you aren't using the canvas part of your strop enough (from your post, I gathered that you were primarily using the leather except when the edge had shown signs of deteriorating; is that right?). I've found that daily linen/horsehide stropping has made a tremendous improvement in my edge maintenance (I do 30 linen/horsehide before and 15 linen/horsehide after every shave).

Best of luck with figuring out the issues. Enjoy the journey, Sir. :gl:

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Originally Posted by richmondesi

I agree with Robin, the razor alone seems unlikely to be the issue. One thing that may contribute to the difficulty is your angle of attack. I struggled getting the angles right for a bit when I started. ........ :gl:

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I have tried varying the angles. Actually I use different angles in various areas and passes. I know that affects things but I don't know if that would help in this case. My stropping has been 20-30 passes on the woven side (Vintage Blades strop) and then 50 light pressure and 30 or so no pressure laps on latigo leather. Have tried scything motion here and there but it doesn't seem to help much.

I have managed to get some of my blades in the "scary sharp" range with diamond paste and they feel GREAT to me.... Just don't last very long. However my current method isn't lasting very long either so maybe I should just try sharper????

I know I have rapid facial growth..... Longest BBS shave is about 12 hours before stubble shows up. I don't know if I have coarse facial hair (Never compared ;-)) but I do know I like a sharp blade.

Barry

My personal thoughts, I think you are trying to do too much at once, Barry.

I didn't start honing for months. I still don't strop on canvas or use pastes regularly. I don't do anything with varying pressures during stropping. I don't "play with angles" while shaving. I don't do scything (unless it's something that natrually evolved from my technique - what I mean is I don't try to imitate advanced techniques that others post about).

I think it may be benificial to you to put off all that stuff until you can consistantly get good shaves with shave ready razors that have been honed by people you trust. If edges are not sharp enough after 3 shaves, that is not a good sign. It makes me think either your technique (prep, stropping, shaving, razor care, or any combination therein) is not up to snuff OR you have very very high standards for what "shave ready" means.

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Originally Posted by bjanzen

Well I had a nice shave from my JA and used the Jung as a reference from time to time as I shaved. My JA wasn't quite as sharp but still close. Each time it has 60+ laps on the strop and it shaved me nicely for two days. The third time it just wasn't sharp enough to cut well. On the third day the Jung wasn't as keen as it had been so I decided to strop it. I stropped it 30 laps on canvas and leather but it wasn't much better.

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I remember looking at your stropping video, and it looked nice enough.
But somethings not quite right here. That Jung, honed by Sham, shaved well. No surprise, 'cause Sham knows his business. There's no reason why it would stop shaving so well after as little as 2 shaves. Hence, there's definitely something going on that has an adverse effect on your razors.
Just to make sure: you do dry them carefully yet thoroughly after each shave, do you? Corrosion, even at invisible stage can render an edge dull pretty easily.

For now, I would try to stay away from that diamond paste. It's fast acting stuff. Capable of great things, I'm sure. But also quick to compromise your edges if you use it without knowing very well how little it takes.

What you need, imho, is one shaveready razor. I assure you that it will yield at least a dozen of good shaves, without any other treatment than decent stropping. Provided that you haven't touch the Jung with any hones or abrasives, I advice you to take that one and start stropping it on the linen. Strop 100 laps. Repeat on Leather. Take a rest in between, if you feel that 'll help doing better strokes. Recheck with your "hover test". A razor that severs arm hairs above skin level is certainly sharp enough to shave with. Time to start trusting the razor. The rest is skill. Skill that your hands won't learn if you keep second guessing different razors, different hones, different tutors.
A few months from now, you'll be surprised how a less than super sharp blade can still provide a decent shave in your by then trained hands.

On the same note: stop expecting DE-performance of your straight razor. It's a different thing. The merits of a straight razor lie not exactly at the same fields as those of a commercially sharpened and teflon coated thin sheet of steel attached in a holder.

Kind regards,
Bart.

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Originally Posted by Bart

....... That Jung, honed by Sham, shaved well. No surprise, 'cause Sham knows his business. There's no reason why it would stop shaving so well after as little as 2 shaves. Hence, there's definitely something going on that has an adverse effect on your razors.
Just to make sure: you do dry them carefully yet thoroughly after each shave, do you? Corrosion, even at invisible stage can render an edge dull pretty easily..

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Bart,

Actually I only stropped that Jung today for the first time. I had just been using it here and there to compare to my other J Allen to see if it was fading. It had a light stropping today and nothing else. I will try to shave with it tomorrow again and see how it does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

For now, I would try to stay away from that diamond paste. It's fast acting stuff.

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I am...... I want to get more durability. Maybe that lies in my technique.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

What you need, imho, is one shaveready razor. I assure you that it will yield at least a dozen of good shaves, without any other treatment than decent stropping. ........

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I was trying to keep that as a reference razor and hone my JA..... was trying to eliminate the stropping variable. Maybe I just have to trust my stropping too.... ;-)

Thanks for the advice. I have been wanting my razors to slice a comfortably as a DE. Maybe the the cut is different. It seems like a less that sharp edge pulls and causes all kinds of irritation on my skin.

In a few months I am sure I will look back and laugh at all of this....

Barry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjanzen

Actually I only stropped that Jung today for the first time. I had just been using it here and there to compare to my other J Allen to see if it was fading. It had a light stropping today and nothing else. I will try to shave with it tomorrow again and see how it does.

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This will tell you something about your stropping.
You have a little used razor of known shaveready-ness. It 'should' be easily restored to that state.
If you are unsuccessful, maybe a close look under magnification will guide you to a solution.

Hi Barry,

Based on the date you joined SRP, you (and I) are in the start-up phase. I agree entirely with the folks who suggested you're trying too many variables too fast. When I (re)started DE shaving a year ago, the advice I got was to just work on one variable at a time. Without that, my shave wouldn't be repeatable enough to sample different blades and soaps/creams. And I didn't have to worry about honing and stropping on top of everything else.

My vote is to work on your prep first. The softer your beard is, the more of a fighting chance your razor has. There is an abundance of info on preps here and in other wet shaving Wikis. One technique recently debated here is "Kyle's Prep" over on Badger and Blade. Give it a try; YMMV.

How-to: Pre-Shave Prep - Badger & Blade

Best regards,
Don P

Might check the SRP wiki Prep

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Originally Posted by richmondesi

Might check the SRP wiki Prep

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Great reference. I hadn't explored that part of the wiki. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by richmondesi

Might check the SRP wiki Prep

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Been there...... Added the hot towel to my prep this morning. May have helped a little. I guess I have a coarser beard than most. I don't really have any way to compare ;-) I don't have the dark heavy look of a Greek because I have freckles and fair skin but I do have rapid growth and thick goatee.

The shave this morning was smooth and still BBS 5 hours later. I did do some extra stopping and that seemed to help as well.

I am still new to this and I am sure it is a combination of errors. I still want to figure out what I am doing wrong so I can improve......

Here is a photo of my face.........

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...ererMan010.jpg

Just enjoy the journey :)

Your technique will continue to improve (stropping, shaving, prep, everything) and you'll get those results that you're after. To be honest, you seem to be doing pretty well considering...

Your razors seem to be leaving green and brown marks on your cheeks. Definitely not normal! :D

I'd echo others and say just stick to a single razor with an edge by a proven member here. The first thing that came to my mind was improper stropping technique as eve a coarse beard shouldn't remove your edge that quickly (I typically hone every two or three months). You might also try applying some white paste to your canvas strop if you haven't already. I certainly found that that improved things greatly when I started.

I have a couple of my razors at a long time member here and he says they are really sharp..... Will figure this out. thanks for all the suggestions here. Still haven't got it yet but things are improving. My stropping seems to be improving and adding a hot towel to my morning ritual is helping some as well.

Thanks again,

Barry

Just an update...... I spoke to Jim at Vintage Blades today and he is making sure the Chirstmas Dovo is fixed. He is the picture of customer service. I had no doubt but just wanted everyone to know he is FIRST RATE.

Have been working with the JA and Jung and things are coming together. The Jung is continuing to shave well with stropping and the JA responded to a brief touch up on my wood hone. I still haven't gotten this all figured out but I am making progress.

Straight shaver in training,
Barry

Well, you've got all the advice you need from other members, but I'll add my 2 cents anyway. ;) Judging from your picture, my beard is very similar and I prefer my blades a bit sharper than those that come shave ready from Vintage Blades. The problem with sharper is that it results in a more delicate edge. A delicate edge cutting a wiry beard results in a more rapid deterioration of that edge - which I think is what you're experiencing. All you can do is exactly what you're doing; work on your technique so that you can get a good shave with a somewhat duller blade.

Like someone else already posted: a couple of months from now, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

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Originally Posted by radaddict

............ The problem with sharper is that it results in a more delicate edge. A delicate edge cutting a wiry beard results in a more rapid deterioration of that edge - which I think is what you're experiencing. .........

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Thanks....You are exactly correct. I have worked on a combiniation of things and am finding improvements. I do like the extremely sharp edge but it fades very quickly. I am using a DE in the troublesome corners of my beard and that has helped too.

Barry