Disappointed First Timer

Last week I anxiously received my freshly "Lynn honed" razor. The following day I received my order of Proraso pre/after shave cream, Proraso shaving cream and Trumper's skin food. After a busy week and a lot of convincing, this morning I was ready for my first ever straight razor shave. I started by taking a hot shower, being careful not to dry my face. I then applied the Proraso pre/after shave cream and let sit while I watched Lynn's video for the tenth time or so. After completing the video I rinsed off the pre shave cream (i'm not sure if I was supposed to or not if someone could let me know). I then whipped the Proraso shaving cream into a nice lather and applied it using a new silvertip badger hair brush. I let that set while I carefully and slowly stropped my razor, linen side first then leather side. After stropping, I added a little more lather just for kicks and was ready to give it a shot. I started on my right side using my right hand was not very impressed with the results. I adjusted the angle of the razor several times throughout the shave and it never really got super close and continued to pull the hairs rather than easily slicing through them. After finishing my first pass, I decided to relather and go with the grain again experimenting with different angles. This time it got a little closer, but not what I was expecting. I don't doubt that the razor is extremely sharp and would rather not prove it by slicing my face to shreds. I just hope that with a little bit of help and advice from all the seasoned veterans here that my shaves with get better with time and practice. I am using a 5/8" DOVO hollow ground "singing" razor from Classicshaving.com.

My questions:

1). What is a good angle to use and how do you know when you've got it.
2). Will better stropping eliminate the pulling of the hair?
3). Is there any particular type of rag that should be used to dry the razor or will a regular towel do?
4). Is the Proraso pre shave cream supposed to be rinsed off before applying the shaving cream?

How did you do the first time you drove a car, rode a bike, tied your shoes or any number of other things that we learn in life?

I'm not at the point where I'm satisfied with my results, but I'm working forward toward the goal. I don't know about anyone else, but I fell off the bike more than once before I got the knack and shaving with a straight razor is the same. You have to learn a lttle at a time and keep moving ahead.

You'll have plenty of people to give you advice, just wait a bit :D

Don in Ohio

Don't let the pre/post shave cream "sit", don't apply to heavy a coat and don't wash it off, lather over it. Don't let the lather "set", it tends to dry out which is not good, strop your razor before you lather. The point of wet shaving is to keep your wiskers and lather as moist as possible with out it running down your cheek. Dry lather is sticky. Also, you don't need to use the linen side on a newly honed blade, you can damage the edge. This is an "art" and it take practise, but you will improve as you gain confidence. Just take your time.

You have started to perform a lost art requiring great skill. Do you think perfection comes quickly and easily? If you had written saying you got a great shave now that would be something. Just keep at it with practice comes facility with manipulating the razor and thats the key. After awhile everything becomes second nature and you don't even think about. During the first month your shaves will be poor but will improve. It has nothing to do with your prep or equipment they seem fine just practice, practice, practice.

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Originally Posted by Drago81

My questions:

1). What is a good angle to use and how do you know when you've got it.

Two spine widths away from the face, about 30 degrees

2). Will better stropping eliminate the pulling of the hair?

For the next shave perform 10-20 laps on the linen and 30-50 gentle laps on the leather.

3). Is there any particular type of rag that should be used to dry the razor or will a regular towel do?

I use tissue paper

4). Is the Proraso pre shave cream supposed to be rinsed off before applying the shaving cream?

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No, lather over it

A bad stropping job can actually ruin your edge. You want to be very areful and keep as much of the blade on the strop as possible at all times to give stability to the edge. Keep it well perpendicular to the strop too or the stropping won't have the best effect.

As for wiping the blade, I use a small towel to wipe my razor, but it never touches the edge. That gets cleaned by the after shave stropping.

X

I too had a disappointing first shave. Don't get discouraged. They will get better. I am now about a month into it and have done about 1/2 dozen shaves and they are actually getting satisfying. Try going back to the strop as Randy suggested and then shave. You should notice a difference. Keep at it. You won't regret it.

My first shave wasn't too bad, but my second shave today didn't come off as easily as the first. I'm going to stick with the practice mantra that they are preaching here. It makes sense, you have to relearn your face, your whiskers, and angles. It's a lot to take in, so slowly I think and it will all fall into place.

Stick in there with me, and maybe we'll both have a different experience after a month.

It is an ongoing process. Even today I still get some not so great shaves certain days. Sometimes beard prep, sometimes the razor. I can have one that is doing well then one day it just won't shave. other times one that just never quite works well takes one more trip to the hone or the paddle and it shaves like a dream.

It takes time, just stick with it.

Tony

This is one thing that takes practice. It is not a mock3 that any yahoo can pick up and shave with. My first shave (by me that is) was not at all a pleasent experience. That is why I found this site. It has made all the difference for me.

I have shaved a total of 7 times now with a str8 Lynn loaned me. I have 4 nice nicks to prove it, one each, every other shave, including the 1 inch nick (by far the worse of them all) I got this weekend on my latest shave. Am I going to quit? Hell no, quitting is for losers.

I am by no means experienced with the str8, but I can hold my own with a DE and the one thing that I learned with the DE that I have applied to the str8 is "angle is everything." I've found that with a better and more consistent keeping of the angle, my shaves have gotten much better with every shave and I am looking forward to the next time I can use the str8.

Keep it up and you will be impressed with yourself and the results.

My entire first year sucked. The second year was good. Now that I know how to hone, and strop, and shave, the quality is amazing. Far better than a DE or Mach 3. Learning how not to screw up a honed razor is important also. Its amazingly simple, the whole process, once you know what your doing. Having a truely sharp blade is the key, I mean really really THE KEY! If you continue having only so, so shaves send it back to Lynn or someone else for more work. Get .5 paste and work on it yourself and learn how to strop.

Really, shaving with a straight is not some magical complexity that is dramatically different then other wet shaving practices. This morning I shaved with some Dove soap and a straight (I was traveling). Great shave. Under 5 minutes. Whats the trick? ...sharp blade.

I'm a newbie who had marginal shaves for the first few times. I actually got so cut up it looked like I shaved with a broken bottle. I agree with Tony in that some days are better than others as far as the quality of shave but they're ALWAYS better than the "Mock" 3 ripoff razor. Keep plugging along and imagine that str8 shaving is the only way to shave - it'll force you to learn, even if it takes a while. Necessity is the mother of invention; in your case, skill.

-Rob

Well, I am happy to say that I succussfully navigated my face for the second time. And by successfully I mean that I'm still here to talk about it. I followed everyone's advice as best I could, but three problems really stuck out on this shave. One: i'm having trouble keeping a good angle throughout the shave, but I guess that'll just come with lots of practice. Two: I have a lot of trouble navigating the curves in my neck. Three: the razor seems to "skip" when I shave across the grain on my neck. Is that due to a poorly stropped razor, poor technique or a combination of both? I realize there's still a ton I have to learn and there's many not so great shaves in my future, but i plan to stick with it. I want to thank everyone for their help and advice.

A good blade is a combination of well honed and well stropped. From there its practice. Practicing with a dull razor doesn't help much, almost creates a negative training environment. For your neck though I would suggest using the blades tip and heal to best attack the contours of the neck. First go easy at the adams apple, second use the base around the inner concave rounded sections around the windpipe, then finally, use the tip for the outside of the neck. Learning to hold the blade correctly for these moves takes time as well. I hold the blade like a baton for these moves with the razor and scales extended in a line. Do some research on the subject. I suspect the skipping is still a not so sharp blade. How much "draw" do you get when you strop? I suspect your not getting much at all. I would guess your blade catches few hairs when run over the tops of your arm hair. . . how close am I in my analysis? I'd like to ensure your blade is sharp first and then focus on technique. I believe smart money follows on this course. How much experience do you have shaving and with what?

when you talk about testing arm hairs i'm assuming that against the grain? not with the lie of the hair and should it cut all the hairs it comes in contact with ?
thanks

I have lots of arm hair protruding straight out of my arm...lol. It cuts and catches a few hairs when its close to shaving ready and catches ALL the hair when truely shaving ready. So the razor moves perpendicular to my arm. If your hair lies flat consider the HHT. I would think that you could lift the hair with your hand, and or, someone elses hand and then move the razor over the top of your arm. It should run perpendicular. I can run the blade over the hair with the grain and it catches hair too but the sensation is different because I don't push the blade into the hair, it just "catches"

I think new guys that hone razors up are missing a few stages. I see it as 1) eliminating nicks and dings 2) creating a perfect bevel 3) then polishing the bevel. In my opinion each of those stages uses varied techniques and pressure. I go from twice the weight of the blade to the weight of the blade (Stage 1) to very light pressure. For stage 2, I usually weigh the weight of the scales and the shank to determine a good weight to baseline from. I just hold it in my hand and feel the weight. I consider this weight the weight that works against me. The weight of the scales and the shank are the weight that will work against you when you are trying to keep the blade part FLAT on the hone. I use this weight when honing a blade at stage 2. If you try and pussy foot around all through the process you'll never remove nicks in stage 1, you'll never get a perfect bevel in stage 2, and you'll never even get to stage 3 to discover the power of ultra light touch. At Stage 3 the physics change because the weight of the scales and shank are offset by the cohesion of a sharp blade on the hone. The blade starts to "suck" the hone. A little lather on the hone helps this process along. Then light pressure works better and better.

A razor in Stage 3 (and these are all my own personal opinions) draws on a strop. You can shave almost anytime in this region if and only if you have done the proper pre work in the first two stages or atleast gotten close to it. Using a light touch from here gives great results and you start to see the genius in all these posts and just how fast you'll move a razor from sharp to super sharp to overhoned....then you gotta know how to strop...oh and backhone...lol.

There is another pre step that I don't want to leave out because someone will call me on it later...you need to assess the blade. Is it sharp already? Close? Is it a singing razor (they can bend easier)? Is it a 6/8? They have a longer distance from spine to edge. Makes a big difference in honing. Is it half hollow?, is it stainless? All these make for differences in honing technique which is why lots of guys send these things to Lynn...lol. You'll get it though, or atleast close enough to get great shaves.

In the case of this particular disappointment I'd say the blade from Lynn has been somewhere in Stage 3 for a while but needs proper stropping or now just a touch up on the hone. One bad stropping and the edge is toast for shaving. You can even break the edge stropping if your really determined or lift the spine even slightly.

If your not getting a good shave with a blade from Lynn its probably just not supersharp at this point but has all the first two stages PERFECT. So consider learning to strop better, using .5 paste, and maybe even a few light laps on a high grit hone to return it. Even a relative newbie should get a good pass on his cheeks with a sharp blade. One thing we rarely mention is that you can even break an edge by shaving at the wrong angle. 9 times out of 10 though its just bad stropping...

Hold the strop taught, I mean really taught. Lay the blade flat and slowly strop back and forth, rolling the egde on the spine at each end. Does the razor draw on the strop? If not use light pressure until you start to feel a draw, if you've got it down you can use more pressure to realign the entire edge but go slow and DO NOT LIFT THE SPINE. If you use some pressure and still do not feel a draw, the razor, in my opinion should be rehoned. Not from scratch but a light (Stage 3) honing.

I havent seen anyone ask if your pulling the skin tight, and I didnt think much of this either untill you mentioned the blade skipping.

You have to learn some new funny faces and awkward positions to keep the skin under the blade nice and taught. This will make a huge difference in the result of your shave if you haven't been doing that already.

Another key to straight razor shaving is making the skin you are about to shave taut. That's done by pulling the skin. You'll be surprised, no, amazed at how close you can get by pulling the skin tight. You'll also be amazed how comfortable it will be also.

There's an old saying..."If at first you don't succeed...."

Jeff

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Originally Posted by str8rzrshvr

Another key to straight razor shaving is making the skin you are about to shave taut. That's done by pulling the skin. You'll be surprised, no, amazed at how close you can get by pulling the skin tight. You'll also be amazed how comfortable it will be also.

There's an old saying..."If at first you don't succeed...."

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Hit it with a hammer and kill it? :D

Keep shaving... It certainly improves with time. My personal technique is different than Lynn’s video demonstrates, in that I use one hand. Most of us are not ambidextrous and for me, it's easier to control my razor using only my right hand. So those that switch hands need more of a learning curve for that control. Think about dribbling a basketball with your dominant hand versus the other.

Also, I would suggest using a paddle strop instead of a hanging strop. I have found it to be very effective ESPECIALLY if you take your time. Because you are new, you might want to strop the night before so you can take your time using the perfect technique until you become more skilled. I strop my razor in the evenings while I watch Seinfeld. :) I bought a paddle strop from Tony Miller and it works great you might want to contact him!

By shaving standards I do not have much experience, but I have learned SO MUCH from the people on this site… I encourage you to pick some brains here; these guys are here to help!

Overall though I think you had a pretty good first shave. I don't think so many words and opinions have ever been produced over one man's shave.

Randy Dance is giving some good info;

Although,
4). Is the Proraso pre shave cream supposed to be rinsed off before applying the shaving cream?

Personally I don't use anything too fancy. Before I take a HOT shower- making sure to keep putting plenty on my face, I put some hair conditioner right on my beard, strop my blade, hot shower, then I dry my face off, put the shaving cream on 1/2 of my face ONLY (CRITICAL!). Then use the approximate 30 degree angle. If it pulls, you probably need to strop. I typically go 15 trips on the linen, and 50 in the leather.
***As you shave, I pull my skin TIGHT. This helps eliminate cuts. I have a tricky chin and lip, so this helps A LOT ! Afterwards, I rinse off, and put some rose water/ cornhusker's lotion on my face. In 15 minutes or so, it looks like the best shave ever ! -And the rosy smell goes away in about 15 minutes too.
For more info see :
www.shavemyface.com/downloads/ The-Straight-Razor-Shave.pdf
This will get you on track.
PD

DO Not Rinse the Proraso cream off. Lather over it!!:)

AFDavis, i'm really not sure what you mean by "draw" on the strop. I've never done the arm hair test. Do you go with the grain or accros to test it?

Thats exactly the problem...the razor when properly stropped and properly honed will with a little pressure and proper technique begin to draw on the strop. It'll start to feel like its dragging instead of smoothly flying down the strop. This is the feeling you get when your strop is actually stropping. Imagine trying to align a piece of steel with a compressed piece of leather. It ain't gonna happen just by waving the blade over the strop. You need to hold the strop TAUGHT so it creates a "grabbing" surface and as the blade becomes aligned it starts to drag on the strop, for me usually after about 10-20 passes. If the razor is really sharp it'll draw with little to no pressure. I use pressure but my blades aren't always honed to perfection. I slowly add pressure until I get the drawing action. Either way, no draw, no stropping action. Which is why most guys think shaving with a straight isn't as smooth as a DE. They don't strop correctly. The edge becomes perfectly aligned and then the bevel edge starts catching on the leather hone and creates drag and feels like a sticking feeling. For me this is the KEY indicator that the blade is in fact shave ready. No other test is needed because an inproperly honed blade will never produce any draw. Make sense?

Understanding the sense of draw and what it feels like is a huge important step in being able to shave with a straight razor, probably more important then knowing how to hone.

That makes a lot of sense and I can't honestly remember if i've ever felt that. I've read several places that you should not use pressure when stropping so I really haven't been pressing on the blade when passing it on the strop. I guess i'll try that next time i shave. Thanks.

Sounds good. I'm not sure what the pressure phobia is all about. Two things stand out for me. One as I mentioned above, it can be the key to getting a razor to shave smoothly. Two, I've heard of guys stropping on leather with some pressure to align the blade as the last step in honing. Both seem logical. After I use some pressure the blade stays aligned pretty well and little pressure is needed from that day forward.

Keep the strop taught and do not lift the spine. Use the right amount of pressure. You want to use a light touch if that is the correct pressure and use pressure if that is what is needed. Start with light pressure and work your way to "some" pressure to get a draw. Although I've used lots of pressure there really isn't any reason to use heavy pressure. The blade isn't sharp enough to bother with, just go back to the hone and keep working with a light touch. The key is to feel the blade being stropped and aligned. If you don't feel it then your not doing it.

Just make sure you go slow and keep smooth, you don't want to make some silly move flipping the razor and put a nick in your strop.