ATG SHAVING?

I am obsoltely against it.
This is my reasons. Please come up and prove to me i am wrong.
In my personal experience people who start to shave with straight does have problem at first.
They try to get similar shave to MACH3 SO ON and do go against the grain.
At first they do get great false result .
What i mean by great false result.
Shaving against the grain does in fact cuts hairs deeper then while they use regular wtg or xtg.
In fact if you do have sharp blade and shaving experience you would get exact result just going wtg and xtg.
This is why i called it great false result.
In their mind they think they cannot get similar result without going ATG.
Why i am against to do ATG.?
While you use your straight razor ATG you are unknowingly damaging the your skin protection. You in fact will not feel comfortable shave after ATG .You face will bother you. Burns etc .
I think if you have a sharp blade, scything motion technique, good preparation and patience you will get BBS most of the time.
Now please prove i am wrong.
GL

You know as well as anyone that it's impossible to prove a negative. Seems that the burden of proof is yours, and I'm absolutely riveted. I can hardly wait to see the proof, my friend :)

*subscribes*

I have a counter example. ATG is the only way of getting my chin smooth because of my wirehair and grain there. I cannot do scything on most parts of my chin as I would slice them off. OTOH if I do ATG anywhere else, my face is in flames two days later.

For me under the chin I can do only WTG and ATG, no XTG passes.
I never had any problems with face irritation after ATG shave. I shave every day.
I think the need for ATG and the skin reaction to it is very individual parameter.

ATG is not something that I do very frequently, but I have shaved ATG on my neck on occasion, just as Lynn demonstrated in his dvd. When I do, I have the smoothest, longest lasting shave ever--at least on my neck.

I wouldn't rcommend that ATG is something that a newbie to str8 razor shaving should dive right into. They should get the hang of WTG and XTG first. Getting comfortable with those two moves alone will keep their hands full for the first couple of months.

No one can prove you wrong! WTG is the only direction that I can shave in which I will not be shaving ATG. I do 4 passes for a reason. I like BBS or DFS and that is not possible, for me, without an ATG pass. My razors are as sharp as anyones, from what people have told me, so I know that doing a single pass will not give me the shave that I want. Up front, scything with some of the razors that I have is downright dangerous!:D When I am done I can use an alum block and get almost no burn. Go figure it must be a YMMV thing.


Later,
Richard

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

While you use your straight razor ATG you are unknowingly damaging the your skin protection. You in fact will not feel comfortable shave after ATG .You face will bother you. Burns etc .

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Not for me. I get the smoothness I want and none of the burn and discomfort you mention. Maybe it isn't for you, but that doesn't mean it should be brushed aside. ;)

Actually, quite a few areas on my face I do single pass ATG, as it has no uncomfortable side effect and gets the job done. ATG is something that doesn't work everywhere as a starter for me. Perhaps you experience similar discomfort stronger.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I shave every day.

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Stefan This is your trick and success.(basically you don't let your facial hair grow and thicken your blades should last longer too) That is why you don't have irritation so on problems. There is not so many of us could shave every day. fastest and best is every other day for me.
sometimes you will need to give time to skin to heal.

I agree with you only for the cheek areas, the only way i can even approach a "smooth" shave under the neck area is to shave ATG. I hate the feeling of hair under my neck after a shave and only using WTG i achieve results comparable to a mach 3 ATG. Considering i can accomplish a smooth shave (not BBS but way better than mach 3) after my fifth str8 razor shave ever, I think I'm a quick learner. I shave XTG on my checks and ATG under the neck and upper lip (crappy results XTG) with relatively no cuts (did have abrasion today though due to poor lather).
While I can't say my neck area isn't aggitated after a shave I only experience tight skin, but i have absolutly no irritation after some cold water and a good balm/aftershave. i do only shave at most three time a week though. I have a goatee and don't shave my chin...yet...i don't see a point in ATG everyday unless your face is like a chia pet, which maybe the case? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Stefan This is your trick and success.(basically you don't let your facial hair grow and thicken your blades should last longer too) That is why you don't have irritation so on problems. There is not so many of us could shave every day. fastest and best is every other day.
sometimes you will need to give time to skin to heal.

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Well yesterday I shaved 3 day old beard and had no skin burn.
When I started shaving ATG would leave burns, and frankly I was close to give up on that pass. I started honing and eventually I was able to get the edges of my razors sharper than what they were initially and the ATG was no problem for me. In my opinion sharper edge will give smoother ATG pass with little irritation, I could be wrong but I can't think of anything else that can explain this. My bear prep is pretty much some homemade preshave oil and that's it no shower, no hot towels no prelathering etc.

I do a 3 pass WTG,XTG and ATG shave every day and have no skin irritation at all. I'm not claiming everyone can do it, just that I can do it. Personally I don't like a " one size fits all " philosophy when it comes to shaving rules and guidelines, that sort of thinking belongs with the cartridge razor using masses.

Sorry Sham, you are way off base. I rarely get razor burn and I go ATG every day. In fact I should probably call my skin leather or even human hide. For me to get razor burn I need the trifecta of dull razor, wandering mind, and excessive pressure.:medvl: If I lose one of those three I am still going to have a nice shave.

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Originally Posted by CraigJ

Sorry Sham, you are way off base. I rarely get razor burn and I go ATG every day. In fact I should probably call my skin leather or even human hide. For me to get razor burn I need the trifecta of dull razor, wandering mind, and excessive pressure.:medvl: If I lose one of those three I am still going to have a nice shave.

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We all don't have same skin. That is why in your mind i am way off base. You can shave against the grain easily and without any trouble . That doesn't mean all people are the same. I have heard someone shaves with knifes ,another person just shaves ATG nothing else and gets bbs shaves. This things will happen . when i mean ATG shave will hurt more then benefit to the people i was thinking about general straight razor users. There is a lot people out there have very sensitive skin.
hope this helps

I agree with you.

If I do ATG at all it feels like someone has poured jet fuel on my face, and I'm red and sore all day.

A master barber at Trumpers also told me to never shave ATG, for the reasons you mention. He also told me never to put anything alcohol based on the skin after shaving as this irritates and dries out your skin, which is what happens to me. He told me to use something like skinfood or a balm on the areas you've shaved, and use the AS on the sides of your neck for the scent.

Then again, its definately horses for courses. Some people can do the full three pass shave and then put on some splash with no problems. I cant do either..! :)

Boy, you opened up a can on this one. I know you are supposed to do the scything motion WTG and that particular motion does require a little more x-perience. I am working on that. And also to use both hands. I do shave ATG and and I only use my RH. It works for me. And I am getting BBS shaves, probalby because my razors are wicked whisker flingin sharp.
Cheers..

I have a patch of the skin right under my chin where hair grows practically in parallel to the skin and regardless of the angle i could never get it all shaved smooth with WTG neither with straight, Mach 3 or double edge. If anyone has any advise on how to get it w/o going ATG I would really appreciate...

ATG is the only way for me to get "BBS".

I do an ATG pass every day, have no irriation and my skin is like a supermodel.

I'm new to straight razor shaving but the only time I get a burn is XTG. I'm still in the honeymoon phase though.

I should mention that I have a beard and shave only the topline and my neck.

It is interesting how things can change. If you would have told me that I would switch from hot to cold water shaves I would have said not a chance. Then I read the pamphlet (you know the one) and now I am enthusiastically a cold water shaver.

The book also said that one pass WTG would suffice but if you wanted bbs to do two but always WTG. It warned of ingrowns, razor bumps and irritation if the ATG was used. Now I've been doing a first pass WTG and a second with a mix of XTG and ATG for years. I've never had an ingrown or a razor bump in 61 years. OTOH, I have had irritation but I learned to avoid that with technique.

So I tried two passes WTG and wasn't happy with the results. Not bad but not as good as I'm used to. I went back to my default mode. Just shifting gears here ..... Glen (gssixgun) posted a thread a long time ago suggesting a one pass shave. I tried it once and it was a no go for me.

The other day I took a Genco Fluid Steel that was NOS but dull and honed it to shave ready on my naniwas up to 12k. I stropped and it passed HHT all along the length of the blade ..... with my super fine hair. I did my cold water shave with a WTG pass and felt my neck, chin and cheeks. There was simply no point in doing another pass. If you have bbs what more do you need ?

The following day I did the same routine with an equally sharp Robert Williams custom. Same result, one pass WTG and no need for a second pass. There is no doubt in my mind that part of the difference in my earlier failed attempt at a one pass shave versus my current success can be attributed to improved technique. The scything motion that Sham mentioned was critical and took me a long time to finally get the hang of.

I would also repeat what I have said before, that we are not all playing with the same deck of cards. My skin/whisker combination may not be as tough as some others and as in all things in wet shaving YMMV.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

We all don't have same skin. That is why in your mind i am way off base. You can shave against the grain easily and without any trouble . That doesn't mean all people are the same. I have heard someone shaves with knifes ,another person just shaves ATG nothing else and gets bbs shaves. This things will happen . when i mean ATG shave will hurt more then benefit to the people i was thinking about general straight razor users. There is a lot people out there have very sensitive skin.
hope this helps

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Sham, I think your original post was read (by me and others) to be a challenge to ANY straight shaver to prove why shaving ATG was advantageous over not doing it. I accept that challenge. I go against the grain every time without problems. It took me months to develop the technique, as it does everybody, but now it's standard operating procedure.

So... challenged accepted!

I shave ATG every day without irritation. If you're getting irritation, maybe you're doing it wrong.

We shave customers wtg and xtg only. this gives close comfortable shave. every ones skin is differant. ATG pass will tear the skin. Some men won't get that problem. I like to give my skin a break now and then. I feel the shave is better every other day. I can get a smoother shave atg but i don't like the feeling.

Hi,

+1 on what Mr Haywood has said; I normally don't have a problem with ATG daily, but if my neck does start to get a bit irritated, I will skip the ATG or do it every other day.

I used to have an obsession with BBS, but sore chops soon cured that :)

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

I think if you have a sharp blade, scything motion technique, good preparation and patience you will get BBS most of the time.

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If you need a scything motion to get BBS then you might want to consider a nice safe ATG pass instead, with the spine held low against the skin to minimise submarining beneath the whiskers. Skin is quite resistant to push cutting but is very susceptible to slicing, and the scything motion is courting danger in this regards.

Every barber I have ever seen uses a slice/scything motion on their patrons and they say never use an ATG pass because it's prone to cutting and irritating someone and is bad for business and customer satisfaction, not to mention open up skin and spread bacteria easier.


Food for thought?

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Originally Posted by mparker762

If you need a scything motion to get BBS then you might want to consider a nice safe ATG pass instead, with the spine held low against the skin to minimise submarining beneath the whiskers. Skin is quite resistant to push cutting but is very susceptible to slicing, and the scything motion is courting danger in this regards.

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It takes time to learn scything motion shaving. I have cut myself many times by doing so but as soon as i get used to it i haven't cut myself. It seems like it is dangerous etc in fact it is not. just try stretch your skin and make small strokes your face will appreciate. GL

ATG is good for me. No burn, no rash, no discomfort. Evidently ymmv.