Purchasing first razor, what to I REALLY need??

There are so many posts about accessories, stones, and strops, and of course the Norton 4000/8000, I wanted to describe my plan and ask a few questions.

I am going to purchase a DOVO "Special" Tortoise 6/8 from classic shaving and have it honed by Lynn. I have a limited budget, and really dont want to kill my first razor by trying to hone it myself, I did that once with a pocket knife and ended up destroying it! I also really want to try and avoid purchasing any extra equipment that I could buy later down the road.

I know I will probably have to purchase at least two strops, or perhaps one of the four sided strops from Tony for sharpening and finishing, but I have several questions about this:
1. no one seems to mention the width of strop needed, is a 3" better than 2", will a thicker strop or stone help keep a more uniform edge?
2. If the new razor is professionally honed, can I get away with a strop and not worry about the honing stone for a while?
3. Paddle strop or hanging strop for sharpening pastes?
4. 1.0 and .50 pastes or .50 and .25 pastes?
5. Does an all leather strop (no linen) have two usable sides or just one?

I know my choice of razor isnt the cheapest, but I have used DOVO's subsidiary for my safety razor and I want to stick with the same company. My main goal is to eliminate any upfront coasts of products and accessories that I do not need. However, if I will need an item within 3 months of buying the razor, I might as well get it now.

I already have all the brushes and creams and conditioners so I am set there.

Any words of advice would be VERY appreciated.

thanks so much,

-Josh

1. A 3 inch wide is a little easier to learn to use
2. Yes, as long as you have pastes
3. Paddle
4. I would recommend 1 and .5, later you may want .25
5. 1, the other side in most cases is unusable, there are exceptions

Josh:

I started shaving with a straight razor back in the middle of January. At the time all I had was a single one-sided strop and a cheap ebay razor. My razor was dull so I had to get a Norton 4000/8000 hone. Before this I tried a arkansas whetstone but, to my dismay, it was way too course.

You will need a good strop, I would suggest getting one from Tony in the Vendors section of the forums. He is a very nice guy, and will direct you on which strop to buy. I bought one a little while ago, when it came in the mail I was amazed. The quality was out of this world; worth every penny I paid.

Last word of advise, at first, don't get fancy with your stropping. I unfortunately did, fortunately, on a cheap strop that I had. Needless to say I ended up nicking it. You do not want to do this on your fancy strop from Tony...

It does not take long to get the art of straight razor shaving down. I am getting the best shaves of my life now, with no razor burn! Just take it slow and easy and you will do fine, and ask alot of questions.

Mark.

Tony has entire newbie kits if you're looking for one stop shop

Items to get:
1) Razor
a. sharpened by Lynn, (he may have a used dovo for sale)
b. New dovo from ray, www.classicshaving.com, sharpened by Lynn
2) Strop
a. from Tony or ray
b. home made if you're good with leather works
3) cup soap
4) a decent cup or soap mug
5) lather brush

My preferences
don't paste, condition the leather instead (I use lexol).
Hanging Linen and Leather strop

leather only strops that I have seen have only one side
professional honing supposedly lasts about 2 to 3 months with care and proper stropping. I got a razor sharpened by Lynn last Sept or so and it still slices the whiskers off as good as when I got it.

Later on you might want to get a norton 4000/8000 stone for sharpening. If you do be sure to get some junk razors from ebay (not pakistani razors though) for practice. Otherwise just send to Ray to be sharpened by Lynn.

Total costs will run between around 70 to 130 for a good start up system but look at it this way, once you get good at it you'll save probably that much after your first year of shaving with a straight instead of disposables/safeties

FUD

JL, the guys are dead on accurate, but as a newbie myself, their advice could still be confusing. My advice is to call Tony or ClassicShaving.com and they'll tell you exactly what to order from them - type of leather, size of leather, pastes, etc. It's like telling a doctor what pain you're feeling and then getting individualized attention according to your needs. I find this to be the simplest, most fool-proof way.

Plus you'll get to chat with some great people who love what they do.

-Rob

I have that Dovo special tortoise great razor. Get a 3" strop your life will be much easier. A norton 4/8 3" also as you will need this sometime. You will want a badger brush and cream/soap :cool:

Thanks for the replies! I do have all the shaving soaps, and brushes, etc from my safety razor shaving so I am set there.

The more I read the more I wonder if I can get away without having the razor sharpened and just getting a pre-pasted 4 way strop from tony...what do ya'll think???

If your buying a razor from Tony I would suggest having him hone it. If its from classicshaving.com, you can get away without having it honed but, I find that razors honed by Lynn, whether they are still sharp or not, have a very nice permanent bevel which comes in handy when you start sharpening it yourself. Also, you can see a sharpeness level attainable via honing by hand which is nice to learn about. You can get away without having him hone it but is it wise savings for a beginner. ???? You can send it to him later and pay your own postage or you can do it now. You might "get it" right from the beginning with your own pastes...honestly though, I'd say your chances of just spontaneously getting it with pastes alone is about 75/25 in your favor. The odds get better in your favor based on how patient you are and how long your willing to stick with it. Is Tony applying the paste for you or are you? That would make a difference. As easy as straight shaving is, there are a lot of variables. I personally wouldn't rely on just pastes alone to put a new razor into shaving shape, they are a mixed bag of edge quality. But if you do I would recommend more strongly the 1 m and .5 m option for paste. As long as you think in terms of a journey and not a solution you can go cheap now and build as you go. Everyone, in my opinion, should have one razor honed by Lynn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Everyone, in my opinion, should have one razor honed by Lynn.

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If that is the case then I will have him hone it when I order. If I just purchase the razor honed by Lynn, and a nice 3" strop, how long can I go before I need another strop or a 4 way strop for use with pastes? Also how long would I be able to go without re-honing it myself?

My goal is to get the bare necessities now, and then worry about finding a cheap practice razor and a Norton 4k/8k hone in about four months. If I can go a few months without another strop for use with pastes, thats even better.

I have to justify the expenses to the fiancé, so if I can prove how into this I am after a few months instead of diving in all at once, I can still get quality accessories, but I wont get much resistance when buying new products.

Good question, I'll be by later to check out your beard. For me a nicely honed razor lasts about 2 weeks.

With strops inpregnated with say 1 micron and .5, I think you could feasible go months without honing, I suppose without being over optimistic, a year. It depends on how good you are with strops and paste. I think its pretty individualized, personally, I'm OK with a Norton hone, OK with pastes, and I ROCK with barber hones...but back to pastes.

Some might say you'd go for years without needing to hone. I would have to bow to other opinions on this one though, I've never tried to go a long time using only pastes. For me a $10 barber hone would make too much sense after only a few months of satisfied shaving. See, technically, I'm not sure that your understanding that honing with a stone and stropping with pastes is really pretty near identical in concept.

But, this is important, without any method of removing metal, just a razor and a strop, no matter how sharp, its not going to last all that long. 10 days is the longest I've gone and I sharpened the blade, but it didn't need it yet. I could guess 15 shaves. I've heard of guys going 30-35, but they were pretty good. They had high skill levels. No idea what kind of beard they had though.

So I'm guessing that you'll go about 2 weeks and run the razor over .5 paste, go another 2 weeks and run over .5 paste; then I picture the third time you'll need to use the 1 m paste and then follow with the .5. About that time you'll bump it on something or drop the blade and then you'll be buying a hone or sending it off to someone to "fix" for you and you'll be back in action again for another couple of months. By then you'll be hooked and you'll just go to another razor. At some point in there you'll get a wicked cut and since you'll be married the wife will talk you out of shaving with a straight too, that'll last about 2 weeks...oh wait thats another thread.

Here is what I really think...without a strop with pastes, just a strop the razor lasts around a month for the well skilled. With pastes, about a year for the well skilled. With a hone, forever, again only for the well skilled. Your mileage, especially when your learning, will vary.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

About that time you'll bump it on something or drop the blade and then you'll be buying a hone or sending it off to someone to "fix" for you and you'll be back in action again for another couple of months. By then you'll be hooked and you'll just go to another razor. At some point in there you'll get a wicked cut and since you'll be married the wife will talk you out of shaving with a straight too, that'll last about 2 weeks...oh wait thats another thread.

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I'll be damned if I am going to want someone else to fix my mistakes, if I kill the blade, I would want to be the one to fix it. If I can go 2 or 3 months without buying a hone, I could justify the expense. I am not sure I understand the difference between the norton 4k/8k hone and a barbers hone? I have read that for minor blade restoration a 4k/8k hone is the grit of choice. The only reason I am suggesting strops with paste on them, is that they seem to be less expensive expecially the pre pasted 4 way from Tony. I am sure I will end up buying all the goodies just like I do with my guns, but I dont want to do it all at once.

Sounds like a good plan....barber hones are the hones used by barbers to refine the edge of the razor when they were shaving guys during the week. They would send out their razors to a honing guy every now and then. Think of a barber hone as a fine grit designed to sharpen an already sharp razor. I agree with everyone else, the pastes are the best for you to start with, no worry there. A Norton is the best all around tool for not only sharpening an edge but fixing up the blade and restoring the old edges off Ebay. Either way, you have to know how to hone first. Stropping is pretty easy. If you drop your razor or hit it on the faucet you can send it out to get "fixed". There is absolutely no disgrace in doing this what so ever...I would even consider it myself, as you may even need a 1000 grit hone, a 4K/8K, and who knows what else to fix the blade up.

Note FUDs post in this thread...third post I think...he says he used a Lynn honed razor for a long time without honing....

Prepasted 4 sided strop from Tony is a very good start for refreshing an edge on a sharp razor. If you are careful and don't ding it on the faucet, as someone else has done, or on the sink, as I have done then you probably won't need a hone for a very long time, if ever.

At the same time if you decide to move on to honing a dull blade then you will continue to use the 4 sided pasted strop to finish the edge. I like mine up to .5 micron, so the 4 sided paddle strop is a good investment.

Being able to hone a blade from nothing to shave sharp carries with it some satisfaction plus any dings are just: "Oh, well, guess I'll go to the hone for an hour" and not a heart sinking experience that it otherwise becomes.

You can get serious nicks out with 4k Norton but it can take a looooooong time. I used a soft 1000 grit Japanese waterstone at first because I had one but then splurged on a 220/1000 Norton. Much faster and easier. I only use the 1k side. It is more than sufficient to create a new bevel from nothing. I don't know what the 220 would be used for on a razor.

I am one of those that started with a razor and a 2" 4k/8k Norton. Honed my first razor myself. The TI 6/8 actually came with a 2 mil (2/1000") nick out of the box. It was scarry at first, but honing my new $150 blade got me more comfortable handling the sharp steel. Made it a bit less stressful for the first shave.

Now, four months later, I don't worry about getting a blade sharp. I know that it is only a matter of time. I like the demystification of the process. It is not rocket science.

By the way, I still prefer 2" width hone. My 1k Norton and 12k Shapton are 3" and I find it easier to hone with an X pattern on the 2", especially a smiling blade because less of the blade is on the stone. If I had to buy another stone I would make it a 2", but you won't know what your preference is until you try it and give yourself time to get used to it.

As far as barbers hones are concerned, I feel it is a matter of taste and history, not a necessity. I have not heard or seen any evidence that you get more out of a barber's hone than you can with artificial ones like Norton or Shapton. In the end it is the quality of your honing followed by the quality of the steel in the blade that matters most.

I think my best bet, so I dont freak out while learning to hone is to eventually get a norton 4k/8k and an ebay POS razor for$10, that way if I screw up, I wont throw a fit. I really like the idea of honing an old beat up razor into the sharp tool it was meant to be, but I dont want to bite off more than I can chew or spend too much this early in the game (I have a horrible habit of doing that!)

The longer my Fiance thinks that this new shaving passion is just a new hobby and not an obsession, the less she will freak out when the bills start rolling in later on!

Since everyone is talking about the hones. Here are a couple that another post led me to. http://www.redtrader99.com/hones.html I am going to get the begginers set of 3. Comes with medium. medium/fine. and fine finishing. Fairly decent price for a 3 stone set.