Shaving against the grain - ouch

I've had a couple of really good shaves with my razor since it reached me a month ago or so, and a many mediocre shaves. I don't think my blade is quite sharp enough yet but I plan to get a pasted strop soon to address that issue.

I mention this because a couple of weeks ago I decided to attempt shaving against the grain on the second pass. In the past, I have occasionally done so with a mach 3 which invariably resulted in bad razor burn and ingrown hairs. This attempt was not very different - despite having shaved my beard down pretty close, I was finding that the blade was biting into the remaining hair really hard and almost causing the blade to 'skip', regardless of how lightly and evenly i attempted to apply pressure.

I gave up after doing my cheeks, but I am wondering whether this will always be the case when trying to shave against the grain, or whether this is just a symptom of a not-yet-sharp-enough razor.

Does anyone here finish their shave with a pass against the grain?

Yep, I have to for that close shave. I'm betting your razor is not sharp enough.

Sometimes when I'm feeling squirlly I'll go against the grain at about a 45 degree angle. Takes a really sharp blade and its not easy for me to do. Funny though the whiskers just grow back.... :-(

a very sharp razor will work. . .I get pretty close with the grain so its not really worth the extra pass though....that takes practice too but stretching the skin and shaving down makes more sense than shaving against the grain. Given a sharp blade and enough time though you can shave against the grain if you want. I suggest you purchase .25 paste, .5 paste, and 1 micron paste and a 4 sided paddle strop if you feel you need to go against the grain. You'll need an ultra sharp blade.

I go against the grain and I have a pretty thick beard, sometimes on the first pass if I'm in a bit of a rush. All I use is a Lynn honed razor touched up occasionally with 0.5 paste and it does the job rather well.

First guess is your razor isn't sharp enough. Second guess is technique. Some 0.5 paste, be it chromium oxide or diamond, will refresh an edge. Try about 30 round trips on the paste, wipe the razor (you don't want the paste to find its way to your non-pasted strop), then about 30 round trips on the plain strop. The other possible issue is technique. Make sure you are really pulling the skin tight. Use a very light tough -- let the razor do it's thing. Experiment with stretching the skin from behind the razor, as well as in front of the razor. Be careful with the latter, because if you slip nothing good will happen.

I shave against the grain every day. I have to agree with the prior responses the blade is not sharp enough.

I tend to go with the grain on initial pass and more of across the grain, than against on the second. Totally opposite against the grain on lower section of my neck always gave me your results. I now make sure I pull that area tightly from neck are behind stubble (from the ear area) and then shave in direction more like 90 degrees across rather than completely against. My motto ...Keep it tight, keep it light

well, I emailed tony yesterday about buying a pasted paddle strop.. hope he gets back to me soon so i get my blade sharper :D

I go against the grain on my second pass. The key for me was getting a good stretch. I have to use a small towel to get a good grip under the starting point of each stroke, but it works perfectly that way. A super-sharp razor certainly helps.

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Originally Posted by gegtik

Does anyone here finish their shave with a pass against the grain?

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I do. I find it necessary to get a close shave.

It seems your razor isn't sharp enough. Even when it is, you might have a little difficulty going directly against the grain in some spots; try at an angle against the grain. You could also try getting the whiskers even shorter before the last pass. In other words do a with and across the grain pass to get down to a fine stubble, then going very lightly, you may be able to go against the grain.

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Originally Posted by sensei_kyle

Make sure you are really pulling the skin tight. Use a very light tough -- let the razor do it's thing. Experiment with stretching the skin from behind the razor, as well as in front of the razor. Be careful with the latter, because if you slip nothing good will happen.

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Stretching from behind the razor when cutting against the grain can cause trouble. Since the whiskers are leaning towards the razor, the stretch is pulling the whiskers down, against the skin. So, if you're able to get under them, the strectch is pulling against the razor. On the other hand, if you're pulling from in front of the razor, you're making the whiskers stand up and you will be able to cut them more easily, at the risk of injuring your finger.

When stretching you always need to think about the direction of the stretch in relation to whether you're making the whiskers stand up or lie down.

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Stretching from behind the razor when cutting against the grain can cause trouble. Since the whiskers are leaning towards the razor, the stretch is pulling the whiskers down, against the skin. So, if you're able to get under them, the strectch is pulling against the razor. On the other hand, if you're pulling from in front of the razor, you're making the whiskers stand up and you will be able to cut them more easily, at the risk of injuring your finger.

When stretching you always need to think about the direction of the stretch in relation to whether you're making the whiskers stand up or lie down.

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huh, I'd never have thought of that. good point :)

Joe is 100% correct in his explanation of proper facial stretching relative to the growth of the beard. Stretching in front of the edge, while shaving against the grain, will provide a closer shave... albeit a little more dangerous if you slip. I prefer this method for against the grain, but I realize it isn't for everyone.

I stretch from behind the growth wherever possible. A very keen razor requires little force so I don't heve a problem with aiming the edge at my hand. Plus, I'm always sliding my hand along in front of the razor on the against pass, so it's very safe. No problems so far.

X

I had this same issue. The razor is not sharp enough. I recently got my SRP razor honed by Lynn, and it worked like a charm against the grain. The razor has to be sharp, sharp, sharp, to work against the grain...

So, this morning i woke up and decided today was going to be the day. Since I last tried, I dropped by xman's place and he helped me hone my blade, as well as improve my stropping technique.

Following a hot shower and a waiting period after I had lathered up my shaving cream, I completed a with-the-grain and cross-grain pass with no problem whatsoever. I tried wetting my face thoroughly and stretching the skin, and gingerly laying the blade against my chinline to shave up; as soon as i tried to draw the blade up, I ecountered extreme friction, as if all the tiny downward-facing hair stumps were trapping the blade against my face.

"Fuck it", I figured it was time to see what a complete shave was like. I only started taking hair out after I changed my mentality.. this was a completely different kind of shaving. I started at 90 degrees ad scraped a bit, then started narrowing the angle of attack. No matter what I tried the incredible friction remained; I tried re-stropping several times and it didn't change much. After much work, I managed to do both cheeks and my lower jaw. I didn't dare go for the neck :P

So I'm sitting here at work 40 minutes later and my face is starting to feel a bit less like a thousand tiny serrated daggers are being plunged into it.

maybe my coarse beard and my sensitive skin are conspiring against me

I don't go against the grain very often. I find one pass with, followed by another with at a steeper blade angle, and finishing with a somewhat aggressive across the grain pass gets me plenty smooth. My skin just won't take against the grain. It does get it a bit closer, but it irritates the hell out of my skin. Not just a str8 either, any type of razor does that to me. Not worth the irritation for me, sort of defeats the purpose of my going to a str8 in the first place.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by gegtik

maybe my coarse beard and my sensitive skin are conspiring against me

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Probably, but you could try getting the stubble a lot shorter before you try the countergrain pass. Long whiskers draw the blade into the skin. THe undersurface of the whiskers is like a ramp. The harder you push to cut the more the force that applied to the skin. Something has to give- usually your face.

You're doing what I call aggressive shaving. It matters more how aggressive your passes are than how many you do. Think gentle, and don't try to cut down to skin until the stubble is really fine.

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Probably, but you could try getting the stubble a lot shorter before you try the countergrain pass. Long whiskers draw the blade into the skin. THe undersurface of the whiskers is like a ramp. The harder you push to cut the more the force that applied to the skin. Something has to give- usually your face.

You're doing what I call aggressive shaving. It matters more how aggressive your passes are than how many you do. Think gentle, and don't try to cut down to skin until the stubble is really fine.

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thanks for the suggestion joe.. next time I'm feeling brave (read: masochistic) I'll just try doing several more cross grain passes before taking on the toughest of the tough

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Originally Posted by gegtik

thanks for the suggestion joe.. next time I'm feeling brave (read: masochistic) I'll just try doing several more cross grain passes before taking on the toughest of the tough

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Or you could try it with the grain gently.

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Or you could try it with the grain gently.

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Gegtik,

I agree with Joe. I'd only done one cross-grain attempt since starting with a DE; it didn't go well. ;) Joe suggested 2 light with-grain passes before trying the cross-grain and it was great! Also, take a day or two off before trying again.

I do one pass with and then one against. As long as my razor is sharp I have no problem with this.

There are probably as many ways of doing this as there are shavers, but I agree that you probably want to try to go with the grain of the hair first. Many people (though by no means all, as you've seen), including myself, shave with the grain, then across, then (possibly) against. In each case, using a very sharp razor, and a very light touch, will get you the furthest.

If your beard is very coarse, you might also consider restropping between passes to make sure it's as keen as possible. Lather, strop, shave, re-lather, re-strop, etc. If you lather and let it sit on your face for a little while, that tends to soften the hairs as well.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by RichZ

I do one pass with and then one against. As long as my razor is sharp I have no problem with this.

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You know, I could never get that to work. If I don't have an intermediate pass I leave so many whiskers I might as well use a disposable.

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Originally Posted by JerseyLawyer

If you lather and let it sit on your face for a little while, that tends to soften the hairs as well.

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But you should relather before you shave to avoid it being too dry.

When I started shaving against grain (Lynn honed razor) I waited a few days between shaves so my face could get used to it. The initial shave was really smooth save under my nose and on my chin. I found eventually that very short repeated strokes using the tip of the blade worked best with least resistance. I still get the bumps periodically when I rush it.

It seems that shaving against the grain is a skill that takes LOTs of practice and I still have a ways to go.

Also, overly sensitive skin cannot shave against the grain without the irritation and bumps. A sad fact but true.