ATG, like starting from scratch

Well, the good news is that I got BBS on (most) of my cheeks and on my chin, but it cost me.

Saturday night is me time to try new stuff. I don't go to church on Sunday, and there's nobody to see how much I hack up my face.

I've been getting very good 2 pass shaves for a few weeks now, but in the absence of the ATG pass, I could never claim BBS.

Going ATG was like going back to square one for me. Short strokes, trembling hands, lots of razor drag. But I know the path to true BBS passes through here.

So, I decided to go ATG, regardless of the ill effects. I prepped, and did my WTG and XTG passes without incident. But that ATG pass was a brute. It was an effort to relax and absorb the punishment, but I did so.

I guess it was a decent first step. I didn't slice open my neck or cheeks, but I was glowing as red as I was a couple of months ago when I had my first SR shave.

My conclusion: true ATG requires the keenest edge possible, and consumate razor control. I'm working on both of these, and I hope I will be able to claim BBS on these areas before long.

Me ... shinnying up the learning curve

Ian
Cheers!

I use very short strokes, keep the blade almost flat on the face, and stretch from the opposite direction than when stretching for the WTG pass. Took me months to figure it out completely, by the way. You should never end up with a red face, though, as that is almost certainly a sign of too much pressure.

Good luck,
Robin

In areas where the whiskers lay close to the skin, or where the skin is more sensitive, ATG passes are particularly tricky.

Sometimes I go so far as to do two ATG passes on such areas. Seems counterintuitive, but the secret is that I do the first pass with the razor completely flat, meaning the spine touches the skin. This acts as sort of a reduction pass without being very harsh on the skin at all. It allows me to do a second, normal ATG pass (still with the blade angle very low) with far less trouble.

Pro-tip: incorporating a variation of blade buffing into the spine-flat pass makes it even more effective, and it still won't irritate the skin if you do it right.

I'm open to all kinds of advice - seriously. I have some built-in biases though. As a long-time woodworker and sharpener.there ain't much in my shop that I can't hone to "smooth as a baby's ass" sharpness. I've been putting a mirror-sharp edge on my planes and chisels since the '80s.

One thing I've learned since I took on this str8 shaving thing, though, is that my face is not a hunk of wood. Wood doesn't complain. If I can shear material from the face of a board without tearing out chunks, all is well.

I've been getting pretty good 2 pass shaves for a few weeks now (I'm about 9 weeks into this adventure), and the skin irritation has been quite manageable. I haven't been getting any closer than my Schick 2-blade cartridge, though, and that is my benchmark.

I know I'm not going to surpass my cartridge results unless I can do clean ATG passes. I'm still committed to getting there, but it seems like I still have a few weeks/months to go.

Cheers,
Ian

And, it requires the lowest possible angle - almost flat to your skin.

I state this a lot here, but I do so because for me, it was the absolute key to doing an ATG pass.

Observe the angels from the Wiki. 5 Degrees for an ATG is almost flat to the skin. So I start this stroke flat to the skin and lift just enough to cut as the stroke is made.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...ing_angles.jpg

I've given up on a full ATG pass. Just way too much irritation involved. I've settled for 1 WTG and 2 Xtg passes from differing directions. Not quite BBS, but no irritation and surprisingly close.

Well, as much as I like the gear, straight razor shaving is about the results for me. To date I have been making good progress, and I've enjoyed the journey.

But I'm pragmatic, and if I can't a superior result with the naked blade, then I won't stick with it. I picked up a Rolls Razor in good condition, and that will be my "go to" option if I can't get the job done with the str8. I used a Rolls in the 80's and I always considered the shave to be "good enough". Right now I'm enjoying "good enough" shaves with the str8, but the point for me is to achieve excellence.

I'm willing to put in the effort, but it's pretty clear that I have to whip the ATG beast in order to get where I want. I've let my face recover from the previous ATG experiment, and I'll be lathering up in the next couple of hours. My razor has been touched up and stropped to the best of my ability. I've taken on board the advice that's been offered ...

Now, if Cote d'Ivoire can beat these Portuguese jokers, I'll be good to go ;)

Cheers,
Ian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alembic

And, it requires the lowest possible angle - almost flat to your skin.

I state this a lot here, but I do so because for me, it was the absolute key to doing an ATG pass.

Observe the angels from the Wiki. 5 Degrees for an ATG is almost flat to the skin. So I start this stroke flat to the skin and lift just enough to cut as the stroke is made.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...ing_angles.jpg

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Hi,

I've followed your advice on my last couple of shaves, starting with the spine of the razor flat on my skin and lifting slightly to find the angle I want. It's helpful, but it will take a while to get everything coordinated properly.

There's a lot going on at the same time when I attempt these strokes. The hair on the underside of my chin grows east --> west. I've experimented with lots of grips seen in different posts and videos, but I'm still looking for one that feels comfortable. The chin is a 1958 model, and it requires a fair bit of stretching during the process.

I know the chin is a problem area for lots of folks, so I'll keep trying to to figure it out. Given that my chin and moustache are my 2 biggest problem areas, I wish I had the option of growing a goatee. It would make my shaving a lot easier, but it's not a look I care for. Not on my own face, anyway.

Take care,
Ian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drifwood

Hi,

I've followed your advice on my last couple of shaves, starting with the spine of the razor flat on my skin and lifting slightly to find the angle I want. It's helpful, but it will take a while to get everything coordinated properly.

There's a lot going on at the same time when I attempt these strokes.

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Hi Ian,

You just stated it perfectly - there is a lot going on at the same time.

Unfortunately, it takes time to learn to get it all coordinated - and you only get to practice it once a day.:)

All of a sudden, one day, it just all comes together. After that happens, you can make small changes to different aspects of this without it changing other aspects. That to me is the sweet spot.

Cheers!
David

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drifwood

that ATG pass was a brute. It was an effort to relax and absorb the punishment, but I did so.

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Your above description should be a sign to stop. You should never have to take punishment during a shave, it should be comfort before closeness. Now, you could be one of the guys whose skin can tolerate an ATG pass, but many can't. If you decide to keep pushing it and eventually get great results then the more power to you. But if you just end up with redness and irritation over and over again just give it up. It isn't worth it.

There's definitely a learning curve. Take it slow, be mindful of what you're doing so you can duplicate what works. I'd recommend Nivea for the irritation. Before you know it, you'll be wanting to go to church to show off your BBS face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

Your above description should be a sign to stop. You should never have to take punishment during a shave, it should be comfort before closeness. Now, you could be one of the guys whose skin can tolerate an ATG pass, but many can't. If you decide to keep pushing it and eventually get great results then the more power to you. But if you just end up with redness and irritation over and over again just give it up. It isn't worth it.

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Thanks for your concern. I agree that it's not worth it to continue irritating the heck out of my skin just to get a minor improvement on results. I assume that this will be a temporary phase that shouldn't last too long, though.

My first WTG shaves a couple of months ago, with the lousy prep, the shakey-handed death grip, and a razor that was only as sharp as I could get it at that time -- all had me glowing red in all sorts of places. But I got past that phase in fairly short order (owing to lots of help from the wet shaving community).

In fact, the ATG on the chin didn't really leave that area any redder than the couple of times I was determined to get BBS there on purely XTG passes. Umpty-five passes in any direction will do that ;)

I guess the main thought behind starting this thread was to share with others who have been shaving with str8's for just several weeks (like me) that their progress might not continue in a straight line. I'm not feeling whipped by this at all. It's just another in a long series of challenges -- perhaps a little trickier than most. But if I hadn't made some pretty good progress in the previous 8 weeks, I wouldn't even be attempting ATG.

I'm going to use an expression that I don't even particularly like, but it seems to be appropriate to my SR shaving experience -- it's all good :)

I'm flying out for a 3 week vacation in the AM. I'm bringing my Robeson with me, but no strop, so I'll be using it sparingly (I'll see how well my forearm works in a pinch.) I'm actually wondering what a short hiatus might do to improve my shaves. I've often found that attacking a problem after a bit of a break brings good results.

Take care, I'll poke my nose in if I'm near a computer from time to time.

Ian

My advise will be FORGET ABOUT ATG shaving.
you don't have to shave ATG to get great shave .
Just learn right way how to use tool which is in your hand you will be fine.
what will help you
1 . good preparation. don't use cheap soaps.
2. Find right angle of your blade while you shave.
There is never will be exact angle lets say keep blade 20 degree you will be fine. Keep it flat to your face.
It is all relatively misguiding tirms.
You must find angle which your blade will shave easiest. that angle will be the right angle.
3.Try to learn scything motion shaving.
4. Properly honed blade.
5. Most important PATIENCE.
YOU WILL GET THERE. gl

I only do an ATG pass on my neck and then only when I want the closest shave possible, like a special occasion.

You're right, the first couple of times I was scared out of my wits. I was terrified that I was going to cut my jugular. After awhile, though, it became second nature.

Follow Robin's advice...Short strokes, with slight pressure applied. That ought to do the trick

Hi GL and JHenry,

I guess there's a reason that my ears were burning while I had a shave just a bit earlier.

It's almost as if I followed your advice before I read it. ATG on the bottom of my chin is a double-whammy because the whiskers lie east west. I have trouble trying to find a good way to get in there with the blade AND stretch the skin at the same time.

Long story short, I did come up with an alternative approach tonight, and my chin is feeling much better about the whole deal. I resorted to blade buffing. I'm not even sure if that's recommended with a str8, but it worked very well for me. I was able to do it XTG, which means north <-->south. I found it much easier to resist using too much pressure, and it really did a nice job. In fact, I used it on my upper lip too (on the troublesome areas), and got the smoothest upper lip I've gotten with a str8 until now.

I think the fact that these areas are convex (the lip is so when stretched over the teeth) makes buffing work here, I'm not going to try it for the hollows next to my windpipe, but I'm very pleased with the results I got from it.

I never was interested in against the grain just for the sake of doing that. I just had an annoying patch of stubble on the underside of the chin that didn't seem like it was going to disappear by any other kind of pass.

Now I have to get my bag packed. I'm not sure if I'll sleep before the cab gets here in 4 + hours, or make a pot of coffee and save the sleeping for the plane.

Thanks to all for their input and encouragement. And remember everyone ... there's more than one way to skin a chin, but maybe only one way to avoid it ;)

Take care,
Ian

I always use a ATG pass when I shave, I've never been able to get acceptable results without it. That changed this weekend when I took Sham's advice and tried to shave with only WTG and XTG passes, I used a razor he honed and sent to me.

It took four passes instead of three but the shave was amazingly smooth everywhere and my skin felt like a 4 yr olds! Now the question is.. are my edges good enough to achieve this?