Bigger is Better ! Or is it ?

A bit of an interesting shave on Wednesday evening ( interesting = disappointing ) . I decided to use my Bartmann 7/8 full hollow , stropped up and shaved . Jeez it was almost like shaving with a blunt knife , it left lots of those awkward opaque whiskers , yet the razor is sharp ( the same razor sliced my face twice when I fist shaved with it back in January ) .. Not being a fan of the HHT I tested with the thumb test and shaved my arm hair .. fair enough , Last night I took it for a few pass's on a Belgian blue -say about 8-10 then about 3 on the yellow , just to make sure it was sharp , tested again - fine ! prep'd and began shaving - urgg awful , finished with one of my 5/8 quarter hollows - which as always gives amazing results .. Then I thought !!!! is it possible that because the Bartmann is a full hollow 7/8 ( sings like a choir ) the blade is thinner that it flex's ever so slightly over my face -- my skin is very very soft , yet the smaller thicker blades do a much better job .
Just curious - is my skin type ( baby soft LOL !! ) incompatible with this style of razor or maybe it's just a newbi not yet mastering the technique and still not grasping the difference between a sharp razor and nearly sharp ......
It would be good to here opinions

That is a tough call. I would bet it's not sharp enough if you are pulling your skin taunt! I personally like bigger blades when I haven't shaved for a day or two and smaller blades for every day shaves.:cool:

Try shaving with it after you have 2 or 3 days worth of growth. I've noticed that my larger razors seem to do better that way. Of course YMMV.

I have both the blue belgian and the yellow coticule and the blue is a very slow hone 8-10 passes is nothing on it and 3 passes on the yellow is also nothing. If you need the blue probably 30 passes is the minimum and probably about 20 on the yellow is the minimum. Usually I use the norton 4K and then switch to the yellow.

I find the singing razors really hard to hone, myself. Lets assume that for the sake of argument that it is really sharp though (I don't think the fact that you cut yourself is acceptable evidence though, the shaving of the arm hair is more so).

I would think that a 7/8 singing razor might need a different angle than a 5/8 1/4 hollow in order to compensate for a little flex.

But my intuition tells me the bevel on the 7/8 may be too smooth. I'd go back to 4k and start over again if you dont' settle the problem.

I have the same problem though and gave up on meat cleaver singing razors a while ago.

And no, I don't really think bigger is better at all. I think guys who like bigger blades are just confused and are really secretly trying to say "heavier is better" which I'm thinking a 5/8 1/4 hollow may be heavier than a 7/8 Full.

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Originally Posted by Garry

Just curious - is my skin type ( baby soft LOL !! ) incompatible with this style of razor or maybe it's just a newbi not yet mastering the technique and still not grasping the difference between a sharp razor and nearly sharp ......
It would be good to here opinions

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I've got the same skin you have and have just as much failure and success with small and large blades in that regard. It's the edge that will cause problems, not the razor size. There is certainly a different muscular effort between larger (yes, heavier Alan) and smaller blade and using your razor incorrectly (ie. too much pressure, bad shaving angle, NOT STRETCHING ENOUGH) can cause irritation and other substandard results.

There's sharp and then there's SHARP! An edge which is not sharp enough or uneven will certainly have trouble cutting close and comfortable, but be careful not to go too far the other way. The problem I've been having has been in over polishing my edges and a wired edge will cut, but also pull my whiskers and irritate my delicate skin immensely. I think I've been forming wires by using too light pressure on the hone and too much time on higher grits. This may be part of your problem or it may not, but either way I think it's good food for thought.

X

Your 7/8 Bartmann simply isn't properly honed. Bartmann's are fine razors and when honed well shave wonderfully whether the beard is thick or thin. A number of the very best shavers I've got are 4/8 to 6/8. Big razors are beautiful, have a great heft and feel and are very desireable but the smaller razors are, in my opinion, easier to hone and take a better edge.

The larger razors need to be "thicker" in order to maintain adequate stiffness and their bevel seems to be more obtuse. The smaller razors can have more acute bevels and thinner blades without compromising their strength because there's less steel to bend. As a result, I think the 5/8 razors get outrageously sharp. They don't seem to hold an edge quite as well as the larger razors, but that makes sense because a more obtuse angle would put more metal and strength in the cutting edge.

I guess I'll just say that I think 5/8 and even 4/8 razors are vastly under-rated. Everyone has become fixated on the large razors - the larger the better. Where once, 5/8 was considered the standard sized shaver, many today think it's undersized and undesireable. Too bad, though, because they may be the ideal size for the ultimate in sharp shaving.

A question about human nature.. Do you guys think that some men would get bigger razors for the same reason they'd buy big flashy cars -- to make up for other size-related inadequacies?

P.S. I am not accusing anyone on this forum or trying to be a prick, just asking this out of psychological curiosity.

Ofcourse, that is why I choose 7/8 and 8/8's, to match my "personality"...

Dude, you're from the Balkans, which means a thick and heavy growth of beard. I'm one of those few aberrations with a relatively moderate growth, so I can get away with using 5/8 and 6/8. I wouldn't have a legitimate excuse to use one of those full inch wide monstrosities lol.

Good advice guys .... I'll take it to the Norton ;-)
The reason I used the belgians was simply down to not wanting to mess the edge up , bearing in mind I've still a long way to go in mastering my honing .. but a few passes on the norton won't hurt now that the advice is pointing to the edge not being sharp sharp ..

ps.. My fav razors ( errr all of them !!!!! ) happen to be 5/8 all 1/4 hollow

thanks agian everyone ... your advice as always is very much appreciated

Just a little update .. I took the Bartmann to the Norton and gave it a
1/5 1/5 3/5 then about 30 passes on a plain leather - and the Blade is considerably sharper ( well according to my thumb it is ) ... I may give it a try tomorrow morning - that will be two days worth of growth , then again I no doubt get impatient and have a nice shave this evening as I'm home alone

stay tuned :)

I find 3 general responses with the Thumb Test.

1. The razor feels very sharp and "bites" in to the thumb pad a little. I usually take this to mean the edge is actually not sharp enough. This edge will often produce an audible "ting" on the Hanging Hair Test or only break the hairs without cutting them.

2. The edge feels thin or papery. I usually take this to be an edge which has developed a wire edge. If this edge responds to the HHT at all again it's noisy.

3. The edge gently tickles the thumb pad. Needless to say, this is what I shoot for and gives the best HHT response.

X

No#3 sounds very much what I look for ... the description is way better than how I've tried to describe it .. I've not got enough stuble on my head to try the HHT and I've also seen Brian's pics of what happened to his finger , I used to use my girlfriends hair from her hairbrush but I found it way too soft , so for now I go with the thumb test - and being still wet around the ears I test a known sharp razor for comparision then the razor which is being worked on ... not ideal by any means as no two razors are alike but it still gives a rough guide ... One thing I have noticed about the larger full hollows they certianly can sing ...
Ah what the heck .. I'll try the best test later this evening - shave !!! :D

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Originally Posted by Garry

No#3 sounds very much what I look for ... the description is way better than how I've tried to describe it .. I've not got enough stuble on my head to try the HHT and I've also seen Brian's pics of what happened to his finger , I used to use my girlfriends hair from her hairbrush but I found it way too soft , so for now I go with the thumb test - and being still wet around the ears I test a known sharp razor for comparision then the razor which is being worked on ... not ideal by any means as no two razors are alike but it still gives a rough guide ... One thing I have noticed about the larger full hollows they certianly can sing ...
Ah what the heck .. I'll try the best test later this evening - shave !!! :D

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You are right that is the best test available. I can also advise you to get a cheap boar hair shaving brush and pull hairs out a little at a time and use that for the HHT. That hair equates well with your beard.

Great idea Rich... My hair is short so plucking individual hairs is a p.i.t.a.

Edit: And:
1) My cat's hair isn't representative of human hair.. It's too fine lol
2) My stylist friend would think I became a freak if i told her to bring me some from the salon lol.

6/8 seems to be my preferred size, although I like the big 7/8 and 8/8 meatchoppers, too. I seem to be able to get my W&B wedges sharper than anything else. I'd always read they were harder to hone, but I find the full hollow ones give me me most trouble. I get my W&Bs and the Wostenholm wedges to where they glide efortlessly while shaving, with no pulling and no irritation. I can do it with my full hollows, too, but not as consistently.

I have yet to try honing a DECENT blade. How long does it take for airmail to get from the U.K. to Canada?

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I have yet to try honing a DECENT blade. How long does it take for airmail to get from the U.K. to Canada?

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I posted a Razor to Vladsch and it took about 3 weeks or so ..... slower than the second coming imho LOL

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Originally Posted by RichZ

You are right that is the best test available. I can also advise you to get a cheap boar hair shaving brush and pull hairs out a little at a time and use that for the HHT. That hair equates well with your beard.

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Funnily enough I was using some hair from my badger brush and then thought " I paid a lotta money for this " so I stopped that , I think I have an old brush so I'll use that ... incidentally I shaved with the Bartmann this morning - it's better but still not as sharp as I'd expect .. back to the Norton this evening .!!!!

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Originally Posted by Garry

I posted a Razor to Vladsch and it took about 3 weeks or so ..... slower than the second coming imho LOL

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But we're so close! It's like a 4-5hr flight. And we have the queen on our $20 bill... I live on Queens Ave and close to the Queensway... She's still technically the head of state. That's it.. I'm taking a mailman from another neighborhood (so my mailman can still function) hostage! :D

If I'd know it was going to take that long I'd have jumped on a flight £99 direct from Glasgow .. Canada is high up on my places to visit .. I think it's a lovely place .

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Originally Posted by Garry

Funnily enough I was using some hair from my badger brush and then thought " I paid a lotta money for this " so I stopped that , I think I have an old brush so I'll use that ... incidentally I shaved with the Bartmann this morning - it's better but still not as sharp as I'd expect .. back to the Norton this evening .!!!!

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My first shaving brush was a cheap ($7.00) boar bristle brush. I hated it right away and gave it to my kids to pay with. Then some guy equated boar bristle with beards. I snatched back the brush and have been plucking it ever since. For me it works well. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

And we have the queen on our $20 bill... She's still technically the head of state.

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Actually Michaelle Jean the Governor General is. The GG has been since the constitution in 1981. Weird that the head of state is appointed by the Prime Minister. Not particularly democratic that, but say anything and the monarchists come swinging bats screaming about "Our Cherished Perliamentary Traditions!" :nono: Luckily her powers are largely ceremonial. Now if we can just get some of that unchecked power out of the Prime Minister's Office we'd be doing much better than complaining about 'The Queen's Representative in Canada'

X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Garry

I posted a Razor to Vladsch and it took about 3 weeks or so ..... slower than the second coming imho LOL

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Why does it take longer for a package to get to me (in Louisiana) from Canada than it does from Germany?