Considering how hard I had to work for money before I got laid of from Ford, I'd say I look at spending as more painful than fun. :beer1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Feng_Li
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Considering how hard I had to work for money before I got laid of from Ford, I'd say I look at spending as more painful than fun. :beer1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Feng_Li
Warning: ramble ahead!!
I'm starting to wonder if we can get a bit hung up on going WTG, XTG or ATG. Also the notion of what is a pass.
Recently I've been experimenting with trying ATG (with a little XTG) shaving only.
Reading the discussion here has got me re-focussing on my technique again and has really helped.
- I've lightened the pressure even more
- I've given more attention to how I was scything (I had actually strarted to curve my stroke... and (in)effectively doing a regular head on chopping cut)
- I've also given more attention to my stropping again - lighter and better
All of this has really improved my shave.
In the process I've also started to think of what has been said here
- BBS shaves WTG only, using good technique.
I've also thought about what I am actually doing - sometimes I am going ATG, sometimes XTG, sometimes I'm not quite sure.
In the end - maybe it doesn't bear thinking about too much. Maybe it is about discovering what works. If I can do it comfortably and efficiently, that's what matters.
My current shaving goal - working on most efficient and comfortable way to shave. (The closest analogy I can think of is doing a maze or drawing where you don't lift the pen until you are finished and don't cross any place twice... if that makes sense!?)
This does currently involve ATG/XTG shaving with scything... but if the shaving path involves some other direction I'm not really fussed.
Anyway - I find this approach relaxing and somewhat meditative.
Here endeth the ramble :) (I did warn you ok!!!)
All the best,
Michael
I agree with that 100%
I seldom go against the grain since it seems to shave too close for my skin type and ends up giving me ingrown hairs, but as far as WTG/XTG i really pay no attention.
I do not have the mirror time that Mark has. All I got is nearly 1 week growth.
I know the razors I have are not in single pass condition; and certainly, sadly not in daily_ish use for the 1 year without abrasive treatments.
I'd like to try for a fresh start. A careful rehoning, much needed face washing, and see what happens with water shave. :borg:
On the plus side this thread has many members reconsidering their technique. Looking at ways to get a better shave is always a good thing, right?
Unfortunately I think many members may be getting the wrong idea here. Whether or not I personally agree with him, I don't think Mark's (aka JMS) main point was to say that the ability to shave with water only is the ultimate litmus test for shaving ability. It seems that guys are starting to think that their technique sucks if they can't eck out a great shave with no lather. Now many are thinking that they have to test themselves with a water-only shave.
Although Mark may have eluded to this he never said point blank that everyone should be able to accomplish this. I know that I can't; it has nothing to do with my technique, but rather my skin type. And in his defense he never told me otherwise. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the original intent of this thread is to point out that proper technique can reduce the amount of pomp & circumstance (aka shaving rituals) that we have come to love yet have taken for granted as neccesity. I know I could cut down on my prep. But would I want to? Nope. :D
Take care,
Ryan
Good luck and don't go too quick. keep it slow and easyQuote:
Originally Posted by kevint
Have you tried it yet Ryan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
Don't assume it is impossible for you. Have you been shaving for many years? Your skin may be the problem but so could lack of experience. You wont know this for sure for many years but I wouldn't continue trying to shave "water only" if my skin continued to get irritated. seems common sense to me.
Last friday i tried Marks water only shave with my own variation. I tried it right after 95C (203F) sauna. After such heat treatment all hairs are very soft and the skin is already wet after sweating hard. It was a good shave on my cheeks but had to splash some water on my neck before razor moved smoothly. I think it is a matter of practice.
Usually i always shave after sauna for the reasons i just stated but this far i've used lather. I think i could do both ways, but without lather only after sauna.
I've been thinking this idea for few years now but haven't tried this far. Most people at my work usually shave with their disposables in sauna, in the heat. Using straight razor there is a no no, as i need mirror for shaving and mirrors wont work in sauna where heat and humidity are very high.
On Sunday, at last, I made my shave. Not doing what I said; attempt to get a 1pass edge. Instead i chose one from the box that had not been used in several months. It had been stropped when stowed away so after my shower, I opened it up and went to work.
On the cheek it was really quite easy; sometimes me jowls fool me into believing my blade edge really is beam of pure light obliterating the darkness of beardyness. Below the bottom lip are my most resistant and a place I find difficult to scythe. my mustache can be another tough spot, but the 9/16 made it easy to angle across. Which really showed the advantage of a good scythe motion
I needed 3 passes really. And more goin' over than I typically invest in. I also noticed substantial exfoliation which was pretty interesting to observe.
It was not a triumph, neither was it defeating. Writing now, I wish I had resharpened. It was quite the average, upon my plateau kinda shave, other than the volume of material removed.
I have tried water only previously with varied results. I would estimate a fair amount of success lies in waiting for 3+ days without shaving. I have largely forgotten what irritation feels like. But after shaving daily for a long stretch; water only, as I recall, was no pleasure. Tonight I may go for a super edge and see if that stands.
Even though I went over and over my face with the imp, and could see dead skin building up after the hair was gone, so I did some more; Bay Rum afterward deserves no special mention of burning.
I've been wet-shaving for my entire adult life, and now, in my mid-60s, I enjoy the ritual of shaving more than ever. I enjoy having a variety of shaving soaps and creams, and enjoy shaving with a good, hot lather, so I'll forego the water-only approach. My honing, stropping, and shaving techniques may well be lacking, but they work well enough for me. I enjoy my morning shave immensely -- it's the highlight of my day. And, ultimately, isn't that what it's all about -- just enjoying the Zen of the experience?
Not wishing to get on your bad side, but imho I would guess that all those things you describe enjoying, identifying with, are more accurately the opposite of zen. I'm no monk, but the pursuit of an end simply for the pleasure and self gratification of ritual and or sensual pleasure is not zen. That does not mean those things are bad or cannot be "zen". It's only that you cannot imagine going without them can be every bit as good and or enjoyable.Quote:
Originally Posted by sffone
Same at work anytime someone mentions how much it sucks doing what we're doing, or how they would love to be somewhere else. I remind them that it is not the circumstances here and now , but their inner resistance to what is that is making them suffer.
In much the same way Ryans identity as one with sensitive skin will continue to prove itself, justify its ends, and actualize until he shifts the direction of his conscious thinking toward having healthy, hardy skin.
:argue::fim::confused::borg:
Lol - perhaps one day?Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
For the record, I don't think I actually said I have any issues with my skin health. I rarely get any irritation from shaving - unless I shave ATG on the sides of my neck, attempt to shave everyday, or (worst of all) shave without lather :D Every now and then I attempt(with an open mind) to do one of those three things, thinking that maybe my face is more leather-like and it will be fine.... until the predictable happens. I'm hardly the only one with this dilemma.
There are some physical realities in life that (for the most part) remain unalterable. By this stage in my life I know what will happen, just as one doesn't have to be a philosopher to know what happens when you put a gun to your head and pull the trigger; not the kind of thing you can just 'think' away.....
BTW Kevin, please don't take the above too seriously. It's just me being philisophical in a smart-ass way :)
Didn't "The Matrix" teach you anything man? ;):DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
A man who knows what he wants and is comfortable with himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by sffone
Thank you for smiling Ryan. My day is off to a great start. Yours is the best advice: Don't take anything too seriously.
I shall not. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
Okay, admittedly, I took some liberty with the concept of Zen. I was simply trying to suggest that shaving should be a mellow, peaceful experience, and I felt no need to stay within the confines of correct philosophical discourse.
Exactly. cold water face lathered soap, reap, rinse and done. All Peaceful like; except for beards who find the whole event extremely violent
Just imagine the feeling of one blade shaving....wait...that's what is actually happening...
Gave this a shot the other day, and I have to say that it went a lot better than I thought it would. I couldn't shake the feeling that a cut was imminent, but I finished unscathed.
Good tip -- it certainly did highlight the technique.
I went ahead and touched up The 132 case brand. Stropped minimally. Left the den unimpressed with both my hone touch and razoring technique.
What can I say? not very good.
Skipped a day I think. gave 20 laps (to my a good Jelliot )each on 8k asagi leather strop/ stopped mid shave to lather some MWF.
What can I say? The goatee area loves its lathery soap.
Earlier I mentioned nailing it. Really 1 pass bbs soaped. In that zone-to me at least- there is no need of technique. You can intuit the angle and the blade strikes the deal
I really don't think for three, or a couple times I just happened to have outstanding methodology. As I recall my prep was nothing unusual. Same old soap. I doubt I was granted limited access to honemeisterdom. I am always doing that the same old stubborn way.
The one thing that I have always resisted in one way or another or felt I knew better or did not need was straps. And when I Zenithed. It was always with a freshly prepared carefully practioned strap of leather. (by prepared I mean freshly sanded, 220grit 320? napped leather-no oil no lather) At OK meet Lee said of my strap- "I can see you been using it" or slt.
It gets dirty looking, even now after resansdng it. I dont think that's normal is it>?
PS I like soap.
I think the majority of us do...and for good reason I am sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint