Straight Razor Ain't Cutting It

Literally, that is. First, I'd like to say hello to the forum, as this is my first post. I've been shaving with a straight razor for about three weeks now. I have yet to cut a whisker despite the fact that I have purchased and used two "shave ready" straight razors . The first one broke (scales) the second razor felt sharper, but it won't cut my whiskers. I've followed the shaving instructions to a T, as well as studied everything I can on this web page. The proper way to lather, I've shaved with the grain, across the grain, and against the grain, over and over, but nary a whisker comes off. I've also tried to sharpen the edge on the strop I bought with the razor, but I achieve the same results when I shave. This morning I finally shaved with my safety razor so that I wouldn't look so scruffy. Does anyone have suggestions that may be of help?

Thanks!
Cliff

did the razor pull during the shave?
Also stropping does not sharpen it just realigns the edge.

Could be a couple of things, possibly you rolled the edge of the razor while you were stropping, You might be using too much, or too small of an angle. Or possibly the razor wasn't totally shave ready. It's really hard to determine. For angles the razor should be about one spine width away from your face. Proper face prep is a consideration too.

Thanks Mainaman & Carrie,

No, there was no pulling feeling during shaving. Also, I experimented with different angles during my shaves. I shaved several times before stropping, so I don't think the stropping is the cause of the problem (although it could be now). Before shaving I wash my face with soap and water, then rinse.

Thanks,
Cliff

Alright here's the scoop. Since you're probably just starting out, don't expect the world's greatest shave during the first week or two. When you say that the razors are shave ready, then they likely are, but poor technique will mimic a poorly honed razor every time. Don't worry about it too much, soldier on and things will start to really come together after the first couple weeks.

The other thing not mentioned is where you got the razors. Refer to the first paragraph if you bought the razor from either a reputable dealer here or from the classifieds. If you bought a 'shave ready' razor from ebay, and antique store, or if it has Pakistan stamped on the side, then you may have to either have the razor honed or in the case of the Paki razor, throw it away.

+1 on all the advice above. In addition, I'd suggest staying with the grain until you figure the rest out. When you shave with the grain, the whiskers should shave easily. If you have a bad angle, technique, or razor, then nothing good will come from shaving in other more-aggressive directions.

You hear this a lot on the forums but what is it????

Prep your beard really well then make the best lather you can manage, wet your face and lather up... Wait ,,, wait,,,wait about 2 minutes.. Now during that waiting you could be stropping the razor but most Honemeisters ask that you DO NOT strop before the first shave...

Now wet the razor.

And on your strong side using your strong hand stretching the skin by pulling up with the weak hand over the top of your head...Start at the Sideburn using a 20-30 degree angle (about 2 spine widths from the face) shave to the jaw line,,, No pressure toward the skin just a nice smooth stroke WTG...

The razor should not pull, tug, or skip, in fact you should be rather surprised with how easy it was... That is it, now do the other side and stop...

If it didn't work, then it might actually be the edge... and I still say might, because there are still things in there a Newb can mess up, but we eliminated a ton of them...

Really until this works well, there is no sense in trying the rest of your face, it will just hurt...


I really think you should contact the guy that honed them and ask what he thinks too...

I am having trouble believing this post.

If the razor is a quality razor and it sharp, and if the shaver is using the right technique, then whiskers will be cut. If the razor is sharp and the technique is bad, skin will be cut and we'll hear complaints on that score.

It's impossible to pass a sharp blade over lathered beard and have nothing happen. Either the razor is not sharp, or the technique is wholly deficient.

I've had sharp razors that did not cut very well, because I had the wrong angle or whatnot but I could still see cut whiskers down in the lather and in the sink.

Maybe the OP needs to post a video? This just seems wrong to me.

Sorry to sound cynical, but this is simple stuff. No mysteries. Sharp, smooth edge, right angle, correct force....hair is cut.

Sounds weird to me too. When my razors are not sharp, they pull as hell, they goes bumpy and they cut the whiskers unevenly. I can't even thin about going XTG or ATG, it would be masochistic.

My two cents.

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Originally Posted by LawsonStone

I am having trouble believing this post.

If the razor is a quality razor and it sharp, and if the shaver is using the right technique, then whiskers will be cut. If the razor is sharp and the technique is bad, skin will be cut and we'll hear complaints on that score.

It's impossible to pass a sharp blade over lathered beard and have nothing happen. Either the razor is not sharp, or the technique is wholly deficient.

I've had sharp razors that did not cut very well, because I had the wrong angle or whatnot but I could still see cut whiskers down in the lather and in the sink.

Maybe the OP needs to post a video? This just seems wrong to me.

Sorry to sound cynical, but this is simple stuff. No mysteries. Sharp, smooth edge, right angle, correct force....hair is cut.

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Sorry, but this happens with new guys all the time. They try hanging hair tests right after wiping oil off and when the razor won't cut the hair and then they use an improper angle which verifies their premonition. Most of the time, it is simply a poor angle and the razor scrapes or pulls vs. cutting hair. Then they play with the angles a bit and it cuts a few hairs. It may be simple to you, but for many new guys it is not. This is really a learned art and if the new guy just sticks with watching for a 30 degree or less angle and uses a light touch and short strokes followed by longer clean up strokes on one small area of the face until they get it, they will usually get it. I always take a razor back for re-honing and in almost every case, I can shave with the razor after stropping 50-60 times. I have really gone more to recommending a good stropping these days after the oil is wiped off. The worst thing that can happen is a rolled edge and the razor can always be re-honed.

Most new guys are pretty tentative when starting out and discomfort is far more common than nicks in my experience.

The biggest problem is posts like above and the new guy who is frustrated to begin with expecting the best shave in his life out of the blocks and looks to blame everything but himself.

Every person is not created equally with regard to dexterity and for some, it just takes getting used to holding the razor and practicing a little. The hand has a natural tendency to bend back with a razor in it producing from 45 to 90 degree angles. I have to watch this myself after all these years when it comes to the chin area.

The easiest part of all this is to re-hone a razor for someone, but you can't do the shaving for them. They do have to learn it on their own and in most cases eventually end up enjoying the sport a ton.

Have fun,

Lynn

That's actually what I was getting at--the problem, assuming the razor is sharp, has to be technique. What I'm doubting is whether the OP is applying what he's reading online as consistently as he thinks.

I'm still a newbie as well, having only started in April, and if I've learned anything, it's that I never am doing things quite as correctly as I thought I was. After 4 months I am finally feeling like I get it.

I wasn't trying to be unkind, just pointing out that the original post seems to pose an unlikely scenario: a sharp razor and correct technique producing no results of any kind. One of those has to be incorrect, either the razor isn't sharp or the technique needs to be examined.

I could not agree with Lynn more as a newbie myself (about 2 months in) I still have not been able to do a successful HHT and I've completely written them off at this point. If the razor shaves well I don't care what it does to my hanging hair if it doesn't shave well again don't cate about my hanging hair. That said for my first couple shaves I couldn't get the razor (honed by Lynn) to cut. It just wouldn't do it, I didn't go so far as to say the razor wasn't sharp I was smart enough to know that odds were against my razor being the one that slipped through the cracks. It was me so I stuck with it and asked for help, and that's just what I got. I listened to it and used it all some worked some didn't but the biggest help was angles. Countless people told me this and it is the biggest thing for me, the 30 degree angle is a guide. Every razor I own is different vary your angle till you find one that works. Just keep trying and it will get better if you truely believe the razor is dull send it off to one of the professionals here. I suggest Lynn just so that you know you have a working razor others might be just as good or better at honing IDK but experiance=consistency and right now you want to limit as many variables as possible. If you still have problems you know that it is your technique. GL

I think we're off what the OP said. His first post was pretty strong.

He said that (a)he had a shave-ready razor, (b) had exhaustively studied the material on this site and (c) had followed al these instructions "to a T" for three full weeks, shaving WTG, XTG, ATG but (d) was not cutting any hair.

I wasn't saying newbies don't have problems. I'm a newbie, I have problems. But nearly always, I would not say I'm following all instructions exactly--I nearly always end up mistaken on that point and someone thankfully corrects me or gives me an idea to try because I've described specifically what I'm doing well enough to get a "diagnosis" of my problem.

My little brain has trouble seeing how everything the OP said could be accurate, though I'm sure he's trying his very best. Something there has to give, and I imagine it's technique. If the razors were bad, 3 weeks of shaving all those directions would produce more than a question on a bulletin board, but a 9-1-1 call!

He needs to give us more information about his razors, strop, lather, technique, etc. Something here needs to be clarified.

I hope I'm not being obnoxious here, but this just seems odd.

OP post the razors you use and the strop as well. Can you tell us the technique you use for shaving as far as angles and strokes? It's cool to see that there are so many people willing to help! :) *kudos to best straight razor forums!*

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Originally Posted by LawsonStone

I think we're off what the OP said. His first post was pretty strong.

He said that (a)he had a shave-ready razor, (b) had exhaustively studied the material on this site and (c) had followed al these instructions "to a T" for three full weeks, shaving WTG, XTG, ATG but (d) was not cutting any hair.

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Well, he also didn't mention that he was cutting his face either. I just can't believe that you can run a blade down your face, across your face, and up your face and have nothing happen. Unless it's a titanium beard.

Try seeing if the razor or razor's will shave arm hair or not. If they will cut arm hair they will at least cut whiskers, not saying it will be comfortable but it should cut them. How much growth are you trying to shave?

I almost gave up myself after a few weeks but as others have said, the face needs to get used to the new "going w/ the grain" tecnique req'd of straight razor use. Also, wetting the beard and allowing ample time for the whiskers to soften is essential. That being said, there is a certain "english" in your technique that you must acquire that no reading of diagrams will replace. Once you get that "feel" of holding the razor at the proper angle, @ 30 degree's, and stretching taunt the skin properly, you will attain your goal. This, assuming the blade is, in fact, sharp enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lynn

The hand has a natural tendency to bend back with a razor in it producing from 45 to 90 degree angles. I have to watch this myself after all these years when it comes to the chin area.
Lynn

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A keynote speaker at a recent medical convention reported the results of research about the way a radiologist examines a radiograph. Using sophisticated equipment researchers tracked the eye movements of the radiologists as they examined medical images. When one radiologist missed an abnormality in the image of a patient his response was "I always examine that area in patients" with this given malady. He insisted that he'd examined that area closely in the image at hand despite the fact that the tracking equipment showed that he NEVER looked at that area.

While this may seem an obtuse analogy, the reality is that despite our best efforts/intentions, we often do not do what we would swear we are doing. It's easy to think we have the proper angle, an another thing entirely to actually have the proper angle. Although I've only been str8 shaving since May 1st, I find that angle makes a huge difference in the quality of my shave. Like Lynn, I find that maintaining a proper angle on the highly curved surface of the chin is challenging.

My advice is to be patient and constantly be cognizant of your angle.

Yes, straight shaving is not rocket science, but as with any new endeavor there is a learning curve.

Good luck. It will get better. For me, what once was drudgery now is one of the highlights of my day. (OK, it doesn't beat getting a hug from my 6 year old daughter, but it's close:))

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Originally Posted by LinacMan

Good luck. It will get better. For me, what once was drudgery now is one of the highlights of my day. (OK, it doesn't beat getting a hug from my 6 year old daughter, but it's close:))

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My daughter turns 10 months old tomorrow, and seeing her smile when I walk in the door is divine.

More often than not, I believe that your first WTG pass should be with blade less than 30 degress. In fact, placing the blade almost flat or flat on your skin works well, and is often recommended by old time barbers manuals. Even with a somewhat less than sharp razor, the "almost flat" approach will result in some shaving off of whiskers.

After the first "almost flat" pass, relather and continue shaving. But, this time with the typical 30 degree angle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LinacMan

Yes, straight shaving is not rocket science, but as with any new endeavor there is a learning curve.

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And I should know...YouTube - Brain Surgeon - That Mitchell & Webb Look , Series 3 - BBC Two

Ok, all funnies aside. I have to agree that something is amiss with the OP's post. If all he says is correct, there should be hairs being cut.
I'm curious about a fewthings: Where did you get this razor and who told you it was shave ready? If it was indeed a shave ready razor, then there is a possibility that the edge has been rolled from improper stropping.

Brain Surgeon? Hilarious!

Still....not exactly Rocket Science....

:rofl2:

Wow, I certainly didn't expect this much feedback, but I thank you all for it.
So many questions...where to begin?

- Shave Ready: I bought the used razor from a well-known used razor person on the web who told me the razor is "shave ready". I've already gotten into trouble from the moderator by mentioning his name in my initial post, so it has been deleted and won't be mentioned again, suffice to say, he's a good guy and I have no problem with him.

- Methods: I'm following the methods of shaving that I have studied on the seller's literature which accompanies his razors. I have also been reading and watching the tutorials on this site as well as others.

- Newbie Expectations: Contrary to what one respondent said about new guys, no, I am not expecting a "great shave on the first try", nor am I "blaming everything but myself". I'm figuring I'm the root of the problem, or else the razor really isn't shave ready.

In retrospect, I'm thinking it's a little of both (me and the razor). Like someone said, there should be some whiskers cut. Every time I shave I search for minuscule whiskers in my sink but I see nothing but soap. I will continue shaving WTG and see what happens over the next week, and if it continues I will see about finding someone to hone the razor. Does anyone know of a razor person in the Seattle area?

Thanks for all your suggestions,

Cliff

Consider this your official invite :D

http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...a-meet-up.html

Mark that on yer calendar, bring both yer razors out I'll sharpen them right at the meet for you, regardless if you get them working by then, they will need a tweak anyway ...

For me, persistence was the key. As I said, I learned from just reading what was available on the net c. 2004 so I was almost to the point of giving up. Applying the correct amt of pressure w/ the blade at the proper angle is something that takes a little time & effort to achieve at least for me. It took me a month to get to the point of being comfortable handling the razor properly and gaining confidence in my abilities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Consider this your official invite :D

http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...a-meet-up.html

Mark that on yer calendar, bring both yer razors out I'll sharpen them right at the meet for you, regardless if you get them working by then, they will need a tweak anyway ...

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Glen,

It's guys like you that make SRP such a great community!

I think that one of my first straight shaves managed 6 passes and hardly cut a whisker. I was too tentative and the angle was all wrong. It's just practise.

Possibly, the razor was not honed properly. Probably, it was. Help has been offered, and the poster's problem will sort itself out.

The smart-aleck in me wants to ask, "Now, you know the wide edge of the razor is not the edge that cuts...it's the skinny edge you're using, right?"

Don't worry, I'm just kidding! :)

Reminded of the lady who complained that the "foot switch" on her computer was broken...it was the mouse...

Like the man says in Zorro: "The pointy end goes into the other man!"

Just foolin' about here.

salish,

Out of curiosity, what is your hair color? My facial hair is mostly gray/white and I, while not looking for it specifically, have yet to see whiskers in lather after a shaving stroke. If your hair is light colored you probably will have difficullty in seeing shaved off stubble. What is the feel of whiskers on your face after an attempt at shaving; what is their appearance on your face if you look at yourself closely in the mirror? If your razor is not cutting at all, it would be as dull as a butter knife - and I bet it ain't that dull.

You may want to try contacting the seller to see if he would be willling to touch up the edge for you - that should eliminate one potential problem if the touched up razor works for the seller, it should work for you.

The references made to the angle of the razor to your face generally talk about the "30 degree angle." For me this has always been difficult to measure as my protractor always gets in the way of my razor. :) Try watching the angle you hold the razor while you're shaving and keeping it so the spine is off your face by about its own thickness. This works for me.

The other shaving angle is the attitude of the edge of the razor to the direction of travel or the shaving path. The edge need not be perpendicular to the direction of travel, as a matter of fact I've seen illustrations from barber manuals that advise holding the edge at an angle to the direction of movement. This will become more automatic for you as you get accustomed to using the razor. Just don't slice with the stroke, that is pull it sideways as make the stroke. With that type of movement you will find that you razor makes a fine scalpel.

good luck, good shaving

:beer2:

This may be a long shot, but I wonder if you are dragging the edge at an obtuse angle to the skin. If the 30 degree rule is misinterpreted to actually be a 150 degree angle, this could account for narry a whisker being cut while the whole time keeping what is apparently a 30 degree angle. It would also account for the fact that you don't mention that going ATG with heavy stubble and not cutting whiskers is causing you exquisite pain. All those things make sense if it turns out you're trying to shave using the razor in a strop action. Sounds silly, but I've found in life that you can never assume anything.

I wonder how our salish is doing considering all our sage advice?

:beer2:

My fear is by now he bears a striking resemblance to Rumpelstiltskin.

Well Flyman, someone close to me who knows nothing about straight shaving taught i was doing it like you described, 150°. After being shocked by what 30° meant, his excitement about straight shaving totally disapeared and was replaced by a big doubt about the sincerity of my taste for a healthy long living! lol

J-P

I see you talked about watching tutorials. Being new to this myself about same amount of time as you I watch as many as I could. If you go on YouTube there is a member on these forums I believe Jockey who has great video tutorials I have to say his helped me out the most I can not say enough good things about them. Give those a look and see if they help you out as much as they did me. Good luck and stick with it the shaves will get better and soon you will look forward to the nice relaxing moments you get while shaving