Conflicting Information

So after exhausting myself for a few days reading various sources of information, i've come across a few inconsistencies in the data.

This in particular is in regards to what happens to hair in the prep process.
All agree that the face needs to be cleaned, but some take the stance that the pre-shaving cream and lather serve to soften the hairs making them easier to cut.
Then other sources say this is an incorrect assertion, as they actually serve to take the oil out of the hair so it can harden and provide more resistance against missing the blade making it easier to cut.

Gentlemen, insight?

My experience suggests that pre-shave prep serves to soften the facial hair.

I think you are worrying over what doesn't matter. All will agree that shave prep is one of the three most important parts of a good shave. My prep is pretty much a good face scrubbing with hot water & body soap...typically in the shower, shaving immediately after toweling my head & body off...not the face. I want it to stay very hydrated. Follow that with good shaving form and a sharp razor and you will end up with a great shave. Take any one of the three I just listed and the shave will suffer.

We surmise a lot around here. I suggest you read, experiment, and then do what you find works best.

I dont mean to make it sound like the end of the world.
But still, completely opposing points, both to be taken as legitimate and "logical"
thats a bit quizzical, and not that i have OCD or anything... but its also annoying. It discredits both sources, and is disheartening to see.

Does anyone have a legitimate, scientific explanation for what is happening, and why one side is right and the other is wrong?

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Originally Posted by Rome

Does anyone have a legitimate, scientific explanation for what is happening, and why one side is right and the other is wrong?

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Not me. I tried, but never came to a good understanding of the cold water / stiff stubble school of prep thought. Eventually you'll just have to experiment for yourself if you want to see which side you belong to. If you don't, then it doesn't really matter anyway, because both methods can provide all the prep you need for a clean shave

I lather up with hot lather and shave, noting the amount of forward force required to shave. After that area cools, to shave the area it takes slightly more forward force. Doesn't this demonstrate that warmth softens instead of hardens? For, if it hardened, it would take more force when warm.

Under my chin, there are some areas that shave worse when soft. In fact, I splash cold water on those areas at times to make the hair stand up stiffer.

Take a piece of cold wet hair in your hand and swish it against your other hand. Do the same after the hair is hot and wet, and it is softer, more whippy.

I just can't buy that warming and wetting hair makes it harder. It might make it turgid and soft. But, turgid and engorged with water is different than harder.

removing oil and grease from hair would harden it, and this particular source claimed that the various shaving soaps/creams/w.e had alkalines that would do precisely that, in order to make shaving easier

With this it is a simple case of try it both ways and see which you like better. I'm a cold water less prep is more guy but YMMV. :beer2:Regardless of what science or anyone says it is what feels good to your face when the shave is done.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

I think you are worrying over what doesn't matter. All will agree that shave prep is one of the three most important parts of a good shave. My prep is pretty much a good face scrubbing with hot water & body soap...typically in the shower, shaving immediately after toweling my head & body off...not the face. I want it to stay very hydrated. Follow that with good shaving form and a sharp razor and you will end up with a great shave. Take any one of the three I just listed and the shave will suffer.

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+1 on this...

As for the scientific evidence:

Heat and alkalinity allow for breaking up the hydrogen bonding that occurs in the Keratin proteins of hair. These proteins confer hair the structural stability it possesses for normal function. Breaking up what holds hair together (think glue) will make it easier to cut them.

As for oil...The main reason you remove "old oil" is because it is the site where dead cells, bacteria, skin secretions (toxins and such) end up in. This hardens throughout the day, plugging up the pores (through which your hair is sticking out). Plugged up pores mean less "breathing" of the follicle and moisture retention of your skin/hair. Exogenous oil is not used to soften the hair, per se...it provides lubrication. Oil bonds to hair's protein (H-bonding and hydrophobic - or oil loving part - interactions) and is used to effectively allow the creation of a barrier that helps your skin better retain it's moisture...well, I can see why people think that is softens hair :). Removal of oil does not harden hair directly...it leads to effective breathing of underlying skin cells and moisture loss, which causes dryness and "cracking".

Now, what cremes/soaps do is provide you with 1) oil (fats etc...), 2) glycerin (moisture retention), and 3) alkalinity (H-bond breaking). All these factors and heat play a role in softening up hair and getting it prepped for cutting.

IMO, the reason that people report having closer than normal shaves with cold water is because in the presence of cold water, the skin around the hair follicle retracts/shrinks, effectively exposing more of the hair to cutting...after shaving in cold water, your skin will return to your normal temperature of 37ºC, thus engulfing more of the hair...this leads to a closer shave. Personally, I prefer a warm lather than a cold one.

I hope this helps, :)

And there you have it in a nutshell...shave on!!

If you rub your face with dry ice the hairs will freeze solid and you won't even need a razor to shave, just break them off.:)

Or, like the lumberjacks in Paul Bunyan's camp, who had beards so tough that the whiskers resisted all razors and most axes the only solution for them was to hammer the whiskers in and chew the stubble off from the inside.

I'm sure this is not at all germain to the original question, but I've always admired those who can find solutions to knotty problems.

:beer2:

My totally amateur opinion is that it's both, in a manner of speaking.

I would guess that moisture would fatten up the whiskers, and thus make them stand up a bit, presenting a better target to the blade and offering just enough resistance to make the blade cut rather than have the whisker just flop over and have the blade glide over top of it. The very same moisture would also soften the texture a bit making the blade "bite" on the hair a bit better and be generally easier to cut. I don't know if "hard" and "soft" are the exact terms to use.

But the best word on this is: just try different approaches and see what works. Barbers in bygone days seemed to think heat was best. I never heard of an old-time barber wrapping a patron's face in ice-cold towels before a shave, and bragging on "cold lather."

But what do I know. I still have nicks and cuts healing!

There's a lot of pseudoscience on these forums.

All you need is a sharp razor, a decent brush, a good strop, decent shaving soap or cream and dexterity. You'll need to find out what works for you.

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Originally Posted by LawsonStone

My totally amateur opinion is that it's both, in a manner of speaking.

I would guess that moisture would fatten up the whiskers, and thus make them stand up a bit, presenting a better target to the blade and offering just enough resistance to make the blade cut rather than have the whisker just flop over and have the blade glide over top of it. The very same moisture would also soften the texture a bit making the blade "bite" on the hair a bit better and be generally easier to cut. I don't know if "hard" and "soft" are the exact terms to use.

But the best word on this is: just try different approaches and see what works. Barbers in bygone days seemed to think heat was best. I never heard of an old-time barber wrapping a patron's face in ice-cold towels before a shave, and bragging on "cold lather."

But what do I know. I still have nicks and cuts healing!

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Lawson,
That's not an amateurish opinion at all...in fact, very astute observation :tu. In fact, you are somewhat right. Human (and other similar) hair can absorb as much as 30-40% its weight in water. That's not small amounts. That's why keeping the whiskers moisturized during your shave is recommended. The facial cleaning that we hear everyone talk about is not so much for the benefit of the hair per se, but to clear out the pores and allow the skin to "breathe", which facilitates production of natural oils (or sebum) through the sebaceous glands to keep skin moisturized, after and during your shave. Keeping the beard moisturized is the lather's job...Using glycerin (which soaps/cremes have a lot of) helps draw moisture from the environment and keep it onto the beard, which in turn keeps the beard soft. The heat breaks up the H-bonds in hair and facilitate shaving/cutting. There is a fine balance between heat/moisture...too much heat and you evaporate moisture and too little heat, the less H-bonds will break...Yin and Yang. With practice, we get better in determining what this balance is.

Thanks

I don't know the answer to the question, but a couple of the theories already presented sound pretty bloody good to me. I've tried both warm and cold water shaves, and both work for me. My theory is that warm is a luxory, and cold is more practical if you don't have access to a hot water system. Minimal prep also works for me. The stubble seems to be nicely removed in both cases. 90%BBS (I have a couple of awkward angles that have defied all attempts at 100% BBS. I'll get 'em though. One day.).


Mick

Agreed, you don't even need the internet or SRP either, but we have them.

What we're doing here is having fun and sharing impressions.

Beats heck out of work...wait, I'm at work...

...gotta run!

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Originally Posted by Kees

There's a lot of pseudoscience on these forums.

All you need is a sharp razor, a decent brush, a good strop, decent shaving soap or cream and dexterity. You'll need to find out what works for you.

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+1 on BladeRunner.

To add to it, start straight shaving as there is no substitute for experience.

Pabster

Yeah, i started a couple months back.
Obviously there is no substitute for experience.
But theres something to be said for a deeper level of understanding.

Like how a child views a sunrise, as opposed to how an adult might view it.

Anyways, some interesting viewpoints, thanks to everyone for pitching in their two cents - even the liquid nitrogen was interesting, though impractical =P

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

My prep is pretty much a good face scrubbing with hot water & body soap...typically in the shower, shaving immediately after toweling my head & body off...not the face. I want it to stay very hydrated. Follow that with good shaving form and a sharp razor and you will end up with a great shave. Take any one of the three I just listed and the shave will suffer.

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Thats the routine I use too. Its either that, or sit @ w/ a hot towel on my face which is out of the question for me.

I have done both hot and cold prep....BOTH work.As some have said already ,experiment and see what ya like.They both have merit,it's really comes down to preference.Remember Straight shaving really is a primitive if not very effective thing.It's pretty straight forward and you can make it as simple or as complex as you want to. I am a cold shaver and love it,but as I said I've done both and both work fine IMHO. :medvl: Good luck to you and good shave ! "You're a daisy if ya do ". ~Doc Holliday~

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Originally Posted by Rome

removing oil and grease from hair would harden it, and this particular source claimed that the various shaving soaps/creams/w.e had alkalines that would do precisely that, in order to make shaving easier

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It is my understanding that if you removed the oil/grease, and then let the hair dry, then it would become stiffer.

However, when we clean/lather, we are removing oil but also hydrating. The removal of oil actually helps the hydration process, thereby softening the hairs, not hardening them.

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Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

+1 on this...

As for the scientific evidence:

Heat and alkalinity allow for breaking up the hydrogen bonding that occurs in the Keratin proteins of hair. These proteins confer hair the structural stability it possesses for normal function. Breaking up what holds hair together (think glue) will make it easier to cut them.

As for oil...The main reason you remove "old oil" is because it is the site where dead cells, bacteria, skin secretions (toxins and such) end up in. This hardens throughout the day, plugging up the pores (through which your hair is sticking out). Plugged up pores mean less "breathing" of the follicle and moisture retention of your skin/hair. Exogenous oil is not used to soften the hair, per se...it provides lubrication. Oil bonds to hair's protein (H-bonding and hydrophobic - or oil loving part - interactions) and is used to effectively allow the creation of a barrier that helps your skin better retain it's moisture...well, I can see why people think that is softens hair :). Removal of oil does not harden hair directly...it leads to effective breathing of underlying skin cells and moisture loss, which causes dryness and "cracking".

Now, what cremes/soaps do is provide you with 1) oil (fats etc...), 2) glycerin (moisture retention), and 3) alkalinity (H-bond breaking). All these factors and heat play a role in softening up hair and getting it prepped for cutting.

IMO, the reason that people report having closer than normal shaves with cold water is because in the presence of cold water, the skin around the hair follicle retracts/shrinks, effectively exposing more of the hair to cutting...after shaving in cold water, your skin will return to your normal temperature of 37ºC, thus engulfing more of the hair...this leads to a closer shave. Personally, I prefer a warm lather than a cold one.

I hope this helps, :)

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Better explanation than mine :)

Actually some very good info...thanks!

I give up on the "science"....I don't know what's
happening at the microscopic/molecular level.

All I know for sure is that if I prepare my face properly,
with cold water, and use a really sharp razor, I get a
great shave, without irritation.

Not so with hot water, hot lather. It must be my skin
type, or perhaps some other variable that eludes me.

I don't recommend it to anyone else, but it does work for
me.

Cheers,
Paul

I guess pre shave cleaning used for dirty skin, pre shave oil used for dry skin.