is stropping really necessary???

just a poser,,,to save time the other morning i bypassed my usual stropping laps and shaved straight out of the shower with an unstropped razor...surprisingly i found to be slightly more comfortable on my heavy stubble,,,2 pass, with and against grain to finish, no razor burn with no more strokes than usual, proraso aftershave and moisturiser. that got me thinking as i am always thinking/experimenting with new ways to customise my routine...next morning i didnt strop again and same result, then this morning only started needing more strokes to clear my face of hair basically 3 shaves before i needed to strop again, i always thought as a rule you stropped before every shave but i came to realise maybe i was wasting time stropping everday when it was not really required??? anybody else found this or am i alone?? :thinking:

I strop before every shave, there is a difference IMO. Besides who wants to stop and strop in mid shave? As long as you can get away with it, enjoy?

Same. the extra 90 seconds it takes to strop is worth it to me.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I strop before every shave, there is a difference IMO. Besides who wants to stop and strop in mid shave? As long as you can get away with it, enjoy?

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yeah i see what you mean about honing more regular if i bypass a regular strop, its not just about the feeling but also about razor maintenance! thanks for the reply :beer1:

People have been stropping razors for a very long time. it's one of the few things concerning razors that is considered mandatory.

In the 1961 barber manual excerpt (SRP Wiki) the book instructs barbers to always strop before shaving a customer. TBH I've never ever tried shaving without first stropping. It works so I ain't gonna fix it.

Take a DE blade, shave with a Feather and the first shave can be almost too sharp. The second shave smoother. From there it goes downhill every shave. I used to get 3 or 4 shaves and I would change to a new blade.

Stropping the razor straightens out and smooths the edge and prolongs the life of the edge before it needs a touch up. If there were an efficient way to strop a DE that would probably improve them too. Just IME.

I'm in the same boat with you. I can strop every 3rd shave or so, without noticing any real difference.

To get the most comfortable shave I strop deeply, with pressure. That is the way I was taught to do it, so that is the way I've always gravitated to.

I don't notice much difference if I strop really lightly as is usually suggested.

The problem is that I have a pretty rough face and can handle pretty much anything. Shoot I can even shave with an electric now and then.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

The problem is that I have a pretty rough face and can handle pretty much anything. Shoot I can even shave with an electric now and then.

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OMG !!! That is flintskin Alan from now on :rock:

While we're experimenting around here, I'm going to see how long one of my blades shaves well without stropping. My ritual has been to strop every evening and shave the next morning, but I'm going to see what happens if I forego stropping and see how many shaves it takes to notice a difference.

I got my Dovo back from Lynn and he, along with a few other "seasoned" veterans suggested to me to shave without stropping a few time. Even some really great mentors. It might have been my stropping that could have dulled down an edge if I was not careful in doing it. By not stropping, I was giving the razor the opportunity to provide me a fresh honed shave. Of couse Lynn stropped and shaved with it himself, but, I think it takes a little while for the razor to dull down enough to need "freshning up" on the strop.

I used to shave with 2 blade disposables. I never threw one away until I had shaved with it for at leat a month, or many shaves. I could tell. I could feel the razor not cutting like it used to, perhaps dragging a bit and not getting the job done on the first pass. At the end of the shave I THEN pitched it and started fresh again with a new razor. If I can shave that many times with a factory mass-produced blade, I can surely shave a time or 3 with a straight before needing to give it 40 lashes. Besides, I really think about 10-15 good complete cycles are, or should be enough to bring the razor edge back to even again. You aren't shapening the razor on a strop, but merely re-aligning the fine edge to be even again.

You guys are really, really, generalizing here...

So much of this is a personal thing, you are not even saying what type of razor you are talking about here, you are generalizing the stropping itself.. What strops, even what type of strop..
This is not even taking into account the differences in beards...

Stropping recommendations are set up to get people started, they have never been set in stone, that 25/50 linen/leather on a standard length hanging strop is just a starting point... There are tons of variables to adjust from there, besides the fact that as you get better at it, your stropping becomes more effective...

The burnishing effect on the razor's edge from the strop is more important for removing micro corrosion, and helping the "smooth" not the sharp.. This leads to the skip a day thing... If you use the same razor each day you might be able to skip a day better then the guy that has a larger rotation, because the corrosion is less of a factor.. The burnishing effect on the bevel of the razor however, would be effected by changes in your routine..

I am just bringing up a few variables here, there are tons I am missing..

You really have to adjust your stropping to your unique situation, then realize that as you progress and learn it might adjust too...

And just because you can skip a day doesn't mean there is a valid reason to.

My fear has always been that if you don't feel much difference from stropping how can you be certain your doing it right?

Daily stropping maintains the edge of your razor and prolongs the life of your edge. Generally, even daily stropping does not eradicate the need for future honing. Very few are able to maintain an edge indefinitely on a strop. So yea, the wear on your edge is quite small during a shave, and you certainly can shave several times without stropping - but it will require honing (much) sooner.

I sometimes forget to strop, it could happen if I'm in a hurry on the morning before shuffling off to work. It leaves me with a feeling that I degraded the edge, and I'll strop it more thoroughly next time I use it.

As Glen mentioned, there are so many variables, that there is no way to make an overall 'correct' procedure for everyone. I finish my razors with .050 micron diamond oil and there is no need to strop for the first shave. But after the first shave it is necessary.
People shave off razors finished on 8000 stones, which I'm sure requires stropping.
The razors I have from say 1850 and before don't even finish better than off an Escher. The steel seems not as fine grained, and these very much require stropping.
Even American razors from the early 1900's, which hold an edge for an incredibly long time, are made so much more enjoyable with stropping.
I'm thinking that the accepted stropping to finish an edge, as well as prior to shaving, is simply easier and more 'face friendly', than to find the limits of what your face will tolerate if you don't.

Just my thoughts.
Ed
quicknicker

This has been a most interesting thread! Willy Hauser, who posted on here (amazing video of shaving) said he hones once a year and it's his Grandfather's razor. Since he's from Switzerland, it would be a safe guess to figures it's one of the Solingen razor lines since years ago there were LOTS of razor makers in Solingen German. Exact mfg. he never mentioned, but in his video he does not spend a great amount of time on the strop.

Some in this thread hone fairly firmly, while others, in this thread, do it feather soft. It would seem logical that for the strop to do any kind of dressing to the blade it has to have enough contact to "do something" but at the same time, not competely bend over the edge. My Uncle Herm would strop once in a while when he felt it needed it, and used newspaper (back in the early 1960's) to also bring it around along with his stropping. Honing was not a weekly or monthly thing wit him or his brother, Seth. My step Dad, Warren stropped some but not the 50-60 lashes that seem to be the norm. He would strap, as he called it, about a dozen times and shave.

As Glen said above, there are a lot of variables here at work. Some have thick whiskers and others not so tough. I have shaved with disposables about a month before finally retiring them. I judged on how they were shaving at the time. I suspect I'll do the same with my straights. Since I have several, like my collection of disposables in the bag, I would do like I do with them. I would lather up and shave. If it seemd to be a bit pully and not as face friendly, I would stop, and set it aside to be stropped later and merely grab up another blade and give it a go. Please tell me I'm not the only individual that has gone overboard and has more than one razor! Wouldn't this make sense? Let the razor tell you it needs honed as you shave with it?

However on any razor, save the Stainless Steel blades, there is always possibility of microscopic erosion at the blade edge due to humidity in the air. I don't store my razors in the bathroom for that reason. It would be prudent to give them a few licks before shaving just to freshen up that edge and help to eliminate that problem. If there is oil from your hand, ot other oil in the leather, and after shave strop gives a light protection to the razor's edge.

My 2 cents...

Please everyone don't go and strop your razors using pressure. Alan can get away with it and it works for him cause he has technique and experience. If you all try doing it you know what you will probably do to your razors.

I definately notice the difference when I dont strop. I strop before and after every shave and I find it helps keeps the edge in really good shape and extends the time between honings.

I can't speak for everyone, but my face can feel the difference between a stropped razor and an unstropped razor. I can even feel the difference between a well stropped razor and a poorly stropped razor. I guess if there's an upside to having sensitive skin it's instant feedback :D

IMO stropping is a daily necessity. If you don't believe me take a razor that hasn't been recently honed or touched up and try shaving without stropping once or twice. You'll be able to tell....

i'm not convinced that stropping really does anything at all, but i do it anyway. i know that stropping is supposed to realign the teeth on the edge, but is there any evidence of any difference between a pre-stropped edge and a post stropped edge. i mean can you see the difference under a microscope and observe aligned teeth or not aligned teeth? i really don't know the answer.

Try it both ways and see.

I take my razors out to 30000 grit on a Shapton and joint the blade after every other stone in the progression followed by four following strokes. I do this under 60x magnification and when I see the flash appear, I joint, and then it goes away. The stropping is unnecessary and the bevel goes right down to as perfect an edge as I've ever seen. Stropping after the 30k degrades the edge and I've seen that under magnification several times both with new and with vintage strops.

I'm thanking you, Howard for the nice Coticule I got from you. It has more yellow and less pink in it and may be a finer "grit" Coticule than the other one I have that has a kind of molted appearnce. I probably need to get a larger piece for honing, as that one is just a wee bit on the small side for complete honing on it. Maybe soon, a Sharpton 30,000 for the finish.

One small question. What you you mean by "jointing" in the honing process?

Some people think an Alka Seltzer only works if you drink it while it's bursting up the inside of the glass,imagine that, and some people seem to think you have to strop the razor in the morning, near the bathroom sink, and then shave with it while it's still, I don't know, vuvving or something. I have never stropped just before, no thank you sir!
I take care of that the night before, after I have put a parade shine on my shoes, usually whilst I'm otherwise moronically watching the goggle box. Who says men can't multitask!

I typically strop my razor the night before, 25 linen/50 leather. Then in the AM I give it about 10 laps for good measure.

I also find with many of my razors that the ATG pass is helped if I give the razor a few laps on the strop between the WTG and ATG passes. Not all razors, but some.

Assuming a well honed, quality razor and correct technique, stropping does contribute to the smoothness of the shave, but as has been said, lots of other variables intervene and one has to work out what fits one's own experience best.

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Originally Posted by fitzpatrick

just a poser,,,to save time the other morning i bypassed my usual stropping laps and shaved straight out of the shower with an unstropped razor...surprisingly i found to be slightly more comfortable on my heavy stubble,,,2 pass, with and against grain to finish, no razor burn with no more strokes than usual, proraso aftershave and moisturiser. that got me thinking as i am always thinking/experimenting with new ways to customise my routine...next morning i didnt strop again and same result, then this morning only started needing more strokes to clear my face of hair basically 3 shaves before i needed to strop again, i always thought as a rule you stropped before every shave but i came to realise maybe i was wasting time stropping everday when it was not really required??? anybody else found this or am i alone?? :thinking:

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It seems to be customary to strop before each shave. I do it because it is,,, the thing to do and have never tried not stropping before my shave. But, if not stropping works for you, then don't strop. I'll continue to strop before shaving because it seems to be the thing to do: it's the case of finding a good rut and continuing to drive in it.

:beer2:

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Originally Posted by Howard

I take my razors out to 30000 grit on a Shapton and joint the blade after every other stone in the progression ...

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Still kind of curious exactly what you mean by "joint the blade"?

I got rushed this morning and forgot to strop before I started, and noticed immediately that something was off. It probably depends some on the blade whether or not you could skip a day; I was using a Boker extra-hollow which is normally my best 1-pass shaver but is also the thinnest ground blade I have. A heavier blade might hold up a little better through a shave and be more usable for a second day, though.

Ended up having to pause for stropping after finishing one cheek. Normally, I save a bit of time by stopping after I lather since I'm giving the oil/soap a bit of time to soften things up as much as possible and might as well put that time to some use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fitzpatrick

just a poser,,,to save time the other morning i bypassed my usual stropping laps and shaved straight out of the shower with an unstropped razor...surprisingly i found to be slightly more comfortable on my heavy stubble,,,
....snip...:

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I expect that you had previously stropped the razor.
It is not outside of expectations to get a number of
shaves without stropping each time.

A strop does a number of good things to a razor...
and it also pays to be systematic about stropping.

I was honing a couple of blades and got distracted
for a bit after honing at 12K. In the time of this
distraction there was a thin layer of rust...
After stropping on canvas it was gone. After stropping
with leather it had the finest layer of strop dressing
protecting the bare steel from rust.

Stropping before a shave removes the last bit of
lather that might be left from yesterday. The
leather also does a fine polish of the edge in
addition to straightening it.

But skip a day or two... sure as long as
you do not make a habit of it. Adjust
as your shave tests indicate.

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Originally Posted by bmgreene

...since I'm giving the oil/soap a bit of time to soften things up

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Oil?? I use that Wal-Mart Van Der Hagen round shaving soap. $1.56 or so. I used it with my 2-blade disposables getting my face wet, lathering up, putting it on and start shaving. No problems. If I can't whack them off by putting on just lather, and the 2-blade is a softer shave, I'm not doing it right.

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Originally Posted by rickboone

Try it both ways and see.

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Astoundingly Brilliant! :dropjaw: YMMV!

If any of you have any thoughts that stropping doesn't do anything try this,next time you need a knife for something ,make your first cut,then strop it on something,newspaper an old strop or any other piece of leather,if the knife was sharp to begin with you'll feel the difference immediately.That should convince you

It has been said many times on this site by men more knowledgable than me, "stropping is an acquired skill and takes time to learn." I really didn't buy in to their wisdom, not until I blunted my first razor and took a hunk out of a perfectly good strop. So late smart!!! What makes sense to me is the simple fact that the very fine edge of a well honed razor will oxidize unless it is well protected. One of the easy ways to rid the edge of the oxidized material is to smooth it with a strop, a good strop. Recently I bought such a strop from Jimmy R. I am truly amazed, now, just how much the edges of my razors have improved. And how easier it is for me to use them. Stropping, to me, is an acquired art. IMHO it is essential to achieving the results that I want.

:beer1:wow, mixed opinions i see, the guy who said there are too many variables to judge is right on the money and i have to make clear the fact that i am very experimental and dont just follow previous peoples practices like a sheep, i am not scared to sacrifice a razor to try something out and was not suggesting not stropping at all! the trial lasted 3 days so i just got my edge back afterwards no problem (dovo en vogue micarta), i guess i must have adapted quickly to compensate for an unpolished edge i have been a butcher/boner for years previously and know a thing or two about an edge.. pbx system finishing on polished steel really works for my cut but others hate that system (but i was the one waiting for them to finish before the next quarter got broken down) thanks for posting all!

Factors to consider:

lifespan of average razor till unsatisfactory and needing a refresh on the hone

quality of shave after 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. without stropping

stropping efficacy of shaver

facial hair type/skin type

depth of typical shave (1 pass, 2 pass, 3 pass, blue pass (sorry, Dr. Seuss)

Me.. 3 weeks tops for every razor I've tried. About a year's open razor shaving. Can tell between unstropped and stropped (sensitive skin like Ryan82). DE and disposable edges last between 3-5 shaves, Mach3 can go a week and a half but the last shaves are ridiculously long and stupid. Not a thick beard but some really tough hairs to contend with, which give very strong feedback to the quality of the edge.

I could hone well from the beginning, with the exception of a bad hone in the progression which needed replacing (but got the first eBay done great!). Stropping is the harder skill to learn and master, for me. It makes sense because it is a finer level of detail!

I don't believe in stropping. I know it's importance!

I cannot find the thread, but hoglahoo actually did an experiment where he shaved with the same razor every day without stropping. I cannot remember how far he got before he broke down and stropped it.

Technique will also affect how much time can elapse between stropping.

For me though, I like that every time i shave the razor is as sharp as the previous shave. No diminishing returns like you get with disposables(cartridge and DE).

I feel like I would be doing myself a disservice by not stropping every day.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

To get the most comfortable shave I strop deeply, with pressure. That is the way I was taught to do it, so that is the way I've always gravitated to.

I don't notice much difference if I strop really lightly as is usually suggested.

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I agree wholeheartedly! My dad taught me to strop the same way. As long as the spine is kept close to the surface of the strop the edge won't get dulled. As he did, I even allow a fair amount of sag in the middle of the strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howard

I take my razors out to 30000 grit on a Shapton and joint the blade after every other stone in the progression followed by four following strokes. I do this under 60x magnification and when I see the flash appear, I joint, and then it goes away. The stropping is unnecessary and the bevel goes right down to as perfect an edge as I've ever seen. Stropping after the 30k degrades the edge and I've seen that under magnification several times both with new and with vintage strops.

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Howard,

You mean that the Shapton 30k grit may substitute stropping ? or leads stropping unecessary, or in that case detrimental ?
In that case, a pasted sub micron diamond strop would not make the same effect ?
What is "to joint" the blade ?

Sorry for the shooting, just wish to undestand more as I am intyending to jump on the Shapton boat...

Cheers,

Wal

I know when I increased the number of laps I do when stropping I noticed a difference in the smoothness of the shaves particularly on days when my stubble is long enough to be hard and wiry but not long enough to be soft as in beard growth.

Like others said some can get away with it but for me I like consistency of the feel of the razor so I strop before each shave.

Necessary or not, I think I'll sit right here on the fence on this one, until a kind member with access to a scanning tunneling electron microscope (STM) sorts it out once and for all.

This is the second time Ive seen the term jointing the blade and the second time someone asked what it is and still no body has answered-anyone? what is it?
And stropping is such a quick and effortless action that even if you don't think its doing anything (which it most certainly is IMHO) why would you skip such an easy action ?
If it didn't work I think someone would have discovered it in the last hundred years or so.
just my two cents..........
Griz