So we all use straight razors and since we do we all know our razors are proper sharp right? Well, how do you know this? Are you really sure? What makes you think your instrument is as it should be?
Printable View
So we all use straight razors and since we do we all know our razors are proper sharp right? Well, how do you know this? Are you really sure? What makes you think your instrument is as it should be?
I know for a fact that my razors aren't as sharp as they could be. All that matters to me, though,is that they are sharp enough for me to use them comfotably without any pain or irritation.
I voted "hope" mainly because i knew they were sharp when i got them. I have since stropped them. And i hope my technique is up to it
My razors are sharp. A little birdie told me they were. :)
My razor is sharp, and I have a nice slice in my ear lobe to prove it.
Pretty sure they are, at least the ones I use regularly (except the one I used today, it could a good touch up)
-dan-
Mine are sharp cause I get a damn fine shave.
Perspective, my friend.
Hope we don't start comparing swords, now, too.
I put down that I'm pretty sure it is. I did this because I'm not 100% sure that the sun will rise tomorrow and I have not spent every second of every day with my razors so something could have happened. If you were asking how confident I was in my honing ability I would say that I was at 75% until the Yakima meet, then I spent some time with Glen where he confirmed my edges and we both honed nearly identical razors on similar japanese stones where when I shaved with both they felt almost the same. What I can say is that I won't produce perfect edges everytime I hone a razor, but I know enough to know that the edge isn't perfect and I may need to walk away to hone for another day. I am not saying I'm as good as Glen, but rather I can produce an edge like his, just not as consistently. I would say that now my honing confidence is closer to 95%.
So I guess my method was to compare my edges to a person who is considered a staple in the industry. I also will occasionally hit the classifieds to purchase a razor from Sham, just to get another perspective and to humble myself a little.
To paraphrase Little Willie John's "All Around The World" ..... if my razor ain't sharp, grits ain't groceries, eggs ain't poultry and Mona Lisa was a man. :)
While I am very confident in my ability to put a great edge on a razor, I fully acknowledge that I always have more I can learn and something I can improve. But they're sharp, alright.
My razor is getting dull....needs a touch up
NEWBIE - STILL LEARNING!
Out of 25 razors, I have 14 that were professionally sharpened, including 3 by Lynn. These 14 set the standard for what I consider "sharp."
During my first 50 shaves, I was convinced that all my razors were not sharp. I blamed my uncomfortable shaves on all those "dull" razors. As my technique developed during shaves 51-100, I had the shocking discovery that all of my razors were getting sharper. LOL.
:banghead:
With 150 shaves completed, all but two of my razors can give me an "A" shave, even those that I have honed. However, I have discovered that the 6/8 Thiers-Issard Le Grelot, sharpened by Lynn, sets a high standard and is a A+++ compared to all my other razors. It is the standard by which I measure all my razors.
In the past month, I have learned to feel the subtle difference in the lack of smoothness that occurs when the razor is losing its edge. While 23 of my razors are sharp enough to give a decent shave, I probably have 10 that are at their optimum sharpness. I am still learning how to restore the edge with a Swaty Stone and a SRD paddle strop. If a razor is not as smooth as my TI Le Grelot, I do not consider it at its optimum level of sharpness, but now I blame myself rather than the razor.
One of the interesting things I experienced this morning is how a diminutive NOS 4/8 Strega (Eskilstuna, Sweden) can be just as sharp as a 6/8 TI Le Grelot and give a very satisfying shave. Now, if I can get it to be as smooth as the TI, I will be ecstatic.
My long-range goal is to learn not only how to sharpen my razors but also how to create at least a semblance of the silky smooth edge that Lynn so ably achieves with his honing. I am afraid that another 10,000 honing experiences may not be the answer since I am becoming convinced that honing is as much an art as it is a science.
:)
So, now that this has been open for a time lets discuss this issue further.
The question is how do you know if your razor is sharp? Sounds simple eh? Well, I shave and my face feels smooth so I guess my razor is sharp right? Well not so fast.
Let's say you do a 2 shave pass and your face feels pretty smooth maybe even BBS but when you apply that aftershave or that alum block, hey, I feel burn. So what does that mean? Does that mean you have the burn because your razor wasn't up to snuff or maybe your skills weren't. Afterall something caused that burn and burn and good shave and sharp razor don't go hand and hand.
So there are two aspects to this. The sharp razor is one and the skilled shaver is the other. Which is more important? How do you tell if your shave was the result of an issue in one of the two factors. If your face is BBS and a dose of everclear to your face feels like a fresh mountain breeze does that mean all is OK?
We can go in many directions here so I'm not going to digress into skill sets (you all can do that if you have a mind to) since I started this as a sharp razor thread. I'm going to assume we all are expert shavers and are capable of the perfect shave if the razor is willing and able.
So what qualities do you expect as you rate you shave quality as a function of shave ready condition of your razor?
Here's what I do. I classify my razors as either giving me an excellent shave, an outstanding shave or an exceptional shave (and the razor goes with the shave). So whats the difference? Well, first of all the three categories result in BBS and no hint of irritation of any kind. So what's the difference again?
Well I'm glad you asked.
Imagine your sitting in a chair and someone blindfolds you and says you will feel something on your face and you guess what that is. So an expert barber takes the first razor and for the life of you, you don't know. All you feel is metal going down your face with no hint of it being a razor. Just silky smooth. Maybe it's a squeegee. Thats the exceptional razor. Next razor also silky smooth but you can feel a bare hint of the razor doing it's work. You can tell it's a straight but barely. The last, the excellent one you know it's a straight cause you really feel it working. No discomfort of any kind but you know. Those are the qualities I use to judge how sharp a razor is when shave ready.
Now the only real difference between the excellent and outstanding is some work. It may be hard to do depending on the razor but any razor of quality can be made outstanding in my book if you have the proper equipment and skills. However the exceptional razor to me has a certain quality, a zen,I don't know but to me such razor is born and those qualities are intrinsic to the razor. You can hone till the cows come home and it will never be such a razor. Probably when that razor was made everything perfect happened. Perfect blank, perfect forging, perfect tempering, perfect grinding, perfect honing. It reminds me of watch mvmts where you get a certain mvmt and it's supposed to have a certain accuracy and the one you have runs better than it should and better than one of "higher quality".
Now you may say I'm a honemeister and I can hone to make an exceptional shaver but no matter how sharp it is the qualities transcend that quality of sharpness or at least to me it does. But then again I've never claimed to be a honemeister so maybe I'm all wet.
So what do you all think? How do you judge your razor?
I rate the sharpness by the quality of the shave as well. There are some razors that seem to be magic on my skin; some are just good. It's similar to what you describe.
The real mystery here though, is why you typed out a long post but cut it down by eight characters by twice abbreviating the word "movement"...
That I will lose sleep over.
I go by what others tell me, and compare that to my own thoughts on the razors. Maybe its just my science background, but I have a lot of faith on peer review, especially when I know and trust those peers.
In watch collecting circles "mvmt" is a common abbreviation for "the movement" as in Geology xtl is common for crystal.Quote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
Being new to all this I have to take other people's word for it. I really think this is the hardest thing for newbies to learn. When some of us have a bad shave we blame the razor but honestly we don't know if we've made a mistake in our technique or if we've made a mistake in thinking our razor was sharp. Or maybe both. I think this is where a lot of newcomers get impatient and give up. It's going to take a long time for me to get used to the sharpness issue. This is one area where my stubbornness is a good thing.
Lori
lol @ who voted with me
I'm going to be the outsider when I say I feel I've gotten the blade truly sharp when it effortlessly cuts me. I know, I know.. but let me explain. I have easily irritated follicles, dust/dirt or possibly my own dead skin cells irritate my follicles, it's called keratosis pilarus. I'm not "into" my face enough to wash it several times a day to see if that will help. If I haven't shaved in 2+ days I still have bumpy razor terrain, so it's not the quality of shaves. When I put a new blade into a DE safety razor (I have two good ones) and I shave with it, even if careful, I can get little blood spots. They close fast, might not even feel them, but they are there. If I hone a razor and shave my facial hairs close, that's good. But the most aggressive finger-tip brushing, however many hours later (after hairs shrink from drying) may reveal it wasn't as close as I'm used to. The razor might not have opened the little hilly tops of my bumpy skin. I'm just giving two ideas for gauging closeness, which relates to sharpness (in my book).
The little blood spots from a new DE razor blade tells me it is very sharp, and it generally only last the first or second shave in. After that, it's a smoother shave and far less, if any, spots of blood (and they are sometimes quite small). When I finish a razor on my finisher and strop it well enough so that the harshness of that untamed edge is reduced and I get those telltale little decapitated hill blood spots, then I know I have achieved a level of sharpness which is almost, if not quite as sharp, effectively a level of sharpness to experience the same phenomena as a fresh double edge razor blade will produce.
This may sound weird but from my experiences in this traditional wet shaving, a few effortless little blood spots is actually a good sign I have achieved a very sharp edge. It calms down after 2-3 3-pass shaves, just like a DE blade (might be my stropping as that was the last aspect of TWS that fell into place).
For the record I have a cheapy disposable straight-style half-DE-blade holding shaver so I can directly compare the shaving action of both DE blades and open razors so it's not in my head!
Going to get into one of my guitar analogies...
wait for it..
Hendrix could have played a plank with barbed wire nailed to it and sounded like hendrix, Dave gilmour for all his expensive custom made pedal boards could play mass production versions of the same and noone would know the difference, only him. so..
Whats one mans smooth shave is another mans cheese grater. It depends on the standard you set for yourself, I'm sure a very experienced shaver on here could have a shave that the newbs dream about, not sting on Alum application, and still say "mm, that needs some honing"
What I'm trying to say is probably, in many cases, would it have more to do with the quality of the technique than of the edge? not saying the edge doesn't matter, of course it does.
We had one on one hands on honing lessons from Lynn, and have passed the knowledge on to a few others so I would hope they are sharp. If not the whole WNY crew is shaving with sub par razors :p
the lack of sharpness the crew experiences is directly proportional to how many degrees of honing lesson separation exist between Lynn and the shaverQuote:
Originally Posted by CarrieM
Yeah, ok... whatever you say :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
I have razors honed by Lynn, Sham, Josh Earl, Mastro Livi, Robert Williams, Joe Chandler, Max, Glen, holli4, Butch Harner, TheTofer, and if I forgot anyone it is not on purpose. So say that to say, that I have some to compare my own efforts to.
Beyond that, I go by the bbs + smoothness, I get overall and especially the areas on either side of my windpipe (hollows) and my chin. These areas seem to have the toughest whiskers on my particular face/neck. If I get those bbs effortlessly, and irritation free, I know my honing/stropping/shaving technique is delivering the goods. It goes without saying that I am referring to a high quality vintage, custom or current production razor.
I'm certain it's sharp because I just received it in 'shave ready' condition from SRD.
Mine turn out sharp but it almost seems like luck. I blindly follow Glen's honing videos and hope for a good result. I'll learn more as I go.
After honing , and using straight razors , for a little more than 4 years , I can say my razors are sharp .
I voted "hope" because I hone my own razors, and while I am learning there still are plenty of challenges when I meet a new razor. So it is a bit of a hit or miss when I work it, if the sun is in a particularly beneficial position I may be able to coax something good out of it, if not I'll just have call it "acceptable" and work it again.
In some rare cases I believe I am able to get near the maximum out of a razor, but I'm still working on improving.
I judge my razor's sharpness from the shave. Like JimmyHAD said, if the neck is BBS with no irritation, something went all right. Personally, I can add that I also see a difference in how many passes or how much touchup is needed. What can I say, I'm still learning :)
If the razor provide close and comfortable shave to me without irritation I am sure that's honed properly. Could it be more or less I do not care until it provides comfortable shave.
I voted think due to my 6 month new-b-ism. Despite this though, my straight shaves consistently out shave the fusion shaves of yesteryear.
I've never shaved with an edge honed by one of the big boys, so I'm going to be honest and go with "hope" on this one. I've produced edges that felt to me like a velvet squeegee, but since I can't do it every time, I figure I've still got things to learn.
Mine are sharp, they pass the hanging hair test.
I've used straight razors for about 4-5 years and honed them all by myself so i can't really compare how sharp professionals could get them.
2 passes = BBS = sharp enough. No second thoughts about the sharpness. Any different outcome and then it is time for touch-up.
I have been honing my razors for as long as i have been shaving with straights almost 6 long y...... months lol ,
When it comes to the sharpness of my razors the proof is in the pudding. A smooth sharp edge that gets the job done better than any DE that has ever touched my face.
i have one razor and i have persionaly brought it back from pocket knife shave using a barber hone,( DONT LAUGH, ASK UTOPIA IT CAN BE AND WAS DONE) and i know for a fact my razor will wack the hair off every time i use it.
I use the same general criteria. I have been honing and shaving for long enough now to know when it's time to touch up a razor before it gets ugly and when to simply appreciate the Nirvana of perfection.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Ah Grasshoppers ! If the excellent razor can be improved to become outstanding & the exceptional razor can degrade thru neglect to mere excellence is Nirvana less than perfect ? :roflmao