I often wonder if they get the same close shaves with a straight razor for 50-100-150 years ago compared with today?
Can anyone tell this?
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I often wonder if they get the same close shaves with a straight razor for 50-100-150 years ago compared with today?
Can anyone tell this?
Why not?
What would be different?
I remember my Grandfather shaving with a straight "Taylor's Eyewitness" at the kitchen sink...He sometimes had the odd very small patch of silver whiskers he must have missed....but I don't suppose a small boy watching him and asking stupid questions would have helped his concentration much...
Men in those days always seemed to have a mustache too...was This Edwardian fashion?...or were they avoiding shaving their top lip.
I thought maybe not everyone could get their hands on good razors, preshave oils, cremes and a good hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelshane
Maybe there was a relief when the DE-razors showed up?
Maybe my question was bad formulated?
I meant that today almost everyone can get good equipment at a fair price and very easy.
Eh, I think we've over-complicated this a bit, due to the fact that nowadays it's more of a hobby than a necessity, as you could always shave with a disposable, DE, electric, or not at all. I take a pretty minimalistic approach to shaving, and in the past I've gotten by just fine with just a razor, brush, and soap. That being the case, I'm sure those old timers got by just fine, without all the luxuries that we enjoy today :)
Remember in the old days a straight was the only ticket so most folks were quite competent at it. As has been said, for most of us here this has been turned into a hobby and we obsess over much of it. You don't need much to get a great shave and also remember straight related products and services were more readily available back in those days.
Quality of HonesQuote:
Originally Posted by Michaelshane
No SRP
No quality soaps and creams
No Styptic pencils
No ASBs and Colognes
BBS had yet to be invented
No SRP
No Alum blocks
No SRP
No Ebay
No RAD
No SRP
It is pure speculation. Personally, I think it would have been about the same as with straight razor shavers today or better. Some would be awesome at it, some would get shaves that were good enough to make them happy, and some would have never learned or not taught themselves properly and hated it.
Quality razors would have been easier to come buy, and they'd all be new. From what I have seen, the average cheap vintage razor (pick your favorite no-name brand) is better than the average modern production razor (IMO, of course, but I really think the QC and the steel was better - it had to be because of the competition). Vintage miners got the first pick at the best raw rock - if you had a whole mine fully of Thurry, you'd use the best stuff and dump the rest. Plus labor was cheaper and there weren't safety regulations, hence better rocks and lower costs to the company. There were also professionals that just sharpened razors (cutlery carts or barbers), professionals that only used razors, and professionals that only manufactured/retailed razors. Sure, they didn't have the (pick your favorite synthetic 1k), but that doesn't mean they couldn't set a bevel.
Ace, a lot of the stuff you mention has nothing to do with shave quality. You don't need SRP when your whole family can teach you to use a straight, who says they didn't have quality creams and soaps (some guys go nuts for vintage shave soap), I have never actually seen a stypic pencil in person and it doesn't affect shave quality, nor does cologne, who's to say they didn't have good balms, and etc for the rest of your list.
My relatives, from seeing what they did with DEs (they used DEs when I was a kid) - I'd say they were looking for presentable. My dad's dad used an old DE and a brush, and he shaved fast and flinged the blades out when he was done.
My dad is on the opposite side, he plays around shaving going directly ATG over and over until he's really satisfied.
I doubt most folks shaved every day 150 years ago, or even 100 years ago. My grandfather worked in the courts, so he did. My other grandfather was a farmer - he shaved every few days and he didn't get too worried about it, either.
I like to get a presentable shave off of a straight each day. I would rather be able to feel a micro short bit of hair than work twice as long to get it all off and get razor burn (sensitive skin to the max).
Also, judging by the straights that I've come across with frowns, uneven hone wear, etc that look like they were put away like that many years, I get the sense that a lot of guys were looking for "good enough" instead of perfect.
Just like now, there were probably all kinds of folks.
Awesome discussion.
I am really undecided on this one as I believe there were probably some OCD folks around in the good ol' days, no matter how far you go back. What I find interesting is that I can go to one barber shop and have an awesome experience and be left with a minute amount of whisker in the same trouble areas as when I shave and then go to another shop and have a complete BBS shave. Both are great experiences and both shaves are sticky smooth. Some days when I am shaving, I experience the same thing myself. Some days I only shave with the grain and although I look presentable (always a matter of opinion.....lol), I can obviously feel a little whisker across or against the grain. I think that since we started the first forum, we have seen a lot more compulsiveness regarding the sport and I think that some of the soaps that make big cushion and suds might be better today, but I really don't know. We do have a lot more visibility than in the old days and the capability for information and experience to be shared on a global basis. This is a really good thing, but we also have those who would proclaim products, individuals and even source information as the best or greatest which sometimes offsets people developing and learning from their own experiences.
We do know that there were good razors in the old days as many still exist. But, even in history, there were people who used stones, belts and grinders to sharpen razors so I'm sure the variability there was as big as it is today. I would just love to go back into history and talk to barbers and guys from a couple hundred years ago to see what their shaving experiences were like. Sometimes when you shave with a 100 year old razor or one that is older, you can't help wonder about it's shaving history.
I for one, think that we are making our own history by preserving this art and ensuring that the next generations have the opportunity to enjoy the pleasure of shaving that we enjoy from the straight razors or DE's and all the wetshaving tools.
"Sometimes when you shave with a 100 year old razor or one that is older, you can't help wonder about it's shaving history." Lynn I couldn't agree more. I have a W & B with the VR stamp and every time I use it I wonder about the number of faces it has seen in its journey. Part of the reason I love using straights.
Fairly new to this world of Straight shaving but I tend to think that we're privileged. What I mean is that we are in an age of marketing. While there were things available, and in all reality their quality was likely quite good, we have an over abundance of accessories. (not complaining as they fuel my AD's) We are able to spread information and research much faster and from a much more varied array of sources then at anytime in the past. We also can afford to try more products than our forefathers could. The average man back then would not spend money to own nearly the quantity of items that we consider a good start now. He was likely to only be exposed to what was available locally and would have to settle for that. Of course their were exceptions but they were not the norm.
It's a good time to be alive and it's a great time to preserve, advance, and promote this great past time.
Charlie
I have no doubt that most got at least the shave quality most of us get today.
The quality razors, the hones, the strops and the availability of experienced users where in abundance back then.
Them guys got quality shaves, no doubt in my mind:)
Then again, We won't ever know for sure, will we?
I think it is just like today, it is a simple matter of skill. Many of us are using not only the same razors from 100 yrs ago, but the same stones. The greatest difference is that at one time in recent history the skills were all but lost, thank you Lynn for not giving up and for creating SRP.
As was stated before, this is entirely based on speculation. I would say that in those days if you wanted a shave you did it yourself; if you wanted a great shave to went to a barber....
I would tend to think that they didn't obsess about it in them days like we do now. They probably got away with just 1 pass, as water was limited, and they probably didn't like to waste cream. As it has been mentioned here, while we consider it a hobby, this is the only way they could shave. People these days don't go crazy about shaving with a Mach 3 either.
Wow, nows there a statement I wish I had made. Thank You.Quote:
I for one, think that we are making our own history by preserving this art and ensuring that the next generations have the opportunity to enjoy the pleasure of shaving that we enjoy from the straight razors or DE's and all the wetshaving tools.
I would like to think that back when, there were many fellows who would never go to a barber and risk a"hack job" and obsessed about a keen edge and a DFS! Lessee, do we know anyone like that these days? By looking at some very old razors with nice, even hone patterns, a stropping away from shaving, I am convinced! I am sure they were in the minority then, as now! Some things never change!...get it on...Tom
Really great thread. I've felt the same way as Lynn described while using an old wedge, and Dave too most men just had an acceptable stubble. Hell they all tried but some fellows are just a little more curious about how sharp really sharp is. Remember that up to the late 1800s to the early 1900s the vast majority of families lived on farms. I am thinking that shaving once a week might have been the norm for 8 out of 10 fellows back then. In my opinion the greatest boon to shaving has been the stream of endless hot water. Anyone here ever tried to shave with cold water? I have and it's the pits. Alx
My thoughts exactly. You'd find skill and a sharp blade at the barber and one could ask "second time over" for a BBS. At home, people would probably just get the thing done, as I don't believe there were many (if at all) who considered shaving as a hobby. My grand grandpa was shaving only with water, brush and cheap soap. No aftershave or other commodities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
I love the history associated with shaving with antique and vintage razors. Thinking about who used it before me. What was going on in their lives when they used it.
I've also always wondered about who shaved themselves and who went to a barber?
As for shaving quality, I reckon that some barbers would have really immersed themselves in their craft and pushed the boundaries looking for ways to provide a better shave.
I'd say yes but perhaps not everyone. Some posts have said they didn't have the resources but I think they possibly did. People talked more back then. If someone went about with cuts all over their face a friend or acquaintance would probably have given advice. Then consider all the sellers; no doubt they would have been giving shaving advice to help sell their products.
On another note, I think they were as equally or more committed to excellence then. Look at the handwriting in the declaration of independence (or perhaps the writing of any school boy) and go to a pen forum and ask if they could write as well as us without all our resources.
As many folk have said shaving wasn't a hobby and a lot of people were probably more tolerant of stubble between shaves. These are just my thoughts on the subject but I think due to lots of people living in a small house without distractions like television and radio the skills would have been passed on openly. Most houses in England had a cold dark outhouse so shaving probably would have taken place in the kitchen where hot water could be made available while family members watched.
I would have thought some great tallow soaps would have been available, paired with a new piece of Sheffield steel and some knowledge a great shave would have been fairly common. The little mesters of Sheffield would have been setting bevels all day everyday, they probably could have done it with their eyes closed providing a great razor that only needed regular maintenance to keep in fine form. Natural stones were available and again as people have already mentioned people went round door to door sharpening things for a living. I've even heard of Polypore fungus from Birch trees being used to strop razors in Victorian times, to this day some still call it stropping fungus.
Like today it was probably down to individuals how well or often they shaved but I'm sure they were more than capable if that's what they desired. Great thread, it's something I often think about when using or cleaning up old razors! If only they could tell you a bit about their history...
My mother once told me that her uncle who died 30+ years ago was the best shaven man she had ever known. He is the only man I know who continued to shave with a straight where others switched to DE's. He was born in the late 1800's. I inherited his Heljestrands and loomstrop. He only had 2 razors, one loomstrop and an old barber who did the honing for him.
O.P.: does that answer your question?
My grandfather was a farmer, and my mother remembers a strop hanging in his bedroom, on the wall next to the mirror and dry sink bowl sitting on the bureau. My mother remembers him never looking scraggly, so he probably shaved daily or at least every other day.
I often just make a 1 pass shave on the weekends, and it only takes 5-7 minutes including prep and equipment cleaning/drying (I shave with cold water). I find that shaving daily cuts down on acne quite a bit when I'm working hard enough to sweat many hours of the day, and also makes my shirts last twice as long (since the neck stubble causes the collars to pill up quickly if I don't shave) - so I'm guessing that a lot of farmers shaved daily if they had the time.
I also think a person from the 1800's had skills that most people don't have any more - that would have helped with their shaving ability automatically. For instance, I do a lot of woodworking with hand tools, and find that it takes most people several years to develop the skill and "feel" necessary to use planes and scrapers (thin flexible piece of steel with a burred edge that is rolled over into micro-sized hook) to smooth wood with swirly or splintery grain. However, the understanding of when to raise or lower the angle of the blade (and it's effect on swirly or stronger grain), couple with the approach path - are all the SAME techniques I use when shaving. Razor sharpening is unique due to the very thin fin - but there is still a LOT of things I learned about sharpening a plane, and a scraper that help me learn to sharpen a razor.
And some of the "inexpensive" Arkansas stones that my father purchased in the 1920-30's are finer grit than my 16K Naniwa, so I wouldn't assume that people from the 1800's didn't have the ability to hone their razor themselves.
once in awhile I wonder...hmm..maybe I should leave my straight razors..my next immediate thought "you have the ability to shave with some history involved..skill and all...not just throw it away in the bin like todays plastic disposable razors..Great comment Lynn!
SmallTank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
I'm really kind of on the fence about this. I know, for example that hygiene standards 100 years or so ago were markedly looser than they are today. That said, I can't imagine standards for shaving were very stringent at all back in those days, 1 or 2 shaves a week was probably it for most common fellas. Sure there were probably those who either had time or necessity to shave more frequently but I'm sure that in general if you didn't shave that often or didn't shave at all, no one really cared too much.
By contrast I have a story that my Mother often told me about her grandfather. One Christmas, she was quite keen to buy him one of those "new fangled" Gillette safety razors. In her head she thought it would save him a lot of time and trouble honing and stropping. So she set about dropping hints to see what he thought of safety razors. His response was direct and to the point (was there any other kind of response from a German immigrant farmer?) "I don't think much of those safety razors, it's the end of men being men when they're not even expected to keep their razors sharp." So from this perspective, perhaps even despite some generally loose hygiene rules there were men who saw the proper maintenance and employment of a straight razor a right of passage, one of the things that made a man...well a man. At least that's how my great-grandfather Charlie Richter seems to have felt about it.
What may be an accurate picture of the way men in the 1800 and early 1900's related to shaving would be the documented history of what the US and British military required. I'm sure that these,if any, records of the hygiene practices of time would still exist. Based on these requirements I think we could estimate what the rest of the population did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG10
That was some really interesting answers. Thanks for sharing. :)
Just bought a vintage custom Erik Anton Berg off ebay with the name Axel Augustson on it and that has launched me on a quest to find out who this man was and what he did. A bit of research finds he immigrated from sweden with the razor being a farewell gift from his family at age 22 on a boat to new york. moved to salt lake where he mingled mostly with other swedes and eventually on to san francisco where he worked in the mining industry as a drill foreman, writing short plays on the side. Puts the razor in the late 1800s somewhere right in the middle of the mass immigration and building of this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by whavens
And through all 'our' efforts the tradition SHALL live on.
Here here!
proliferation of information means that your best efforts can be proven still not quite as good as they can/should be. that gives you a higher mark to strike for, forcing you to up your game. this holds true for nearly all industries/pursuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelshane
don't think of it as a bad thing. the joy in craft is improvement and success...which is easy to say as a professional nerd
So what did they do for fun back then? Oh oh, I asked Ace that question, here comes the wise cracks!! LOOKOUT! :roflmao[Quote:
Originally Posted by ace
When I was younger I too watched my grandpa (1883-1983) shave with a straight. He didn't have running water but got water from the reservoir in the coal stove and shaved at a mirror in the kitchen. He usually only shaved on Saturday or Sunday morning and he seemed to get a pretty good shave from an inexpensive razor, hone, strop and lather. He likely knew what he was doing after 50 years or so of shaving.
Well im positive that they got a good shave for sure, we know for a fact that they could get a good quality razor.
And i know personally that they knew how to sharpen tools,and if they didnt they would have their wife baked a pie,
and go visit the guy down the road that knew how to hone a razor for dessert and while im here could you touch up my rasor!!
want another piece of pie perhaps!!!!!!!!!
I think back in the day the most common thing to do was to go to a barber for a shave. I've read something to the effect that hardly anybody shaved themselves - if you were rich you had a valet, and if you were poor you went to the penny barber every other day or so. It became a social ritual to get a barber shave, like going to the bar after work except in the morning. And I'm sure barbers back in the day were competant as hell at giving close shaves.