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Hi all,
I recently bought a 1940's Gillette DE and have been shaving with my new Dovo for about a month now. The little DE shaves smooth as silk, requires zero pressure and just glides over my face perfectly, very sharp and goes through my beard like butter....works awesome! My question is this: Is my Dovo supposed to feel like that because it's not even close. If it is, then I have to figure out what's going on...
-= Beer
Your straight should feel better than the DE. However there is a much larger learning curve to the straight than a DE. After 100 or so shaves with the straight it should be about the same depending on how fast you learn and build muscle memory.
A DE razor does the work for you. There's a bar there to keep your you skin flat and the razor at optimal angle. With a straight, it's all on you.
I can't get as good a straight shave as a DE shave, either. I think it's because I simply can't get a straight quite as sharp as a DE.
I'm kinda thinking that it's a sharpness issue too... I wish I had someone nearby to bounce things off of. Anyone near Tacoma?
A DE requires more skill than is required by a cartridge razor. A straight razor requires much more skill than a DE. That skill does come, but it does take time. The learning curve with a straight razor takes at least 30 shaves and maybe many more. There is much to learn and to know. That proficiency does come with time, but it doesn't come quickly. Straight shaving is a skill that has to be learned, but when the time is put in and it is learned, it is very rewarding.
Some would say, "If you're happy with the DE, shave with the DE." Others would say, "Keep working with the straight. You will get better."
I am with the second chorus. A proper straight shave is closer and will last longer than a DE shave. Plus, there is more satisfaction and pleasure.
I shave with all kinds of set ups. Rolls, straights, DEs, SEs, Valets, a bunch of "zebras." I enjoy all of them. The real difference, for me, lies in (1) effort, and (2) novelty. BUT, if I had to use only one system for the rest of my life, I'd choose straights. DFS in 5 minutes, BBS shave in 20, anything in between. History, the pleasures of honing, etc,. are all gravy.
I do love all that comes with the straight razor and can definitely see little glimpses of what it may be like for me when it all comes together. I'm looking forward to that. I'll keep on it. It's super cool, and I enjoy that it's not easy. There's so much to know and I'm enjoying the journey. This forum is great, you're all so patient with us newbs. I'm planning to go get a pro straight razor shave when I get the time. Then I'll have a good idea how it's supposed to feel. There's one or two barber shops around here that still do it.
Some factors to consider.
Was the razor honed before use ? If not a smooth shave may be more good luck than good management.
Are you confident of your lathermaking.
Is there a chance your stropping is degrading the edge ?
Are you using a low enough shaving angle for comfort ?
LOL Oni, I'm a mess in all those areas I think... I bought a razor, couldn't hone it for crap, sent a pic to Lynn, he said it probably wouldn't hone well. Bought a shave ready DOVO, dropped it shortly thereafter and put two tiny, tiny chips in it, had to use my hours of honing experience to try to fix it. The chips are gone and it pops hair off my arm, so I guess it's ok. Lathermaking, no idea, seems whipped creamish like you guys mention. As far as the angle thing, I'm trying everything... maybe I should send the DOVO back for a hone, I get one freebee with the purchase? As far as stropping, I think I'm just coming around to getting that right. I've got that first razor shaving, not great, but it's shaving. Some 8k and a pile of stropping seems to have helped it alot.
I tried again today. Cheeks went well, lip and chin pulling, neck...grabbing, pulling...deadly. LOL I'll try again when I grow something. My cheeks feel awesome.
Too much information :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by beerosaur
But seriously,you are going thru the experimentation stage as well as most. Grabbing & pulling is never good but at least a fresh honing can easily eliminate the razor fault. The rest you have to work on & you'll no doubt get there like we all did.
I have to say, even though my straights aren't quite as sharp as my DEs, you're right: the straight still shaves closer and lasts longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
1. With my DEs, I can get BBS going ATG. It will last until night, and that's when the hair starts resurfacing.
2. With my straight, I can get BBS going ATG as well. It will last until the next morning, and I will barely have any stubble resurfacing. But due to my (in)ability to sharpen well, the straight shave isn't quite as comfortable.
It does take a lot of practice. It's not something you're going to get overnight. I've been using a straight on and off for about 8 months now, and I'm just now starting to understand how to hone properly. I'm probably a special case, though, since I've been doing it on and off, and I have very unsteady hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by beerosaur
Waiting for beard to grow to give it another go. I won't fill you in as to the condition of my cheeks this time..LOLOLOL... Looked at my first practice razor today under magnification, has a few nicks in it and a spot of wire edge. I think I'm going to get rid of the edge all together and try again now that I know a tiny bit more...should be fun!
DE and straight razors are totally different beasts. I've been using DE razors for about three years and straights for about 7 months now. I can get the same results from both with more work from the straight, but it's getting easier with each straight razor shave. I'm finally to a point where, generally, my straight razor shaves are better than DE, but I still use DE razors if I'm pressed for time or just because I feel like it.
Straight razors give me smooth and pleasant shaves, without blood spreading for over a year now.
On the contrary, the DEs are more aggressive to my skin, the shave is never as close as with a straight, and there is always a drop of blood. I have used plenty of different DE blades, but nothing comes even close to a straight shaving.
The only reason to use a DE instead of a straight is that I am tired or in a hurry.
Kind of the same for me. I don't get any nicks or cuts with straight razors. However, the shave is more comfortable with DEs for me. However #2, I still happen to get a closer shave with my straight compared to my DE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slur
I had a small collection of DE razors, and I thought they were the bee's knees. (The Gillette English Rocket FT and Gem G-Bar were my favorites.) Fantastic BBS ATG shaves! Then I started using straight razors. That was three years ago. Now I cut myself all to hell trying to use a safety razor, so I sold them all. There is nothing safe about a safety razor!
Me
I am still learning SR's and I have yet to get BBS with it, whereas with my DE (Merkur Progress) I can get BBS shaves consistently, keeping at it with the SR though in hopes of getting that great shave :)
Well, I finally got around to shaving. It was definately an improvement. Cheeks went well as usual, this time chin didn't go so bad. Mustache area was a little grabby, and left lots of retouch spots. Neck still was kinda irritating, grabby and generally no fun. So I guess that's improvement. The razor seemed to be doing its thing better. I think what I'm starting to learn is I need a super laser beam sharp edge... not sure though, just a hunch. I hardly used the DE at all for touch ups. Mostly really close to the lips...
Back at it in a couple of days!
-= Beer
Oooh, I tried again today with just one days growth... much better. No pulling at all. Maybe that's part of the trick for me? My beard on my neck ATG goes from ear to chin... how the heck to you get the razor in there and have more touch than just the tip??
I use straights and a DE. I use the DE during weekdays because it's faster to use. I use the straights on weekends because I'm not rushed on Saturday or Sunday mornings. Here's how I compare them:
DEs require less skill to use than straights and, for me, they often provide a more uniform shave. Straights provide a closer, more lasting shave (less noticeable stubble the next morning). I also think my face looks a little bit better after using a straight, perhaps due to more aggressive exfoliation.
By the way, disposable (tossable) razors require very little skill to use, but often cause irritation when dull--and they dull quickly. They do have their place, though. I still keep them around for quick, post-shave touch-ups or for when I travel.
I was using a DE for a couple of years before I switched over to using a Straight. I had gotten very good with the DE and switching to the straight was a huge step back for me.
However thanks to my stubborn streak (and this board) I stuck with it and got better with the Straight. Eventually they started to parallel and I was mostly happy with the shaves I was getting with the straight.
About 2 weeks ago I was having an issue with one spot on my neck (I have a spot that grows in a spiral) and decided to attack it with the DE because I was positive that the DE could get it BBS. Shaving that day with the DE is when I realized that I get a better shave with the straight now. The DE doesn't even come close.
Still struggling with that spiral but at least now I know I am better with the straight than with the DE. The straight just snuck up on me. Definitely was not an overnight change.
That's a good one Mzarra. Being away from it left you with the fond memories, but in reality it was a different story huh? I'll keep trying. And can anyone tell me the best way to shave ATG from under my ear to under my chin? I can't seem to get any kind of angle there that works.
-= Beer
Yeah, the memory didn't match the reality :)
As for ear to chin, there is an advanced pass called the "Guillotine" that I use for that direction. It takes some practice to get right. Shaving passes - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Sounds frightful! I'm off to read!
What the DE does with coatings, the Straight Razor shaver does with a strop...
Honing only gets you part of the way there, "Stropping really is King" when it comes to how that edge feels on the face..
If you are not Burnishing in the edge with your stropping then you are never going to get that best edge that many of us brag about...
The Straight Razor also has the advantage of allowing more "Tweaking" then all other forms of shaving. From the hone, to the strop, to the grind, to the angle, the smile, and even the stroke, you have ultimate decision on all that...
The problem is, it takes time, you have to invest that time to tweak your own shave to get that "Ultimate Comfort and Closeness"
I have experienced the same thing with the same razors you have mentioned. I feel that ''bharners'' reply pretty much sums it up. With more practice, they'll get more and more comparable. Good luck!
After nearly a year of straight razor shaving, I am nearly as proficient with a straight as with a DE. However, I love using both straights and DEs, so my usual daily shave consists of two passes with a straight (WTG & XTG) and one pass with a DE (ATG).
Happy Shaving.
GREAT responses to this question. The answer is not that the SR is superior. I get a great shave with my DE. Very fast, and my wife loves the result. It is my daily, fast shave. However, when I really want to enjoy the nostalgia and the satisfaction of a great shave accomplished by my own technique then nothing matches the SR. I can get a fast, good shave with my Braun electric (rarely used anymore). I can get an expensive, great shave with Gillette products. My Merkur DE is almost as fast, less expensive and superior to both respectively. But alas, the SR in experienced hands is almost always slower, possibly less expensive over ten years or more, but nothing satisfies the accomplishment nor matches the result of the SR for your best luxury shave. Sadly, most will never stick with it long enough to enjoy that satisfaction. Don't give up - the best is yet to come.
I thought I'd post a quick update... so it's been 2 months since I posted about a pulling brutal shave. Today I think I had my first real SR shave! No missed spots, mostly comfortable (nicked my @#$%@# ear! LOL) and only took 25 minutes! I'm getting closer! There is sooo much to it. Today I was thinking about all the details as I shaved...the lather, the angle, the stroke, the strop, the sharpness... hell of a juggling act. No wonder it takes a while. I'll keep working it.
I had a question too...I dunno if this is the right place for it but here goes. I have a DOVO Best Quality I recently purchased. I have to guide the blade in when I close it or it hits the side and off to the hone I go. I though this was normal because it's just plastic after all... but then I read something that made me think it's not normal. What's the deal with this? Is it fixable?
-= Beer
Techically it could be considered a defect, though it's really not that uncommon for a blade to seat evenly. You can do more harm than good trying to remedy the situation, especially if you don't know what you're doing. Unless you feel like spending the money and sending your razor out to be repaired, as long as the blade is snug and you guide the blade back into the scales your razor will be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by beerosaur
+1 on the reply from Ryan82Quote:
Originally Posted by beerosaur
In any handful of razors you will find some that
do not close exactly correct. I find that I do well
to always guide my razors home.
Next time you send it out for honing ask the honemaster
to look at it. In some cases a couple light taps on the pivot pin
will help... in some cases it might make it worse.
The good news is that these scales are inexpensive
mostly easy to come by and can can be replaced with
little worry compared to +$100 fancy scales.
Okay, so I'll just live with it. It's not that big a deal, though I'd like it to be more precise. Thanks guys!
Can't wait to shave again...hahahaha
-= Beer
I'm at about the same place you were at when you first started this thread beer.... happy to see it is working out much better for you now - it gives me hope for myself :)
Did you end up sending your new dovo in to be honed after you got it? (sorry if you answered the question in the thread, I may have missed it)