How rich should a lather be?

I'm giving my skin a bit of a rest for a few days as the neck area had become a bit irritated from learning to use a straight razor, so instead iv decided to practice building a lather as i'v recently bought a badger hair brush and some tabac shave soap (i used to use a basic omega boar hair brush and fauldings shave cream out of the tube). I figured the lather would help remove any dirt from the skin and help it heal as well.

I first had a hot shower as if i was going to actually have a shave, then filled the basin with medium hot water and soaked the brush until it was thoroughly wet. I'm never too sure about how much water to keep in the brush to load up on soap but i usually lift the brush out of the water and let it drain then give a little shake. Then i give the brush about 8 swirls in the ceramic bowl of tabac and start lathering up on my face with a circular motion. I do this for a few minutes until i have created quite a large amount of lather which seems to be quite firm and cushioning with more than enough for at least three passes. Then i paint the foam around my face so it is even over all areas. Then i would normally commence the shave.

The reason i ask the question of how rich a lather needs to be is because i have been watching videos on youtube about how to use a straight razor and the lather that they apply seems to be much thinner than the one i am creating and it appears so be "thicker" possibly more like a cream and i am wondering if my lather should look more like this?

I think it's personal preference.

A lot of guys here refer to their "perfect" lather as having the consistency of cool whip or whipped cream

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Dd7Aj9vwrtc

This video on YouTube by mantic59 should help you out a lot.

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Originally Posted by Nuntits

A lot of guys here refer to their "perfect" lather as having the consistency of cool whip or whipped cream

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Dd7Aj9vwrtc

This video on YouTube by mantic59 should help you out a lot.

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I'm in that group as well, I prefer it to have peaks when I pull it out of my shaving mug. I've tied it a little more runny like some people do and didn't like my bathroom looking like I lathered with C4.

Since you are having irritation, if you are face lathering it may be because you are agitating the skin by working in your lather too much trying to build it on your face. I have gotten a rather severe reaction on my face when I worked my shave soap( it was Williams) into my face too much, it left me with what looked like a chemical burn

I've found out that less water always makes for thicker lather. The only brand that never seemed to get thick enough for me was col conks. Mama bears does really well as so does speick.

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Originally Posted by Neolithium

I'm in that group as well, I prefer it to have peaks when I pull it out of my shaving mug. I've tied it a little more runny like some people do and didn't like my bathroom looking like I lathered with C4.

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Yeah I'm with you, once my lather starts to stick really good and begins to shine, that's the way I like it.

I agree that its a personal thing. Lather consistency is really hard to describe or quatify, but I prefer a thicker lather, just shy of the whipped cream consistency mentioned above.

Its possible to have both a thick lather and one that still has enough water in it to keep your face wet, but for me the more important thing is the cushioning and lubrication the soap provides. At the two extremes, water is too watery and whipped cream lather is too thick.

I would suggest trying different mixtures and seeing how your skin reacts. Start off with one side of your face with a thin lather and do the other side with a thicker lather. That way you've eliminated the razor variable and will see what feels better.

This is one of the fun parts of wet shaving, you can experiment with stuff like that.

Thanks for the replies and advice!

Nuntits that's a good suggestion but i'm quite sure the irritation is due to my lack of experience with a straight razor and the awkward way in which the hair on my neck grows. When i use a DE i have always lathered up on my face in the same way i described and it has worked fine with no irritation.

The Lather i'v got is similar to what you are describing as it holds its shape and is not runny so it seems to be okay i just thought it might not be as viscous as it should be, but the replies are reassuring me that it is okay!

My face feels great and only a few hours after this lather test, the irritation on my neck is looking better, its soothing! There are certainly a lot of blokes out there missing out on knowing what it feels like to have a proper face preparation and shave, i cant imagine using a cartridge razor and canned foam ever again. I'm having a hard time convincing my dad to switch to start using a proper soap or foam and throw away his Bic disposables.

How does the lather feel on your face toward the end of a pass? Is it drying out? When I was first learning to shave with a straight razor, I was not using enough water. Rather than face lather, try this: load your brush after it's had a good soak & a shake like you're doing now. Then take a second bowl (warmed in the sink while soaking your brush) and start building your lather in the bowl. Periodically, dribble some more hot water from the tap into your brush and continue building lather in the bowl. Experiment to see how much additional water gives you a good feel on your face while shaving. I was surprised at how much additional water it takes to give me the lather I want.

What is important is the result you receive -- not what you see others doing on Youtube. Their beard and skin is not your beard and skin.

One of the members posted this video in the videos section of the forum (it was his 30th anniversary shave -- 30 years shaving with a straight!) I can't find it now, but I had it bookmarked on Youtube.

He's using a scuttle to keep his lather warm, and dipping his brush into the fill spout, instead of dribbling water from the tap onto his brush, but it's basically the technique I describe above. Remember, what is important is the result you get on your face, not what you see someone else doing in a video.

If you try lathering in a bowl, experiment to get a feel for how much water is "enough" and how much is "too much" water. Good luck!
Namaste,
Morty -_-

I start out with really rich lather for the first two passes (I do four). The last two passes I make sure that the lather is thinner because I want that edge to be able to get down past the lather.



Take Care,
Richard

Thanks Morty, The video was very informative and now that you mention it i do find that my lather dries out a bit towards the end of the 2nd pass. This could be because i lather up on my face and have way too much foam on my face for the first pass and there probably isn't enough left on the brush to keep it hydrated so it dries quickly?

I shall try using a bowl next time, does it matter what bowl i use? i noticed the bloke in the video uses that huge thing and it seems to have some levels in the bottom of it to help with the lather? i had tried using a bowl once before and the result wasn't the best. the bowl was stainless steel and may have been too slippery on the inside for the bristles to be able to work the soap into a lather?

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Originally Posted by Nuntits

A lot of guys here refer to their "perfect" lather as having the consistency of cool whip or whipped cream

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This video might also help understand the Cool Whip fascination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lich59xsjik

Your lather can never be to rich or your blade to sharp. .... or was it rich and thin?? Can't remember.(:-)

you have some great advice here. If you follow it, you will benefit greatly from it. Use the forum to your benefit and ask questions as you need to :)

I haven't noticed any difference in razorburn based on the thickness of the lather (and just about anything will give me razorburn. I can't use electrics, i can't shave with cartridge razors with anything but the lightest of light pressures).

I generally face lather for about 25 seconds with cella or MWF (both of those give me lather in spades). I think moisture is important for lubrication, for me the lather needs to be wet enough that I notice my face is moist without having to add extra water to my face all the time, but not wet enough that it flies all over the place off the brush. Those are my two endpoints.

I don't find a better shave from lather that's whipped up over a period 3 times as long, but I do find a worse one for me if I get fascinated with the thickness of the lather and then allow it to get too dry, so that it dries quickly on the face.

I am a 2 pass daily shaver, with both passes taking less than 4 minutes including getting lather on my face (and getting the brush soaped). You'll get faster if you allow yourself to, and getting faster means having moisture left on your face and moist lather without having to play with it too much.

I don't do the hobby 20 minute shave process that some folks do, because I shave in the morning and I have to catch public trans. I don't even wash my brush (which helps make lather easy the next day), and find that not washing it keeps crap from growing in it. When I rinsed the brush every day, I had to rotate brushes because they would start to stink if they were wet without soap too many days. Leaving the soap in them prevents the growing stink.

I keep the soap and brush wet while loading the brush, even add a little water. When just loaded the brush has a thin soupy mixture filling the brush. Then I lather on wet face until thick, shiny lather with stiff peaks forms. Face gets a nice "coated" feeling and the lather is slick as can be. Plenty of lather for passes and touch ups.

Michael

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Originally Posted by issimonete

there probably isn't enough left on the brush to keep it hydrated so it dries quickly?

I shall try using a bowl next time, does it matter what bowl i use?

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It probably does not matter what kind of bowl you use. I know Em's Place sells brass, aluminum and stainless steel bowls specifically for building lather. I might suggest loading more soap into your brush before moving to a bowl. You could also try a ceramic bowl or a glass bowl to see if that gets you different results. Whichever kind of bowl you use, set it in your sink with hot water at the same time you place your brush there to soak so it will be warm when you start building lather.

Concerning the lather drying on your face when face lathering. There's no rule against loading a bit more soap onto your brush and dribbling a little hot water into the brush between shaving passes. I build my lather in a scuttle like Chimensch does in his video. And if I get the sense that my second or third pass lather isn't as "wet" as I need it to be, I just trickle some hot water from the tap into the end of the brush and then "face lather" as you do, rather than try to correct what's in my scuttle.

The bowl that Chimensch is using is a specialty bowl made for shaving that is called a scuttle. It has a double layer so that hot water surrounds the inner bowl, keeping your lather warm throughout the entire shave. The big round "spout" you see him dip his brush into is the opening to add hot water to the inner "reservoir" that keeps the lather in the bowl warm. There are different designs for scuttles and the one he owns has a fill port large enough to dip brushes into.

I bought my scuttle from Dirty Bird Pottery. The one I have is the "1.5" that goes for $54.00. I see Julie added a 15 min video to her Web site, showing her making a shaving scuttle in her pottery shop.

My scuttle has a spiral groove in the bowl, apparently to assist in building lather. One member here asked Julie if she would make a scuttle for him with web shaped grooves instead. He posted about it and I guess a number of other members liked it, so they asked Julie to make scuttles with webbed grooves for them, too. That's why she offers the choice on her Web site.

Do the grooves really make a difference? Probably not. Bowls sold specifically for building lather generally do not have grooves and many shavers happily use them each time they shave.

Shaving scuttles, though, are not mass produced on a factory assembly line. They are works of art, individually crafted by an artist for an end user. And just like any "functional" work of art you might purchase, you will want it for what it does for you emotionally and spiritually -- as well as what it does for you functionally.

More than you wanted to know about how rich your lather should be, eh? ;-)

Namaste,
Morty -_-

I have been using a straight for one year. The first months I was experimenting with different ways to get a perfect lather using a bowl. Now I don't bother any more. I whirl the brush in soap for a few seconds, or mash a little cream into my whiskers with my fingers, then a quick face lathering. Works plenty for me, I guess that is a matter of personal taste.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=60.344709,5.273251

Personally I've found that many of the soaps and creams I have, performs best for me when lathered fairly wet, I usually add a good bit of water and never really go for the super thick Santa look.
I also tend to use a fair bit of product, 8 swirls on a puck is waaaay too little for me. :) Minimum 3 seconds is what I do, some soaps up to a minute.
Works for me.

Agree with you on the wetter lather. Find that if it's 'Santa' like it drys faster and limits the razors glide and I have a rougher shave.

Keep experimenting until you find what you like, every soap and shaver is different. Have fun!

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Originally Posted by Nuntits

Yeah I'm with you, once my lather starts to stick really good and begins to shine, that's the way I like it.

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Wow, someone else notices that shine! Cool. Yeah, I think mine is done at that point too. It starts to look like mother of pearl.

Bread dough, when you're kneading it, also developes that shine. I think it's some optical effect caused by bubble size, but don't have any physics to back it up. It's just the only thing I can think of that dough and lather would have in common.

I lather and shave in an environment of about 15% relative humidity, so have to run my lather fairly wet. Good advice I received here was to add about 5 drops of glycerin to my shaving cream; that helps it stay moister a little longer. Search the forum for "uberlather" or "glycerin" for more info on that front.

For your neck irritation, consider doing a cold-water shave. That's much gentler on the skin. Also, make sure you're getting good stretches of your neck skin. That's a little tricky, but another hint I read here was to use your nonshaving hand to put a chokehold along your collar line, pull down a little, and lift your chin a little. That puts a pretty good stretch over the whole realm.

Good luck, have fun, and best wishes to you.

As thick or as thin as you like.

For me it is too thick if it does not rinse off under
hot water.

A thin lather will dry then not rinse well. A
goober thick lather will not rinse well.

I personally adjust the lather adding soap or
adding water as I go -- I tend to be a face lathering
guy so that just works for me.

A good lather seems to like a lot of water
dribble by dribble when well worked in a
lathering bowl or on the face. So I think
thick and wet works best.

Lathering does take practice. About half
of the way through a puck of Williams ($1.50)
and you will have learned something. Practicing
never touching the face or a razor can be time
well spent.

I like to do things exactly the same each time I prepare, to remove as many variables as possible. I always soak the brush in the bowl (filled with water) slightly less than just about floating in the sink of hot water as I shower. I then always, empty the bowl and sink, wring the brush with my hand, and then re-fill sink and bowl with hot water; re-soaking the brush. I then empty the bowl, flick the water from the brush five times, stand brush on sink; add cream from tube (I normally use cream in a tube, maybe once a week soap) and start to make the lather. Normally I need to add water (dribbles from my hand; a few dribbles at a time) several times. I like the lather to be thick; but I can shave with a really thin lather, too. I think the richer or thicker a lather gets, the more likely it'll dry; and also, it can actually be a bother having too much cream; it can obstruct your view.

I like a lot of cushion and good glide, but the scent is also important for me. Sometimes, the scent will outweigh the actual performance....

I'd rather have it a little thicker than runny, but too thick is drier & it tends to flake off during the shave. There's a happy medium there somewhere, experimentation is the key.

Lots of great advice being put forward here, thanks to all that have had some input. I think i'v found a good consistency with my lathers which is what some have described as nearing whipped cream, like a thick foam that holds its shape, i have added a bit more water to my normal mix and found that this solves the problem of the lather drying out too quickly.

Morty, thanks for the information on the scuttle,maybe sometime down the track i might try one out, it is quite an interesting piece of art.

I still find that lathering on my face provides a better result at the moment but i have tried using a bowl a few more times and just cant seem to get the consistency that i want. Anyone else having the same problem or do i just need to stick at it?

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Originally Posted by issimonete

Lots of great advice being put forward here, thanks to all that have had some input. I think i'v found a good consistency with my lathers which is what some have described as nearing whipped cream, like a thick foam that holds its shape, i have added a bit more water to my normal mix and found that this solves the problem of the lather drying out too quickly.

Morty, thanks for the information on the scuttle,maybe sometime down the track i might try one out, it is quite an interesting piece of art.

I still find that lathering on my face provides a better result at the moment but i have tried using a bowl a few more times and just cant seem to get the consistency that i want. Anyone else having the same problem or do i just need to stick at it?

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You need to stick at it. A while ago I decided to teach myself to cook omelettes really, really well. I figured they are adaptable, I can always keep chickens where I live, and they're good for you. I made omelette after omelette and perfected the method. But, once in a while, I still make a bad omelette.

Also, I understand life is like a box of chocolates...

What is the foam circle in the video? Does it do anything besides give you a way to wipe off the foam/wiskers?

J

For me, I like it thick for my first pass, and progressively thinner for the 2nd and third. If it's drying out, don't be afraid to reapply.

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Originally Posted by mahaney

What is the foam circle in the video? Does it do anything besides give you a way to wipe off the foam/wiskers?

J

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I think it's just for wiping. I use a folded wash cloth placed on the bench edge. I like to wipe rather than wash the blade; it minimises water on the razor (I find I can actually keep it quite dry; apart from the actual blade of course; and cream is drier than water and easier to wipe off) and allows you to actually see the hairs (and/or blood) in the lather, which has a fulfilling (and/or depressing) effect.

I actually feel, while this guy's shaving ability is astonishing, that he has, by my standards, rather a thin lather.

The point above about the thinner (wetter?) lather for the second and third passes is a good one; I find a thinner lather for the second pass reduces the likelihood of the razor digging in when going ATG; or maybe it's just that I need to make the mix wetter as the lather has dried a little...Either way, I dip the tip of the brush in the water and re-mix...

This is starting to sound like one of those things that's really easy to do (once you 'get' it) but hard to explain; like tying shoelaces...And choosing a chocolate from the box of chocolates...

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Originally Posted by mahaney

What is the foam circle in the video?

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It's just a kitchen sponge he uses to wipe his blade off between strokes.

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I actually feel, while this guy's shaving ability is astonishing, that he has, by my standards, rather a thin lather.

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Chimensch posted that video to SRP a couple of years ago to mark his 30th anniversary shaving with a straight razor. Thin lather or not, he obviously knows what he is doing. ;-)
:beer1:

Okay just some things i have learnt from the last couple of shaves with better lather thanks to some of the advice received here.

I got a bigger deeper bowl than the small one i was using and loaded a bit more soap onto my brush. Then built a very nice lather with only the water i had left in the brush after a light shake, i found this was more than enough water to make a great lather with enough being produced for at least 3 passes probably 4.

I also warmed the bowl in hot water before building the lather and then whilst shaving, i kept the bowl afloat in the basin filled with warm water, making sure no extra water get in the bowl. I found that this kept the lather warm and stopped it from "deflating".

Hope this helps some other newbies out there too

My lather has to be so rich that it has friends that own nascar teams.

Hahah, down my way it would be AFL

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Originally Posted by issimonete

Okay just some things i have learnt
......
I got a bigger deeper bowl
......
I found that this kept the lather warm and stopped it from "deflating".

Hope this helps some other newbies out there too

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Good point hidden in this.

Yes, The bigger deluxe brushes like a larger lathering bowl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by issimonete

The reason i ask the question of how rich a lather needs to be is because i have been watching videos on youtube about how to use a straight razor and the lather that they apply seems to be much thinner than the one i am creating and it appears so be "thicker" possibly more like a cream and i am wondering if my lather should look more like this?

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The one I am creating appears much thicker as well. However, I've been playing with it and watched carefully for the results. Now I just make my lather the way it is comfortable to me and leaves my face without irritation.

it's personal,i like it thick but creamy.but another likes it wetter or dryer.
Experiment whit your lather.