My first straight shave

Gentlemen:

I finally got to use my new razor and paddle strop from Tony Miller :y

Overall, it went smoothly. Here are my issues:

1. I understand while stropping, the spine of the blade should rest on the stop. When I did that, the blade didn't touch the strop, I had to lift the spine a bit and then got a nice sound. I stopped because I didn't want to damage the blade.

2. Sides of face went great! Even used both hands.

3. Had great difficulty getting the upper lip and chin area. I got 2 small cuts and pulled a couple of hairs. Razor kept getting caught in the beard. I assume it's either my angle or I messed up the blade stropping.

Questions:

1. How do you get that lip area (unfortunately, Lynn's DVD didn't help me too much on the lip. I could get the 1st pass with the grain but against it was a little tough and I had to finish with my Fusion

2. Same question only on the chin area. I seemed to get decent results holding it at a 90 degree angle but I don't think that should be proper.

Results of first shave:

Near BBS on sides and neck. Troubled on the lip and chin but overall a great experience and I will definitely be back for more :tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

Gentlemen:

I finally got to use my new razor and paddle strop from Tony Miller :y

Overall, it went smoothly. Here are my issues:

1. I understand while stropping, the spine of the blade should rest on the stop. When I did that, the blade didn't touch the strop, I had to lift the spine a bit and then got a nice sound. I stopped because I didn't want to damage the blade.

2. Sides of face went great! Even used both hands.

3. Had great difficulty getting the upper lip and chin area. I got 2 small cuts and pulled a couple of hairs. Razor kept getting caught in the beard. I assume it's either my angle or I messed up the blade stropping.

Questions:

1. How do you get that lip area (unfortunately, Lynn's DVD didn't help me too much on the lip. I could get the 1st pass with the grain but against it was a little tough and I had to finish with my Fusion

2. Same question only on the chin area. I seemed to get decent results holding it at a 90 degree angle but I don't think that should be proper.

Results of first shave:

Near BBS on sides and neck. Troubled on the lip and chin but overall a great experience and I will definitely be back for more :tu

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Here is what I do with the upper lip. I hold it taunt with my teeth and while holding the blade with both hands slowly go against the grain. Since I have been doing this no need to touch up with a mock3.

The chin is more of trial and error you will get it eventually.
:nj

1 - lip: using my right hand under my nose on the 1/2 of the lip to the right, i use the middle of the blade under the nose. YES, you have to increase the angle here to closer to 90 to get right up under the nose, i use the heel of the blade as i start going out to the right of the lip from under the nose. on the left 1/2 of my lip i use my left hand.. however i do this as kind of an angle movement like " \" as much as i can using the tip of the blade. the remaining tid bit up under the nose on the left 1/2 i get just like the right 1/2 by increasing the angle to more horizontal and getting it up under there.

2: chin: my chin i do all right handed exactly the same motion and angle as i do my right cheek. stretch your chin down with your jaw while your bottom lip is up over your bottom teeth so that it creates a very flat and elongated stretch. easy shave there.. HOWEVER your skin is very thin there, so be gentle or you will get red/small cut if you push too hard

3: stropping: good lord sonny, don't be raising that spine up off the strop or you will definitely be dulling (rounding) the edge. pull the strop tight, this could be problem #1... pull it tight. without moving just lay your razor on the strop and look at it. you will see that it rests on its spine which is elevated due to the thickness and the edge also rests on the strop. this is what should happen and what it should look like while you are stropping. perhaps you are pushing down too hard on the razor on the spine which inturn raises the edge up off the strop. while a little little bit of pressure isn't a problem (people differ here and you will learn what works best for you) ..while learning to strop, you should use NO pressure. simply lay it down, and work on the motion, the razor flip on the spine while keeping the razor laying flat flat on the strop. the pressure you put down on the razor to keep it laying flattly on the strop should be even and in the middle. not spine or edge heavy.

~J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

1. I understand while stropping, the spine of the blade should rest on the stop. When I did that, the blade didn't touch the strop, I had to lift the spine a bit and then got a nice sound. I stopped because I didn't want to damage the blade.

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Why didn't the edge touch the strop? Was something in the way? You shouldn't have to lift the spine to get the edge to touch unless the blade is convex ground (and those are extremely rare, and none are currently being made by dovo).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

3. Had great difficulty getting the upper lip and chin area. I got 2 small cuts and pulled a couple of hairs. Razor kept getting caught in the beard. I assume it's either my angle or I messed up the blade stropping.

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As for the razor getting caught in the beard, that's either deficient prep, wrong angle, or the nonstandard stropping did something funny to the edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

1. How do you get that lip area (unfortunately, Lynn's DVD didn't help me too much on the lip. I could get the 1st pass with the grain but against it was a little tough and I had to finish with my Fusion

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I shave the upper lip by tightening it like Rich, then coming in from the sides on the first pass - this is a cross-grain cut on me but it works well. My upper lip rarely needs a second pass, although sometimes the lower edge of the moustache area gets another pass from the corner of the mouth up towards the corner of my eye (my beard kind of curls a bit in that area, so the first pass doesn't always get it as clean as I like). The middle part of my upper lip (the frustrum?) I shave kind of diagonally down, and the bit just under my nose I shave using the coup de maitre, which is a stroke where you press the blade flat against the nose and then rotate the edge forward while sliding the razor down. It's scary-looking, and tricky the first few times, but it's not that bad once you learn it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

2. Same question only on the chin area. I seemed to get decent results holding it at a 90 degree angle but I don't think that should be proper.

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This one is just gonna take some experimentation. I shave my chin by coming at it from one side on the first pass, then the other side on the second pass. The chin is usually one of the last places that guys master.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

Results of first shave:

Near BBS on sides and neck. Troubled on the lip and chin but overall a great experience and I will definitely be back for more :tu

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Well that's the important bit. As long as survive your first shave without major loss of blood you should consider it a success.

Well, the blade should be just right. It's a Dovo I purchased from Tony and I know he had the edge in proper condition so I am confident it's my lack of experience. I'm using the paddle strop and I was holding it with the top down on the sink ledge so the razor edge not touching the strop may be because I held it funny. I think it might be worth the effort to lay the paddle flat and rest the razor on it to see what it looks like. I know I need to get used to holding a razor too.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I hope I didn't damage the blade too much by my poor stropping, as soon as I realized it wasn't going well, I stopped. We'll see in 2 days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steve

I hope I didn't damage the blade too much by my poor stropping, as soon as I realized it wasn't going well, I stopped. We'll see in 2 days.

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We have all been there. Take it slow and enjoy. You will soon become as addicted as the rest of us.:roflmao

Steve,

It sounds like you were just holding the razor edge up off the paddle. That would be easy to do with the paddle sloping away from you. You just needed to tilt the edge down a bit so it makes contact. Until you get more experience, laying the paddle flat while you strop is probably a good idea.

If that's what you did, I'm sure you didn't harm the edge. Just take it slow and enjoy the process.

Josh

OK, I tried to strop again to see what I was doing wrong and it looks like I had the shaft on the paddle strop, thus raising the blade edge off the strop. If I keep it off the strop, the blade edge and spine rest flat as it should. Now I just need to keep my hand steady.

Thanks everyone for the help

Just keep at it. Soon enough you won't even have to think about it. Kinda like driving stick.

Well, I worked on my technique and I THINK its a little better but certainly needs some more work. My shave tonight was much worse than the first. the blade is definately getting stuck in the chin and lip whiskers. I can get the with the grain pass OK but the against the grain is where it is getting stuck and I'm really getting cut up. I don't know whether that's me or the blade being dulled from my improper stropping. I stropped right before shaving too.

I am learning just how heavy a hand I have. I have to keep reminding myself to ease up on the pressure of the blade on my face.

Let's see, depress clutch - give it the gas - ease off the clutch......grind, stall :(

Steve,

The chin is tough. I'm still getting the hang of it, and every day it gets a little better.

A couple of tips: If you give yourself razor burn, go easy the next day. Razor burn tends to compound on itself, and if you mess with it too much it'll make you sorry you did.

Don't push things on your chin too much. Do what you can, then finish with a DE or cartridge razor.

Don't assume that just because you've gone over it once you're ready for the against the grain pass. Do a couple of with the grain passes for a while.

One thing that's really helping me with my chin is to lower the spine of the razor almost to my skin, which gives a more acute angle to the blade. Then, and you have to be careful with this, draw the razor down and across instead of straight down. If straight down was 0 degrees, you'd be moving the razor at about a 30 degree angle.

This imparts a slight sideways motion to the edge, allowing the hairs to slide slightly over the edge and cut more easily.

If you're not careful, you'll slice yourself good with this. There are a lot of posts that talk about this cutting angle, as well as some good graphics posted somewhere. Read some more about it before you try it.

Keep at it,
Josh

Thanks Josh,

It's interesting how this is really relearning how to shave all over again. From the pressure to the angle to the stropping there are just so many components that, if I let it, would overwhelm me. Certainly an art form.

There is quite a bit to learn. It's a shame we didn't all start when we were first learning to shave, because we could have acquired the skills more gradually.

It all becomes second nature quickly, though. I think within a few months it won't take me any longer than it did to shave with my canned goo and Mock 3--about 10 minutes. I'm only 26, so I figure the time I spend now will pay off for about 40 or 50 more years...

Josh

So, not trying to over analyze things but...

I know my angle and pressure need adjusting and improvement but I was wondering if perhaps I dulled the razor to the point where I ought to run it over the .5 side of my pasted paddle, then restrop.

I feel bad that I'm messing this up so much because Tony provided me with great equipment in perfect condition.

Actually, it works the other way. Restrop, then run it over the pasted paddle. If you've got a 1 micron side on that paddle you may want to use that first, maybe 10 laps, then wipe the spine on a towel, and strop the blade on the towel, then give it 20 laps on the .5 micron side.

Steve,

Unfortunately, trial and error are the only means most of us have to learn this. You can't damage anything too badly; at worst you could nick your strop or dull your razor, but the strop will still work with a nick in it, and the razor can be resharpened.

The pasted strop won't hurt anything, and it could help. Try doing a set number of laps, like the 10-20 combo mparker suggested or maybe 30 if all you have is the .5 micron paste. Then shave. If it's not smooth, give it another set of laps, then shave. Eventually you'll get it to the point where you won't notice any improvement.

Sometimes what's perfect for one person isn't quite sharp enough for someone else. If it's tugging really badly on every stroke then the edge is probably at least part of the problem.

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mparker762

Actually, it works the other way. Restrop, then run it over the pasted paddle. If you've got a 1 micron side on that paddle you may want to use that first, maybe 10 laps, then wipe the spine on a towel, and strop the blade on the towel, then give it 20 laps on the .5 micron side.

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I have a 3, 1 and .5 side. Why strop the blade on the towel? to remove the abrasive? After the 20 laps on the .5 side, would I strop again right before my next shave or skip the strop for that shave and resume for all shaves after that?

Yes, you don't want to cross-contaminate the abrasives and carry some of the coarser abrasive onto the finer side of the paddle. IME most of the abrasive cross-contamination comes from the spine, so you should take extra care to wipe that down before moving on, but some abrasive gets caught on the bevel and fin as well, hence the stropping on a towel.

You strop it on the leather before going to the abrasives in order to get the fin straightened as much as possible so you don't grind it off unnecessarily. But once you've left the paddles you don't need to strop on leather for that shave because it's still stropped from the leather and the abrasive paddles (which are still strops, after all, even with the abrasive paste on them).

I'd give it one last strop on the towel before shaving with it, just to make sure you don't accidentally embed abrasives in your skin, though I'm not sure it really matters since the razors are exfoliating your face anyway, any abrasives that lodge in the skin on the first pass will get scraped off on your against-the-grain pass.

I'm right there with you, Steve...had my third shave today, and while parts of the face go well, the chin and upper lip continue to stymie me as well. I went over my chin 3 times trying to get the technique down and now it feels like I shaved with a blowtorch. I also managed to slice open a scar on my chin which didn't hurt but bled enough to make up for it.

I'm still working on driving stick, too, another skill I am learning at the moment :P

The chin is definately the most difficult
part to shave. Keep it up though and
you will be successful.

Upper lip? Don't know. I have a mustache.



Terry

Thanks for the help everyone! I had some time last night so I followed mparker's advice and I'll shave tomorrow morning. Like Josh said, if it still pulls, I repeat the process until I get it smooth. I also went back over Lynn's video for technique tips and I'll be following one other tip he made.

Take it slowly, maybe just one section of my face at a time until I get used to it. I can do my neck and my sides fairly well so I'll do that and take just one swipe at my chin until I get that angle/motion down comfortably. Then I'll move to taking a 2nd swipe. Repeat until I can get the whole chin well. Then I'll work on the lip area. I'll be shaving for at least 40 more years, Lord willing, so there is no rush. If it takes my 6 months or a year to get a BBS shave, I've got the time.

I'm determined to make this learning process fun :)


BTW - I'm getting more comfortable with my stropping technique. I don't think I'm putting too much pressure on the strop and the spine seems to stay flat, as does the edge. It's no where near perfect but improvement is a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jscott

3: stropping: good lord sonny, don't be raising that spine up off the strop or you will definitely be dulling (rounding) the edge.

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I can attest to this fact.
And if you do this on a pasted strop, the edge disappears like butter on a hot plate. To quote these unforgettable words: 'it seemed like a good idea at the time'.

It took me only > 500 laps on the belgian blue and > 200 laps on the yellow coticule to restore it (nearly there... check out 'seeking advice on honing a dull razor if you want to know the details).

I could have done it with a lot less laps if I had used 1000 grit sandpaper for establishing the bevel, but I didn't have any lying around over the weekend.
And I could use the practise so I decided to be patient...