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Hello,
Today I tried shaving directly off the Coticule, with two razors, a Sheffield, and a Dove. The Sheffield was a very smooth shave, but the dovo was NOT. I was interested to know how anyone else finds there's shave straight from the hones ok or even good.
I realize that the strop is indispensable and I'm not saying anything about it's effectiveness. Just wanted to test the feel from the hone directly.
Nathaniel.
What kind of shave you are going to get off the hone depends on the hone and the razor.
Many members have reported that they get good finish off Coticule on shefield blades so it looks like you have the same experience.
As far as the Dovo, may be it will like different stone as a finisher, or it might need a bit more work.
I get real nice shaves off a Jnat but still prefer to smooth just a bit with a few passes on the strop. I find edges right of my particular stone to be really fine but may be a tad too sharp for me.
I test stones that way so I really get a feel for them when I first start using them,, I do not find this to be a fun experience :( but it gives me a ton of info on the stone and what it can accomplish...
I have tested quite a few people's honing over the years, and one thing that has stood out on most every one except the very worst that need a bevel set, is that I can tweak the edge with stropping much more than many think..
Stropping is really King !!!
I lack a wealth of experience with a range of hones, but what I have learned thus far is that a strop always seems to mellow the blade to some degree. I guess I have a lot more to learn, because I have never thought that my freshly honed blade was too mellow (I have had a few that were too harsh though)
Its really amazing what a trained face and a shave without stropping can tell a honer.
There's a hint to everyone by way of fact that barbers always stropped the razor before use on each customer. It's probably the most universal thing all barbers did.
Yea, but didn't they also carry a barbers hone in their pocket and give a couple licks to sharpen it back up?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I've shaved directly off my coticule on a couple occasions with good results. But my rule is the second shave after honing requires stropping :)
I'm guessing the Sheffield had softer steel and finished a little easier, while the harder German Dovo steel probably needs more laps.
Barbers shaved with the same few razors every day and they didn't stop work to hone during the day or at least as I remember seeing them work I never saw a barber whip out a hone. If there was an issue with a razor they just changed razors and I imagine either honed that night or had them done by someone outside the shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintchase
Glen, when you say 'tweak an edge with stropping', what exactly are you referring to?
Just pressure, or pastes/material?
Thanks :)
I would say it's also the steel. All my razors are 'old', Filly's, Puma's and a Le Grelot 1/4 (the most 'modern' razor that I have). Anything I have owned previously that was a newer razor (e.g. a Dovo, a TI, to name a couple) wouldn't take an edge for very long. It would be smooth at first, but required a LOT of stropping on pastes and a plain strop to get shaving when compared to the older steel razors... Just a thought.
I like the shave straight of the hone, but I don't really know why.
Gentlemen,
In addition to the benefits of stropping after honing noted here, stropping also completes the honing ritual. At least for me, anyway. As every element of wet shaving with the straight razor has its own colorful and often indispensable ritual, not stropping after honing is like walking around with only one sock.
After decades of refinement even DE manufacturers finish with a stropping of leather or similar synthetic material. No matter what the finishing stone may be, leather stropping will improve upon it with a higher level of smoothness and sharpness. It is still a mystery as to exactly how it does this and what is happening at the microscopic level when we strop. Several theories have been proposed on this forum. However, I offer what I think is as good as any of the other theories.
Leather stropping provides microscopic CONVEX microbevel shaping and alignment along the entire edge. The slightest flex in the leather is actually beneficial, creating the coveted convex microbevel shape that Japanese sword makers discovered hundreds of years ago. This is why I prefer a hanging strop over a paddle. This is not rolling the edge, which can occur with too much pressure; rather, at the microscopic level a polishing effect creates it. My experience places the optimal number of laps at between 100-200, depending on the steel, to achieve this effect. Of course, this is only a theory, but I think it is as good as any others that I have read. Here is an illustration that you may need to zoom up to see the stropping effect in red.
Attachment 105436
Hmmmm. Triangles. Very nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gammaray
:OT I wasn't really thinking about saying anything about stropping, as i said in my post that stropping cannot be replaced or left out. :) (I don't actually care)
I have a theory about stropping i've been thinking about: Metal/steel as we all know is a ductile, kind of mold-able substance. Even at a Rockwell hardness of 60 steel is still somewhat ductile on the microscopic level. Imagine looking at whats going on up close, the friction created from from leather (an ideal surface for creating friction on a flat surface) while you strop the friction would draw (almost like smoothing clay with a knife) the metal across the hone scratches and along the very tip of the edge making it more uniform and "smooth". Leather seems to be so ideal because it creates a lot of friction but at the same time provides a uniform surface.
Well that's my two cents about stropping.
Nathaniel
Edit: this would also explain why softer steeled razors would accept the benefits of stropping a little fast. I heard that some people have observed that.
