Mustache and Chin Area: Damn Hard to Master...

Hi folks,

I am now on my 5th shave with my straight razor. Prior to start SR shaving, I had been shaving with a Fat Boy safety razor (and badger brush and real shaving cream or soap) for 3 years already.

As recommended by Lynn, I only did sideburns, cheeks, and neck for my first 3 shaves. Those went pretty well actually. I am able to shave sideburns and cheeks reasonably well, almost BBS, with no irritation or close to no irritation at all, even managing WTG and XTG passes. Neck is going almost as well, including an ATG pass (from south to north), although the neck is less forgiving if I got the wrong blade angle, either resulting in irritation or small nicks.

But the tough spot is the mustache and chin area. I can't believe how HARD that is! I realize I'm not alone there as it seems all SR beginneers struggle quite a lot with this area.

The first time I tried the mustache, I just couldn't get it done. The blade was pulling like crazy, not even cutting whiskers. I stopped right there and switch to the DE. Then I watched some more videos and realized my angle was far too low: a lot of people seems to start out with a much greater angle on the stache when comparing with cheeks (like 45 degrees or more on the stache). However the trick here is to have just enough angle as having too much a large angle scrapes the skin more than cutting whiskers. The chin is no more easier, and the curves makes it a tough process. Today was my first shave of this whole area. Results were: lots of stubble left, and a case of real bad razor burn like I haven't had since when I started with a safety razor a while back.

Lessons learned:

A) I think my biggest problem is that since I'm slow, by the time I get to the stache and chin, the lather is all dried and I have no lubrication to help the razor. I think I will need to wipe out the dried lather, wet the skin thoroughly again, and reapply lather as if I'm just starting the shave.

B) I also need to continue experimenting with angles: the angle the blade has can make a dramatic difference in comfort and smoothness of shaving. It is not always obvious which angle is best depending where you are on your face. I guess I have no other choice than experimenting, stepping back and repositioning when I realize what I'm doing is just not working.

C) Handling the razor: I also realized that keeping the razor straight (with the scales in line with the blade) makes it much easier in some places where having the scales perpendicular to the blade makes you bump in your neck, the head or whatever. I was surprised when I noticed that, I thought you had to keep the blade always perpendicular to the scales. Not so.

D) Practice and experience makes perfect. I think it will take me months to get proficient enough with a SR to have a close, comfortable shave, with no nicks and no irritation. This way of shaving requires tremendous patience and concentration. You can't rush your learning there, or your face will let you know. It actually took me months to develop the necessary ability to shave with a DE with no irritation and BBS quality. I guess straight razor shaving is no different. I need to hang on tight for the long haul on this if I am to be successful. Quick results won't happen.

If it is any help... and take this with a grain of salt as I rarely shave off the mustache. I found that curling the lip under your teeth is sufficient to stretch the skin. I also don't use a straight north to south in that area. I start at the middle of the mustache and work diagonally down toward the edge of the lip on one side and then middle diagonally down to the other edge of the lip. Both short quick strokes.

Those areas are the most difficult. As I recall I didn't even attempt the chin especially the very bottom and underside for a couple months of daily shaving and it took longer than that to really be comfortable with that maneuver.

You simply need to develop a great deal of facility with the razor to be able to shave those areas. I know of no secrets to tell you. it's just practice, practice, practice. One day you will just do it and think hey what just happened here?

A goat tee solves the problem for me :)

I cheat on the mustache area as I have one. The chin though is still tough to do. I stretch the skin by curling my lower lip over my teeth to help with that. You have to constantly be adjusting your angle as you go and I do small strips like peeling a potatoe when going vertically. Going XTG on the chin I do so diagonally and then sub another diagonal pass going the other way instead of going ATG in that area. I am slow too so I may have to relather an area that has dried out.

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZeroCool

A goat tee solves the problem for me :)

---

That's cheating ! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyrateknight

If it is any help... and take this with a grain of salt as I rarely shave off the mustache. I found that curling the lip under your teeth is sufficient to stretch the skin. I also don't use a straight north to south in that area. I start at the middle of the mustache and work diagonally down toward the edge of the lip on one side and then middle diagonally down to the other edge of the lip. Both short quick strokes.

---

Good idea, will try going diagonal instead of straight down.

First, there are no rules… you can and should re-lather as much as needed, the whole point of lather is to keep the whiskers wet. Try a drop of Glycerin in your soap. Most drugstores carry it, around $6. It will make your lather thicker and last longer, just one drop.

Second, try a 2 hand grip, regular grip with the razor hand and hold the tip with the other hand, thumb and fore finger.

Third, no such thing as too low of an angle, you can lay the blade flat on your lips and go straight up, to do the stash.

Forth, your razor may not be sharp enough, have it pro honed and practice stropping. Slow & steady.

I'm only just now getting better in those areas. I still do a little final finishing touches with a D.E.

For the upper lip I curl my lip over the teeth as mentioned but I hold the blade in place and let the moving lip do the shaving just under the nose.

I keep both areas lathered very well and thicker than some of the other areas.

On the lower lip/chin area I keep the angle shallow and go diagonally as mentioned especially on the first pass.

If I nick myself I'll skip a day or two with the straight razor and use just a D.E. to allow for the skin to be healed as I'm being kind of rough on the chin area due to inexperience anyway.

Having too great an angle just rubs your skin and irritates it without really removing much stubble.

Once you have a day or two with good results in those areas it's a good feeling and it makes further progress much easier.

They can be hard when you're just starting out. Try short buffing type strokes. That worked for me until my technique got better.

With all your tips I am making significant progress. I am doing all my mustache and chin area with minimal razor burn - and this morning I found out why I still have some residual razor burn left: my XTG pass is actually almost an ATG pass since my beard is growing east to west. This means I will go in the same way of the whiskers and my XTG pass will be less irritating. In any case, I'm finding that a SR is doing such a close job than a WTG and XTG is giving me a very close shave and may not require yet an ATG.

Can't say however I am not leaving some light stubble here and there but I am confident at this point it is just a question of practice makes perfect.

I think I'm well on my way to master this art. My big weakness us that I'm still trying to build too much speed and this is not a good idea. I'm always reminding me to slow it down and concentrate on the learning rather than beating the clock...

I like your analysis. I'm over a month along now, and I'm just now getting to the point that I can evaluate the edge (six-razor rotation actually makes for more to learn) on the fly so that by the time I get to the moustache and chin, I've got the feel for how fast is an optimal stroke for that edge. A GOOD edge, especially at the toe of the blade is critical for me to get the moustache area. I also use the diagonal stroke from the center, *almost* toward the corner of the lips, after one vertical stroke in the middle. I also find that even with a necessarily steeper angle there after lifting the nose, it helps to go VERY light. When that doesn't work, it's probably because my honing isn't quite there yet, and it's just not sharp enough. I've pulled off a good shave there, four or five times really well now, so I'm better able to immediately figure out if it's me or the blade. My sense is that after you really get it right once, you'll be able to duplicate that success.

For the chin, I just go over it the same way I used to with a cartridge razor. About the same speed, too, except that I do an XTG/diagonal stroke on each side, an ATG underneath as part of my 2nd pass (which is all ATG) and sometimes two WTG passes over the front, using the center of the blade.

As for aligning the blade with the scales, I've tried using the left hand on the left side, but it's really awkward for me and looking in the mirror really disoriented me when I tried that. After about five tries and numerous nasty cuts (still healing), I gave up. I find that if I just straighten the razor out and reach across with the right hand, it's just fine, except for the entire front of the chin, which I do all "right-sided".

As for soap drying up, have you tried some of the brush shaving creams from TOBS, Truefitt & Hill or Trumper? I find that they don't dry like the soaps and the lather is excellent. I just bought a bunch of samples from all of them and have been using a different scent every day (see SOTD), but the cream lathers have all been consistent, really load up the brush well and don't dry my skin as much.

Nothing like a little success to make you feel good, congrats on the progress. When shaving I use short strokes and when I move over I overlap the last run of strokes a bit. Virtually no part of a face is a flat plane so overlapping helps me to not leave the odd stray stubble hanging about.

Bob

best thing to do, go SLOW and STEADY...more experience, less CUTS...GOOD lUCK!

You are getting some excellent points from the group...what worked for me:

1. A drop dead perfect edge....I was about 25-30 shaves in and I bought a razor from a member. With that fantastic edge and having had some practice I had a break-out shave...it just came together.

2. Keep in mind it takes closer to 100 shaves to get all of it working. Sounds like you are doing very well, take your time...

3. 75 years ago this would have been a skill that a family member would have coached you on. We are trying to rebuild that skill set using a web page and you-tube. It's a razor...a strait razor...and you are teaching yourself how to use it with remote coaching....

4. Right after great blade is great skin tension. Because great skin tension takes in to account the direction of the growth - you have to work out the position that works for you, for your beard. Don't get discouraged if what works on the demo of the the day does not work for you.

5. I've had a mustache for 40 years this past November (it's always Movember for me) so I can't offer any upper lip tips...

6. Try wiping the lather off on a towel or tissue. The sink rinse can slow the process and you loose some of the rhythm. Not to mention you can dink the edge on the faucet. In the old days they would strop off the lather on a towel placed on the customers shoulder or close by. This also keeps excess water off of your hands and the razor.

I remember watching some of the demos and thinking "there is no way that I am ever going to be able to pull that stroke/pass/maneuver off" I would actually cringe watching some of them...and then one day you do it...and it makes your day.

Good shaving!

I continue to make progress - I shave everyday so I have plenty opportunities of learning :)

I still need to use the DE on the 3rd pass, especially for the jaw line of the chin, but I do full face shaving wih the str8 on my first 2 passes. I have decided to forget about speed as I focus exlusively on slow, steady, precise eye-hand coordination to get optimal pressure and blade angle. I'm finding that I'll need to wake up 15 min. earlier to make up the time in my morning schedule because I'm too slow right now :p But whatever it takes. I had to go through the same learning curve when I first learned to shave with a DE: early on, I tried to go too fast too soon and I went backwards big time, with less comfortable shaves. When you try to build up speed prior to being ready, you just unlearn and get into sloppy, bad habits.

Your hints and tips are really helping me. I have even wrote down a couple of them on a Post-it that I stick on the bathroom's mirror so I remember them when I'm shaving. My wife thinks I'm nuts but I know you guys recognize my symptoms as a true, dedicated beginner str8 shaver :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furcifer

As for soap drying up, have you tried some of the brush shaving creams from TOBS, Truefitt & Hill or Trumper? I find that they don't dry like the soaps and the lather is excellent. I just bought a bunch of samples from all of them and have been using a different scent every day (see SOTD), but the cream lathers have all been consistent, really load up the brush well and don't dry my skin as much.

---

I am using at the moment Truefitt & Hill's 1805, Trafalgar, Ultimate Comfort. Also I have some Geo Trumpers Sandalwood left. They are superior creams but they will dry out at some point. Adding glycerine as suggested helped me and I don't hesitate now to relather regularly during the shave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tzar

I continue to make progress - I shave everyday so I have plenty opportunities of learning :)

I am using at the moment Truefitt & Hill's 1805, Trafalgar, Ultimate Comfort. Also I have some Geo Trumpers Sandalwood left. They are superior creams but they will dry out at some point. Adding glycerine as suggested helped me and I don't hesitate now to relather regularly during the shave.

---

Hi Tzar - I'm only 30 days' in, but found the same thing as you with the soap drying out before I got to the harder moustache and chin areas, which I had left to last (so had to relather etc). It occurred to me that I was tackling the hardest two areas, with the worst prep (dry, old lather, cooling face etc). The next few shaves, I did the moustache first and then the whole chin, before tackling the rest. I found the shaving of both these areas MUCH easier and smoother, which has helped me progress these two areas a lot quicker.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KCC088

Hi Tzar - I'm only 30 days' in, but found the same thing as you with the soap drying out before I got to the harder moustache and chin areas, which I had left to last (so had to relather etc). It occurred to me that I was tackling the hardest two areas, with the worst prep (dry, old lather, cooling face etc). The next few shaves, I did the moustache first and then the whole chin, before tackling the rest. I found the shaving of both these areas MUCH easier and smoother, which has helped me progress these two areas a lot quicker.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

---

Tried your advice this morning to start with mustache and chin area, and very glad I did. No razor burn or irritation at all! I had to relather for cheeks and neck, but those areas aren't a problem so it went as usual after I relathered. Thanks for the tip!

I'm not going to try a full ATG 3rd pass for now though. I will perfect my strokes for WTG and XTG to leave as less stubble as possible everywhere and when the first 2 passes will feel very comfortable with the str8, going almost by instinct and with enough speed, I'll try ATG.